thinking of buying this soil coots mix no till

is it worth it someone with knowledge of no till check this out please
http://westernmass.craigslist.org/grq/5962376005.html
only thing weird I see is the lobster compost mixed with earthworm casting. They said they could do like 15 a cubic foot for me.

What other things do I need with this soil like Ill have to make tea and stuff?

frankslan said:

is it worth it someone with knowledge of no till check this out please
http://westernmass.craigslist.org/grq/5962376005.html
only thing weird I see is the lobster compost mixed with earthworm casting. They said they could do like 15 a cubic foot for me.

What other things do I need with this soil like Ill have to make tea and stuff?

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This is coots mix almost to the letter. He recommends any high quality local compost for the compost 1/3. A lot of people mix it up. I'm in the process of making 12, 40 gallon no tills right now and Tuesday I'm going to get a 1/2 yard of grade a worm castings and a 1/2 yard of garden compost which contains leaf mould, rabbit and poultry manure, composted fruit and veggies along with all other sorts of goodie. NW red worms in Vancouver Washington was recommended by coots before and it's only 45 minutes from where I am. I've been getting it the last year and a half from him and i think the diversity of compost gives it a leg up. It's also 50 a yard instead of 300 for grade a worm castings.

Huge plus about lobster compost is that lobster shells have high levels of chitin in them and as bacteria eat chitin it makes an enzyme that forces the plant to beef up its defenses against microbial attacks. Which in turn helps the plant fight off not only bad microbes but also pests both above and below soil. My guess is because the lobster has been composted it will speed up the process and make your plants uptake the chitosan faster than the intact crab meal.

The mineral mix has changed over the years but the most recent ones I've seen say that basalt is most important of rock dusts.

Ask them where to buy worms. They will probably either make the castings them selves and have worms for sale or be able to connect you with their worm guy. From there, there is a lot of approaches. There's some awesome No til threads in the first page or so of the orgabics section and you can see what people's amending/supplementing/IPM schedules and recipes look like. This is for an indoor from in assuming? I lived in the NE for 6 years and my family had a house in Chatham and I know up there we could get good organic amendments pretty easily. You could make your own for cheaper than that I'd imagine, but time is money and only you can put a price on your time. Sorry for the pages. Smoking sour too late at night can get going. Stay safe and happy farming

I just mixed my first no till container up and this mix is very similar that one for sure has better aeration, if you are wanting someone to do it for you I don't see why this would be a bad option. You may still want to get kelp and neem for later top dressing and make sure to get a good mulch as they stated.

cool thanks for all the info Amshif87 yes this is an indoor grow. I already bought some nutes and dirt but next time I'll probably scoop some of this dirt up from these guys in maine. Ill have to look into how much it would cost me to make but I like that theirs has been sitting composting and is ready to go when I need it. Easy Peasey.

Jubilant will do thanks for the input

I think my brother lives next to a guy that grows red wigglers. I guess he just grows them in a field maybe he can ship some to me hes down in alabama.

frankslan said:

cool thanks for all the info Amshif87 yes this is an indoor grow. I already bought some nutes and dirt but next time I'll probably scoop some of this dirt up from these guys in maine. Ill have to look into how much it would cost me to make but I like that theirs has been sitting composting and is ready to go when I need it. Easy Peasey.

Jubilant will do thanks for the input

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With a mix like that you will need Zero Nutes You don't even need to PH your water.

And if you plan on mixing your own then you can plant directly into fresh mixed soil. Obviously your soil web will benefit from composting and it will be better every cycle. Nothing in that mix will burn even seedlings. I plant my seeds in cups of coots mix. 1 thing that mix is missing is the malted barley flour. Most people are now just mixing it in at 1 cup per cf and top dressing it in along with been, kelp and whatever you're adding in. You can buy spray free malted barley at a home brew shop and grind it yourself for pretty cheap.

A good tea for flowering with a soil like this I learned from our very own @Rasta Roy is a sea bird guano tea. You just need kelp, seabird guano (high Phosphorous), and earthworm castings. Great way to add available P to your bloomin bitches

sweet thanks for the info people.

If you use that soil, add some malted barley flower and some worms, guano teas are completely superfluous. With a properly balanced soil your plant will take what it needs when it needs it. High P supplements in flowering is a myth perpetuated by nutrient companies. Also harvesting guano isn't very environmentally friendly. Feed the soil not the plant! Stay safe and happy farming.

Amshif87 said:

If you use that soil, add some malted barley flower and some worms, guano teas are completely superfluous. With a properly balanced soil your plant will take what it needs when it needs it. High P supplements in flowering is a myth perpetuated by nutrient companies. Also harvesting guano isn't very environmentally friendly. Feed the soil not the plant! Stay safe and happy farming.

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Ya but isn't seabird guano a little better than normal bat gauno. I know there are better alternatives though.

It is better but still not great. Even if the environmental impact is 0, it is still wasting money. In nature sea birds don't come by in July or September and shit all over the soil just for flowering. Those inputs are absorbed by the soil life, turned into biavailavle forms and the plant takes out what it needs when it needs it. An established no til wil take the same treatment no matter what stage of life a plant is in.

Amshif87 said:

It is better but still not great. Even if the environmental impact is 0, it is still wasting money. In nature sea birds don't come by in July or September and shit all over the soil just for flowering. Those inputs are absorbed by the soil life, turned into biavailavle forms and the plant takes out what it needs when it needs it. An established no til wil take the same treatment no matter what stage of life a plant is in.

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Agree that a good established soil will supply the plant with everything it needs (More so the plant will obtain what is needs through the microbiology) but as the mix is fresh there is no real fungi network built up in the soil. Wouldn't you think supplying the first couple bloom phases with some available P would benefit your plants that do not have a good relationship with a fully developed endo mycorrhizae network? It was my understanding a plant will obtain P in its available form from the mycos so without a good network established your plant may have problems obtaining all the P it needs.

Jubilant said:

Agree that a good established soil will supply the plant with everything it needs (More so the plant will obtain what is needs through the microbiology) but as the mix is fresh there is no real fungi network built up in the soil. Wouldn't you think supplying the first couple bloom phases with some available P would benefit your plants that do not have a good relationship with a fully developed endo mycorrhizae network? It was my understanding a plant will obtain P in its available form from the mycos so without a good network established your plant may have problems obtaining all the P it needs.

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I think that while the bed is establishing, use of TM7, EWC teas or other bacterial innocculents has a huge benifit in jump starting the process but I don't think adding P is necessary. I know when it comes to the gold standard for no tils, it's coot/lumper and blue jay/mofo. If both of them say no guano, I'm going with it even if I can't remember what page out of 350 on the GC no til thread it was on. Lol. Listen I'm not here to knock anyone or how they grow. Rasta Roy has some incredible looking stuff going on and he obviously has a routine that works for him. Coots soil mix was designed with a soil biology expert to be complete with no other inputs. For me, don't fix it if it isn't broke. Most first time no til runs I see look better than any of the growers previous grows wether organic or Chem. Check out Joshua Steensland on YouTube. He does water only. No teas or aloe or anything. He's on his 3rd cycle and it's my understanding he never has used anything but water. Whatever he decides he is posting in the organic forum and that's already a win for Mother Nature. Stay safe and happy farming

Amshif87 said:

I think that while the bed is establishing, use of TM7, EWC teas or other bacterial innocculents has a huge benifit in jump starting the process but I don't think adding P is necessary. I know when it comes to the gold standard for no tils, it's coot/lumper and blue jay/mofo. If both of them say no guano, I'm going with it even if I can't remember what page out of 350 on the GC no til thread it was on. Lol. Listen I'm not here to knock anyone or how they grow. Rasta Roy has some incredible looking stuff going on and he obviously has a routine that works for him. Coots soil mix was designed with a soil biology expert to be complete with no other inputs. For me, don't fix it if it isn't broke. Most first time no til runs I see look better than any of the growers previous grows wether organic or Chem. Check out Joshua Steensland on YouTube. He does water only. No teas or aloe or anything. He's on his 3rd cycle and it's my understanding he never has used anything but water. Whatever he decides he is posting in the organic forum and that's already a win for Mother Nature. Stay safe and happy farming

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For sure! I would never want to knock someone grow, we put too much of ourselves into it. Roy himself doesn't use the tea's and has been straying away from them if I recall our last conversation correctly.

I myself only plan on using the guano tea for the first bloom phase on my soil then I am going water only with an occasional tea if my biology needs a boost.

EDIT: AGREED So glad to have more people in the organics section!

Jubilant said:

For sure! I would never want to knock someone grow, we put too much of ourselves into it. Roy himself doesn't use the tea's and has been straying away from them if I recall our last conversation correctly.

I myself only plan on using the guano tea for the first bloom phase on my soil then I am going water only with an occasional tea if my biology needs a boost.

EDIT: AGREED So glad to have more people in the organics section!

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You got a thread going for your grow?

Amshif87 said:

You got a thread going for your grow?

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Yeah man! Growing more than just cannabis but everything gets the same soil (only Cannabis will get my teas though)
I know a lot of people say you can't notill less than 10 gallons but I've heard from others you can so I'm trying it out in a variety of pots and sizes.
http://rollitup.org/t/jubilants-joyful-jungle.934458/

Also there is my journal and Instagram. I probably update Instagram the most but I just started my thread so that might start taking over

Amshif87 said:

If you use that soil, add some malted barley flower and some worms, guano teas are completely superfluous. With a properly balanced soil your plant will take what it needs when it needs it. High P supplements in flowering is a myth perpetuated by nutrient companies. Also harvesting guano isn't very environmentally friendly. Feed the soil not the plant! Stay safe and happy farming.

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This is the direction I tend to steer people now instead of guanos and high p inputs, for all those reasons. But I did cut my teeth with it so I got info about growing with it and They are a good way to introduce yourself to organics until you get more acquainted with building your soil for growing cannabis as a quick growing indoor annual. IMO. Malted barley is what's up tho

Rasta Roy said:

This is the direction I tend to steer people now instead of guanos and high p inputs, for all those reasons. But I did cut my teeth with it so I got info about growing with it and They are a good way to introduce yourself to organics until you get more acquainted with building your soil for growing cannabis as a quick growing indoor annual. IMO. Malted barley is what's up tho

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Word man, I thought I was hot shit organic grower with my General Organics GO pack. Lol. Honestly though. I understand going no till can seem like a daunting task at first so anyone going organic in whatever form that takes is a win for the herb, for the community and for the earth. stay safe and happy farming.

Amshif87 said:

Word man, I thought I was hot shit organic grower with my General Organics GO pack. Lol. Honestly though. I understand going no till can seem like a daunting task at first so anyone going organic in whatever form that takes is a win for the herb, for the community and for the earth. stay safe and happy farming.

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I think we all went through that phase! Lol. All the composting and soil building can be a lot of work at first but once you got a good system going it's easy (and dare I say even enjoyable when it's not too hot of a day out). And it makes the plants so much less work, it makes up for it. Plus it feels good not having to buy anything to fertilize your plants, just compost the waste your household and neighborhood generates.