Think ive been led astray

Michael Huntherz said:

But then, do you run the same strain (clone-only to match Pheno) under HID with Air Conditioning vs. the same kwh in High-efficiency COB panels with AC too? Or leave the AC off for both? I'm not sure a direct comparison is possible.

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(A 20k BTU AC unit running at the same setting as used for HID might bring temps below optimal when running COBs in a well-ventilated space, and different growing media and techniques might give further variation under given temp and RH conditions than others)

Abiqua said:

I think we have a different idea on metrics should be measured...I don't have the word comparison in mine.

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Too many variables for repeatable results. I know people with multi million dollar warehouse grows that cannot replicate results identically and I am sure we don't have that invested or the type knowledge they have , I mean these people are profession pot farmers...they have a degree in horticulture..farming weed for years...

Yodaweed said:

Too many variables for repeatable results. I know people with multi million dollar warehouse grows that cannot replicate results identically and I am sure we don't have that invested or the type knowledge they have , I mean these people are profession pot farmers...they have a degree in horticulture..farming weed for years...

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You have no critical thinking ability. Can't imagine something you don't have. Can't even open your mind and think of how or why something is what it is. It's sad really.

No one would use one grow to talk about G/KWH. It would be accumulation of many growers, strains, techniques that all add up to a viable and general measurement that is valid for "most" siterations as a guideline. There will always be an acception or two...those are called out liars in the real world.
G/KWH from seed to harvest is the most detailed and accurate way to measure lighting input:biomass output.

Greengenes707 said:

You have no critical thinking ability. Can't imagine something you don't have. Can't even open your mind and think of how or why something is what it is. It's sad really.

No one would use one grow to talk about G/KWH. It would be accumulation of many growers, strains, techniques that all add up to a viable and general measurement that is valid for "most" siterations as a guideline. There will always be an acception or two...those are called out liars in the real world.
G/KWH from seed to harvest is the most detailed and accurate way to measure lighting input:biomass output.

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Hardly any growers are using seed to harvest...you are really in the stone age we all grow clones of the best seeds...

Yodaweed said:

Hardly any growers are using seed to harvest...you are really in the stone age we all grow clones of the best seeds...

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yep all those online seed shops going out of business lol do you actually read the crap you type

Yodaweed said:

Hardly any growers are using seed to harvest...you are really in the stone age we all grow clones of the best seeds...

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Again...no critical thinking.
Seed to harvest is an expression...meaning start to finish. If you were lisensed...or ever been to Colorado, Washington, CA you might have heard it. But again...you only can think from your little bubble.

Your a tool

When someone says they are going to "take a leak"...do you think that their penis is actually leaking???

Greengenes707 said:

Again...no critical thinking.
Seed to harvest is an expression...meaning start to finish. If you were lisensed...or ever been to Colorado, Washington, CA you might have heard it. But again...you only can think from your little bubble.

Your a tool

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Someone will be butthurt I sense hmmmm. Lmao just joking I couldn't resist.

What The Fuck Man My PENIS Isn't Leaking When I'm Dribbling Down The Side Of My Leg What The Fuck Man!!!!!!!!!!!

The Dawg said:

What The Fuck Man My PENIS Isn't Leaking When I'm Dribbling Down The Side Of My Leg What The Fuck Man!!!!!!!!!!!

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But Who Was Phone?

Yodaweed said:

Too many variables for repeatable results. I know people with multi million dollar warehouse grows that cannot replicate results identically and I am sure we don't have that invested or the type knowledge they have , I mean these people are profession pot farmers...they have a degree in horticulture..farming weed for years...

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I would like measurement standard to reflect as "regenerating" results, not "replicating" results...Repeatability is fine is the absence of data but not necessarily the goal imho, when trying to garner how much biomass is being produced per area/ over time....Repeatability will show in a non-biased data set if it exists, why the need to go looking for it?

Greengenes707 said:

Again...no critical thinking.
Seed to harvest is an expression...meaning start to finish. If you were lisensed...or ever been to Colorado, Washington, CA you might have heard it. But again...you only can think from your little bubble.

Your a tool

When someone says they are going to "take a leak"...do you think that their penis is actually leaking???

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You are a fool I live in Colorado. I been to some of the largest grow facilities in the state, rec and medical. Can you say the same?

Greengenes707 said:

Apache at600 vs SK 400

Apache at600
View attachment 3511322 View attachment 3511323

SK 400+
View attachment 3511324 View attachment 3511325
There is no comparison. Apache's don't cost $2400...who pays full msrp for anything in life.
But what do I know about sacking up and buying things to test...
View attachment 3511326


If any commercial ops(any more I should say) want PLC lights, they can be ETL'ed in 2 week plus some $$$. Otherwise CE will do. Hell...if the order is big enough they will fully build out a design and get it approved. ETL, and UL both have "field certs" for small production/one time builds. Apache has done it...and I'm sure many other companies would too. One full operation can be as many lights as all the little closet growers all year. Almost any company would be happy to satisfy one big operation then bust their ass for one and two light sales...real legit grow operations(100-1500 1000w hps) are definitely worth.


NOTE: the SK 400+ uses (40) MK-R's with (14)630 xpe2's and (2) xpe 660's. They used to drive the xbd's at 350ma...not sure on these.
https://instagram.com/p/62_4dShrrG/?taken-by=maryjanewines

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Is this pic from the numbers you posted on inda-gro before or have you done new readings?
I am curious on other distances - maybe 12" and 24" from canopy

Yodaweed said:

You are a fool I live in Colorado. I been to some of the largest grow facilities in the state, rec and medical. Can you say the same?

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I know that wasn't aimed at me and no I honestly can say I haven't even been to CO. I can day that I do a contractors work that had dinner several grow houses there and he filled me in on every aspect of the process. Like I said the HVAC guys gouge the fuck out of the commercial growers. So you are missing most of the point. You keep talking about light cost only. You never mention reflector degradation HVAC build out cost or labor involved in changing all these things out. That's called selective thinking my friend because it has been brought up to you few times and you still haven't acknowledged the FACTS.

I do love watching some internet drama, and don't really have a dog in the fight, but I have to agree, there's a lot of data that gets disregarded.

In a year conversations like this will be nonexistent because COBs will be cheaper and there will be enough grow journals out there no one will be able to argue about it any more. You'll see in two years or less many commercial operations switching out their HID systems. I am saying this as a prediction and I'm not offering evidence. I'm just perceptive, like The Penguin on Gotham, but slightly less stabby. I've been right about dozens of major technology trends for 20 years now, so I don't give a rip if anyone agrees or not. Time will tell.

Michael Huntherz said:

In a year conversations like this will be nonexistent because COBs will be cheaper QUOTE]

.

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pricing of cobs from cree is following normal high tech trends for the latest and greatest chips.
Look at pricing between cxb3590, cxb3070 and the CXAs.
Look at how much cheaper the older smaller LES Crees are and especially the lower bins.

cost for the latest greatest top bin cree large les chip can't really be used for a cost comparison to other lighting types, since cree is milking the price where they can.

point is prices of cree cobs will come down just like all the other semiconductors.

Michael Huntherz said:

Other than fucking up the quote tag, did you have a point to make there?

I see you pointed out that Cree is following normal tech trends in pricing, then pointed out some more patently obvious details about that None of which adds to anything I said, nor does it obviate any of it.

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fixed the post, I was agreeing with you to emphasize your point, since some diehard trolls still don't get it.

PurpleBuz said:

fixed the post, I was agreeing with you to emphasize your point, since some diehard trolls still don't get it.

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Oh, ok, I see what you're saying...no hate brudda

Stephenj37826 said:

I know that wasn't aimed at me and no I honestly can say I haven't even been to CO. I can day that I do a contractors work that had dinner several grow houses there and he filled me in on every aspect of the process. Like I said the HVAC guys gouge the fuck out of the commercial growers. So you are missing most of the point. You keep talking about light cost only. You never mention reflector degradation HVAC build out cost or labor involved in changing all these things out. That's called selective thinking my friend because it has been brought up to you few times and you still haven't acknowledged the FACTS.

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You aren't kidding about HVAC guys, mine cost 7 grand to run my AC system to my grow and a 4.5 ton A/C unit.

Surprisingly enough, the SKs aren't just cool white high bays. They're MOSTLY MK-R 4000k whites but they also have some red and amber XP-E and XP-E2s. Why they added the ambers I don't know, I guess because it's a single spike at 600 nm which is the low red zone. The reds are regular red and photo red. The effect of the added red/amber LEDs appears to be a lowered CCT of 3643, as opposed to the 4000 of the whites. You can view the pdf with all the test data on the products page of their website. So I guess technically they can call it a grow light with a custom spectrum, by adding those reds and ambers. My guess is that simply getting a warm white high bay would have similar results though, since the spectral distribution of the SK is so close to that of warm white LEDs that you couldn't tell them apart if they weren't labeled. Could have saved themselves some trougnle by just using warm white high bays but I gues they wanted to make their lights look somehow special.

Wow, I have just read this whole thread and I think my eyes are bleeding. I would like to offer a "virtual" hug to anyone who maybe in need.
Perhaps we could start a support group loosely based on popular 12 step programs. I realise this reply has no bearing on the points discussed. I just felt like I needed reach out and you know...share