Things I do

Nothing ground breaking here.

-Foliar during veg. Fish hydro, kelp extract, alfalfa/kelp tea strained, compost tea. Whatever I've got handy. Usually there is some kelp in there. Once a week, unless I forget. I've heard this helps promote lateral branching, or tighter nodes, or helps cloning success. I've not done detailed side-by-sides, but the "eye test" tells me all these things are true. I also spray clones about 1 week after I cut them.

-Alfalfa/Kelp. 5 gal bucket, 1 cup alfalfa, 1 cup kelp meal. Then water down 4 or 3 to 1 for use. Enzymes, auxins, growth hormones, micro nutrients. This stuff is too complicated for me to keep straight. All I know is that all those things work together, and that you need them all present together to work best. Even if I grew hydro style, I would spray this mixture on. Everything is in there.

-Pruning. No controversy intended! I top around the 4th node or so. Later, I cut clones from the bottom. Then I clean up whatever looks scruffy. Usually I clip off a lower leaf or 2. You could almost say I lollipop. But then I re-pot into a bigger container of course. Just "bury" the plant deep, up to the "new lowest" growth. This way the stems are buried in the container, and my plants are still low and wide.

-Compost/EWC Tea. 5 gal bucket, 1and 1/2 cups compost/EWC, 1teaspoon molasses, 1/2 teaspoon kelp, 1/4 teaspoon fish hydro. Use this after re-potting and dump the leftovers on any soil I have laying around. Also, if there is any kind of "problem." If there is an accident(carelessness) like the soil dries out, or plants get burned by PSG or something I'll use the tea to "jump start" the microbes again.

-Top dress. Mix 10 cups if Compost or EWC, 1 cup crab shell, 1 cup kelp meal. Let this cook for a month or two. Top dress with a cup or 2 about half way through flower.

-2nd Harvest. Harvest the top half when its ready. Let the lower stuff fatten up for a couple weeks before you take plants all the way down.

Thanks to all the helpful people who posted all these tips for me to collect over the years.

youraveragehorticulturist said:

Nothing ground breaking here.

-Foliar during veg. Fish hydro, kelp extract, alfalfa/kelp tea strained, compost tea. Whatever I've got handy. Usually there is some kelp in there. Once a week, unless I forget. I've heard this helps promote lateral branching, or tighter nodes, or helps cloning success. I've not done detailed side-by-sides, but the "eye test" tells me all these things are true. I also spray clones about 1 week after I cut them.

-Alfalfa/Kelp. 5 gal bucket, 1 cup alfalfa, 1 cup kelp meal. Then water down 4 or 3 to 1 for use. Enzymes, auxins, growth hormones, micro nutrients. This stuff is too complicated for me to keep straight. All I know is that all those things work together, and that you need them all present together to work best. Even if I grew hydro style, I would spray this mixture on. Everything is in there.

-Pruning. No controversy intended! I top around the 4th node or so. Later, I cut clones from the bottom. Then I clean up whatever looks scruffy. Usually I clip off a lower leaf or 2. You could almost say I lollipop. But then I re-pot into a bigger container of course. Just "bury" the plant deep, up to the "new lowest" growth. This way the stems are buried in the container, and my plants are still low and wide.

-Compost/EWC Tea. 5 gal bucket, 1and 1/2 cups compost/EWC, 1teaspoon molasses, 1/2 teaspoon kelp, 1/4 teaspoon fish hydro. Use this after re-potting and dump the leftovers on any soil I have laying around. Also, if there is any kind of "problem." If there is an accident(carelessness) like the soil dries out, or plants get burned by PSG or something I'll use the tea to "jump start" the microbes again.

-Top dress. Mix 10 cups if Compost or EWC, 1 cup crab shell, 1 cup kelp meal. Let this cook for a month or two. Top dress with a cup or 2 about half way through flower.

-2nd Harvest. Harvest the top half when its ready. Let the lower stuff fatten up for a couple weeks before you take plants all the way down.

Thanks to all the helpful people who posted all these tips for me to collect over the years.

Click to expand...

very well said, good job.
Whats in your soil? What type of pots, lights?
I always am curious what the other organic guys are using for lights, I am pondering LEDs in the future...

Soil-
The base is mostly, Peat/Perlite/EWC. But there is also some vermiculite, coco coir, lava rocks and mushroom compost in there too. I've added different stuff over time. A bag or two of Roots Organic. Coco chips that were once used as mulch.

For nutes, Alfalfa, crab meal and kelp meal. Lately I've added fish meal and fish bone meal. I'm trying to get some neem meal, but so far no luck. In the past I've used blood and bone meal, but I've kinda been peer-pressured out of it. Same for bat guano. I used to mix it in, and I still have some laying around. Now I just mix it in water if I want to use it.

In the past I've kinda slacked on the minerals. I used to add like 1/2 cup of azomite. Over the last couple years I've added greensand, rock phosphate, and finally glacial dust. But I'm still a little behind the 4 cups/ cubic foot that people recommend these days.

I always have some dirt in use, some used stuff piling up, some dirt ready to go, and usually a batch cooking. Over time peat breaks down, old roots and top dresses build up, perlite floats away, etc. I'm always tinkering around, adding stuff, making the mix fluffier or whatever. It's hard to say exactly whats in there at any point.

I do believe you can start out with pretty basic, cheap and easy soil. There are lots of all-in-one products like Espoma stuff you can start out with. Then add to your soil as you learn more and acquire more stuff.

I would totally recommend Espoma Bio Tone. Its an all-in-one (4-3-3) granular organic fertilizer with mycos and lacto bacteria. In the past I've mixed it in my soil. Other times I've put a tablespoon into my compost teas. I've also used 1 cup in 5 gallons of water and used it to for nutes for the tomatoes and peppers outside.

Pots-
I started with small plastic pots. Over time I've gotten into bigger pots and then fabric pots, and the bigger fabric pots. In general bigger is better! I don't do everything the same, all the time, but I like at least a 5 gal pot. Longer veg, go 7 gal. My latest are 10gal smart pots. I'm sure next year I'll be up to 12 gallons.

Lights-
600 watt adjustable digital. MH for veg. HPS for flower. Sometimes I'll do gimmicky stuff like MH for the first 2 weeks of flower to "reduce stretch" or the last 2 weeks of flower to "increase quality and density." I don't know if this stuff works or not, and usually I don't mess with it. The 600 watt digi's may not be the "best" lights, but they are so versatile I have stuck with them.

I do totally believe in replacing bulbs every 6 months or so. Some guys say use them till they burn out, but I feel that they degrade after awhile. Like HPS bulbs produce less green over time, so plants stretch more under old HPS bulbs. Or old bulbs mean less weight. I don't have any side-by-sides, or citations to back this up. I just "feel" it. And if I can sleep better for the price of a couple bulbs, I'm ok with it.

youraveragehorticulturist said:

Soil-
The base is mostly, Peat/Perlite/EWC. But there is also some vermiculite, coco coir, lava rocks and mushroom compost in there too. I've added different stuff over time. A bag or two of Roots Organic. Coco chips that were once used as mulch.

For nutes, Alfalfa, crab meal and kelp meal. Lately I've added fish meal and fish bone meal. I'm trying to get some neem meal, but so far no luck. In the past I've used blood and bone meal, but I've kinda been peer-pressured out of it. Same for bat guano. I used to mix it in, and I still have some laying around. Now I just mix it in water if I want to use it.
.

Click to expand...

hey man, if you are having good results with blood and bone meal, don't listen to us. do what works for YOU.
I just know a lil about BSE, and it freaks me out, not to mention once you get your mix REALLY dialed in, it's hard to stray from it.
that's why there is so much disagreement/cock-measuring going on, we all have our methods that all generally work.
Oh, and I like your method for topdressing, maybe add a speck of neem meal in there, once you find the stuff, that is.

Peer pressured was just kind of a joke. I started with bone meal and blood meal because before I knew much they were the easiest things to find.

I think my first mix was like 1 bag "Organic Soil" from Wal-Mart, 1 Bag Miracle Grow Organic Choice, a few cups of blood/bone/kelp meal. Then I discovered Epsoma granular ferts, bales of Pro-Mix, crab shell, and everything else. Every year it seems like more and more stuff is available and easier and easier to get. Except for neem meal! There must be like a nation-wide run on this stuff.

Some time way back someone posted a Neptune's Harvest feeding schedule. I checked it out because I love all their stuff. The schedule mentioned top dressing with crab shell and kelp meal so I gave it a try. I guess I used to much, or the stuff broke down too hot, because it burned the hell outta my plants. Since then I've let the EWC kinda compost the crab/kelp for me. Its worked much better.

youraveragehorticulturist said:

Top dress. Mix 10 cups if Compost or EWC, 1 cup crab shell, 1 cup kelp meal. Let this cook for a month or two. Top dress with a cup or 2 about half way through flower.

Click to expand...

Thanks for all the info brotha man, wish we had more posts like these. Let me ask you, when making your top dress, do you mix in any peat with the ewc/crab/kelp meal?

Or do you just mix it together and water it?

I usually don't mix ant peat in there, but I don't see it being a problem. In fact, it would probably help "fluff up" the mixture a little.

You could probably add some peat, vermiculite, or coco chips or even coir, to make more of a moisture retaining, mulchy top layer.

start a journal

this really was a good thread ,nice change from all the other bullshit on here at times everyone wont's to out talk the person posting thread,but hey man you can get that neem cake from kelp4less and any other thing you need,hope this helps i use them because they have everything all in one place,they even have a starter pack if you are new to organics .

im wit

Diabolical666 said:

start a journal

Click to expand...

h my girl you would write a good one

I'm glad people enjoyed the thread.

I need to spend more time in the journal section. There is probably a lot to learn in there.

Kelp4less looks awesome! I usually just go to the nursery or Amazon for stuff, just out of habit. Great(unbelievable) selection! Free shipping! Just when I thought I was getting close to having everything I needed! Thanks for the heads up.

yeah its all in one place

all in one place, and you can select how much of each you want, instead of browsing through different sellers looking for the specific size box you need.

Keeping with the title...

I put lava rocks in the bottom of my pots. I know this means a little less room in the pots, but it seems like better air flow or something for the roots. When I dump old pots, the roots are absolutely matted around the lava rock. To me that means the hole bottom of the pot can breathe, not just the area around a couple drain holes.

youraveragehorticulturist said:

all in one place, and you can select how much of each you want, instead of browsing through different sellers looking for the specific size box you need.

Keeping with the title...

I put lava rocks in the bottom of my pots. I know this means a little less room in the pots, but it seems like better air flow or something for the roots. When I dump old pots, the roots are absolutely matted around the lava rock. To me that means the hole bottom of the pot can breathe, not just the area around a couple drain holes.

Click to expand...

One of my favorite things to put at the bottom of a container is that coco hair stuff they use in planters, it's just coarse coco wool and it works insane. I have some in my no-tills and it works nicely to kinda keep the soil from compacting over time

Great tip. That sounds even better than the rocks! Lighter and easier to fish out at the end. I like these little techniques/tricks that don't often come up in "regular" threads.

-I use a little coffee peculator to strain liquids before I put them in my sprayer. $3 at Goodwill! Easy to use, really effective and easy to clean.

youraveragehorticulturist said:

Nothing ground breaking here.

-Foliar during veg. Fish hydro, kelp extract, alfalfa/kelp tea strained, compost tea. Whatever I've got handy. Usually there is some kelp in there. Once a week, unless I forget. I've heard this helps promote lateral branching, or tighter nodes, or helps cloning success. I've not done detailed side-by-sides, but the "eye test" tells me all these things are true. I also spray clones about 1 week after I cut them.

-Alfalfa/Kelp. 5 gal bucket, 1 cup alfalfa, 1 cup kelp meal. Then water down 4 or 3 to 1 for use. Enzymes, auxins, growth hormones, micro nutrients. This stuff is too complicated for me to keep straight. All I know is that all those things work together, and that you need them all present together to work best. Even if I grew hydro style, I would spray this mixture on. Everything is in there.

-Pruning. No controversy intended! I top around the 4th node or so. Later, I cut clones from the bottom. Then I clean up whatever looks scruffy. Usually I clip off a lower leaf or 2. You could almost say I lollipop. But then I re-pot into a bigger container of course. Just "bury" the plant deep, up to the "new lowest" growth. This way the stems are buried in the container, and my plants are still low and wide.

-Compost/EWC Tea. 5 gal bucket, 1and 1/2 cups compost/EWC, 1teaspoon molasses, 1/2 teaspoon kelp, 1/4 teaspoon fish hydro. Use this after re-potting and dump the leftovers on any soil I have laying around. Also, if there is any kind of "problem." If there is an accident(carelessness) like the soil dries out, or plants get burned by PSG or something I'll use the tea to "jump start" the microbes again.

-Top dress. Mix 10 cups if Compost or EWC, 1 cup crab shell, 1 cup kelp meal. Let this cook for a month or two. Top dress with a cup or 2 about half way through flower.

-2nd Harvest. Harvest the top half when its ready. Let the lower stuff fatten up for a couple weeks before you take plants all the way down.

Thanks to all the helpful people who posted all these tips for me to collect over the years.

Click to expand...

Would love to see some lollipopish pics, man. Sounds similar to my steez.

You don't find your smoke is warm/hot at all from topdressing with EWC so late? That's fantastic, mon..

As for your theory, you're right about the spacing .. It's the triacantanol in the alfalfa that helps the nodal spacing.. Great stuff.

Keep up the nice solid, organic work

Tes

Don-
I haven't noticed any issues from the EWC top dress. One time years ago, before I started with the top dressing I used a bunch of fish and seaweed fertilizer and molasses for Cal/Mag and micro nutrients. I guess I overdid it because the bud was almost "peppery" or spicy. I swear it wasn't just my imagination, and I know kinda what you mean.

I started messing with the top dress to get a more gradual, less extreme release of nutrients. As long as you wait till the castings mixture to smell earthy, and not like the Red Lobster dumpster, they don't cause any problems.