This Is Why I Believe.

crackerboy said:

Why is it that some of the best schools in this country are Christian schools? Look up Masters Collage and see where they rank in the state for academics. I work with a whole team of electrical and mechanical engineers and 2/3 of us are religious in one way or the other. As a matter of fact, one of our mechanical engineers is a triple major. He got his bachelors in mechanical Engineering. Then got his masters in civil engineering and went on to finish his PHD with a math major. He is now almost complete with a degree in Christian theology. I would love to see you have this conversation with him. I don't think you would leave the conversation with that same attitude.

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Well, they do teach basic sciences like cellular biology and there's not many ways to avoid teaching evolution and common ancestry. It doesn't appear that their coursework denies reality so a really well-run school will attract the best and brightest Christians but no one is saying there aren't intelligent Christians, just that there is a negative correlation between the two. Pointing out stupid atheists would be a far bigger challenge IMO then the other way around, even taking into account the per capita discrepancy.

djruiner said:

well...first flaw with that is putting anything up against public school...the nation as a whole is dumbing down every year.and if your basing all that on 1 school and the 1 person you speak of...your proving nothing.and id sit down and talk with the guy...just like the preacher i talked to in a park one day...that the very next day...renounced his faith.its been a proven fact that the less intelligent tend to be more religious....not saying that all are feeble minded...but as proven in some cases they are.just like in public school...some winners...a whole lot of losers...and same will hold true in any christian school.also need to keep in mind that genetics play into all of this.if you have 2 parents that before going out into the town are required to wear helmets...good chance your not gonna be president of a major company one day.you act like we are personally attacking you,your faith,and your intelligence...which isnt the case...well it isnt for me.

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It isn't for you, in all fairness you've been pretty unbiased. However we both know that is not the case for everyone here.

mindphuk said:

Well, they do teach basic sciences like cellular biology and there's not many ways to avoid teaching evolution and common ancestry. It doesn't appear that their coursework denies reality so a really well-run school will attract the best and brightest Christians but no one is saying there aren't intelligent Christians, just that there is a negative correlation between the two. Pointing out stupid atheists would be a far bigger challenge IMO then the other way around, even taking into account the per capita discrepancy.

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To your point, I have seen many Christians just flat out refuse to even try to understand anything that they feel contradicts the Bible. That to me just does not make any sense. There is also a large portion of the Christian population that will only home school their children. Which in my opinion limits them two the knowledge of the parent that is teaching them. One of the biggest thing I enjoyed about collage is getting all the different points of views that came with the life experiences of the professors. Although not all public schools are a great place to send your children, it does help with a child's ability to relate to their peers. I won't try to refute the statistics but would suggest that there are social issue's that drive that number. My point is that religion itself does not limit ones ability to learn other subjects. Just that they have been taught to be biased against certain subjects. I personally believe that whether or not you agree with something is no reason not to try to understand it.

djruiner said:

well...first flaw with that is putting anything up against public school...the nation as a whole is dumbing down every year.and if your basing all that on 1 school and the 1 person you speak of...your proving nothing.and id sit down and talk with the guy...just like the preacher i talked to in a park one day...that the very next day...renounced his faith.its been a proven fact that the less intelligent tend to be more religious....not saying that all are feeble minded...but as proven in some cases they are.just like in public school...some winners...a whole lot of losers...and same will hold true in any christian school.also need to keep in mind that genetics play into all of this.if you have 2 parents that before going out into the town are required to wear helmets...good chance your not gonna be president of a major company one day.you act like we are personally attacking you,your faith,and your intelligence...which isnt the case...well it isnt for me.

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I don't think that you are attaching me. I just think that there are a lot of misconceptions and generalizations going on in this thread. And yes I grew up in the south, so I have seen my fair share of toothless fanatics that still think that the KKK will be a viable political party some day. So yeah they tend to drive down that IQ level a bit. LOL

crackerboy said:

To your point, I have seen many Christians just flat out refuse to even try to understand anything that they feel contradicts the Bible. That to me just does not make any sense. There is also a large portion of the Christian population that will only home school their children. Which in my opinion limits them two the knowledge of the parent that is teaching them. One of the biggest thing I enjoyed about collage is getting all the different points of views that came with the life experiences of the professors. Although not all public schools are a great place to send your children, it does help with a child's ability to relate to their peers. I won't try to refute the statistics but would suggest that there are social issue's that drive that number. My point is that religion itself does not limit ones ability to learn other subjects. Just that they have been taught to be biased against certain subjects. I personally believe that whether or not you agree with something is no reason not to try to understand it.

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Good post my friend! It's not only refusing to try to understand but actively trying to discredit what they don't yet fully understand. 90% of the religious arguments against evolution are strawman arguments. They have to change what evolutionary theory actually says in order to make their points valid.

mindphuk said:

Good post my friend! It's not only refusing to try to understand but actively trying to discredit what they don't yet fully understand. 90% of the religious arguments against evolution are strawman arguments. They have to change what evolutionary theory actually says in order to make their points valid.

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"They" don't have to prove or disprove any "theory" to be validated.....that's the part you never acknowledge, not even for a fleeting moment.

I know I've had to have posted this probably a hundred times or more...but God just isn't an argument.

Mindphuk, your goal is to break apart, piece by piece, the understanding of God via the Christian, in an attempt to make them appear the opaque imbecile you deem them to be.

Save the usual insult.....ridiculous waste of time. Life's too short. You, as an atheist, should know this better than I.
+++It doesn't touch me at all+++
In all sincerity, I truly do hope your heart and soul is touched one day by the power of God.

[video=youtube;GA_Cz3jWT3c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA_Cz3jWT3c[/video]

Babs34 said:

"They" don't have to prove or disprove any "theory" to be validated.....that's the part you never acknowledge, not even for a fleeting moment.

I know I've had to have posted this probably a hundred times or more...but God just isn't an argument.

Mindphuk, your goal is to break apart, piece by piece, the understanding of God via the Christian, in an attempt to make them appear the opaque imbecile you deem them to be.

Save the usual insult.....ridiculous waste of time. Life's too short. You, as an atheist, should know this better than I.
+++It doesn't touch me at all+++
In all sincerity, I truly do hope your heart and soul is touched one day by the power of God.

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Once again you completely miss the point. Of course I'm referring to the ones that DO attempt to disprove science in order to validate their beliefs. I was posting a response to crackerboy about the 'many Christians just flat out refuse to even try to understand anything that they feel contradicts the Bible.' In case you have a reading comprehension problem, I specifically was referring to the religious arguments against evolution. not about god or religion in general. That was your inference.

Only you would attempt to extend my point to include all believers/Christians. My goal is and always has been to defend science from ignorant and baseless attacks. Trying to paint me as trying to break apart the understanding of god is disingenuous and an obvious attempt to insult or attack my character, something you are accusing me of doing. So take your baseless accusations elsewhere.

I'm starting to get the impression I'm not the only one dry right now.....†LOL†
Religion and politics are the best way to start any fight I suppose.
In all seriousness, they're has been an extended attempt in this thread to paint Christians as complete idiots, when realistically I think we all know that stupidity simply runs rampant in this world, regardless of race or creed.

mindphuk said:

Once again you completely miss the point. Of course I'm referring to the ones that DO attempt to disprove science in order to validate their beliefs. I was posting a response to crackerboy about the 'many Christians just flat out refuse to even try to understand anything that they feel contradicts the Bible.' In case you have a reading comprehension problem, I specifically was referring to the religious arguments against evolution. not about god or religion in general. That was your inference.

Only you would attempt to extend my point to include all believers/Christians. My goal is and always has been to defend science from ignorant and baseless attacks. Trying to paint me as trying to break apart the understanding of god is disingenuous and an obvious attempt to insult or attack my character, something you are accusing me of doing. So take your baseless accusations elsewhere.

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"Only I' would "accuse" you of "baseless" accusations?
You do what you do Mindphuk.......one only need to read any of your numerous posts to figure it out.

I will "defend" myself, and my beliefs, WITH REASON, purpose and nature---no more.

There was not a single "disingenuous" intent on my part. My TRUE intent is that you are ONE DAY, sooner--rather than later, be touched by the GRACE of God.

Babs34 said:

"Only I' would "accuse" you of "baseless" accusations?
You do what you do Mindphuk.......one only need to read any of your numerous posts to figure it out.

I will "defend" myself, and my beliefs, WITH REASON, purpose and nature---no more.

There was not a single "disingenuous" intent on my part. My TRUE intent is that you are ONE DAY, sooner--rather than later, touched by the GRACE of God.

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What was it about my post that angered you so much? I was in agreement with Crackerboy, something that hasn't happened for pages, and you chose that time to jump in with your attack? What exactly was it about any of my posts that make you think I want to break up understanding of god? Whatever that means. I have stated my goals and that is to point out when people are dismissing critical thinking and replacing it with dogma. You always come across as very angry towards atheists. What happened to make you hate people that don't accept your beliefs?

You may not have understood how you were being disingenuous, but when you attempt to make a caricature of my actual position and attack that rather than my actual stance on things, that sort of falls in that realm.

One quick addendum Mindphuk...your words here verbatim:
My goal is and always has been to defend science from ignorant and baseless attacks.

If man's "science" were truly so much more worthy than your notion of God, the world would indeed be without purpose.

You have no idea what you trust. I have been diagnosed with an assortment of disease, only to be "informed" by doctor after doctor that "just because I have these lists of terroristic 'diseases'........."does not mean there isn't "something else" wrong in addition to "their facts." I was the EPITOME OF HEALTH only a few short years ago mind you......until of course I relied on man's scientific notion for healing/medication......and no, I am not referring to only partaking of the medicinal qualities of MJ.

THAT SCIENTIFIC NOTION WAS KILLING ME!!!!

When I said God was BIGGER than "science"........that wasn't a mumbo jumbo Christian rant. Proof is in the pudding, and I AM that living proof. My being able to throw out "with proof" a mere "I told you so" will serve as no credit towards my being.

It's SCIENCE that has been KILLING ME.

It is GOD ALMIGHTLY bringing me from the depths of hell.

.....The End

Babs34 said:

One quick addendum Mindphuk...your words here verbatim:
My goal is and always has been to defend science from ignorant and baseless attacks.

If man's "science" were truly so much more worthy than your notion of God, the world would indeed be without purpose.

You have no idea what you trust. I have been diagnosed with an assortment of disease, only to be "informed" by doctor after doctor that "just because I have these lists of terroristic 'diseases'........."does not mean there isn't "something else" wrong in addition to "their facts." I was the EPITOME OF HEALTH only a few short years ago mind you......until of course I relied on man's scientific notion for healing/medication......and no, I am not referring to only partaking of the medicinal qualities of MJ.

THAT SCIENTIFIC NOTION WAS KILLING ME!!!!

When I said God was BIGGER than "science"........that wasn't a mumbo jumbo Christian rant. Proof is in the pudding, and I AM that living proof. My being able to throw out "with proof" a mere "I told you so" will serve as no credit towards my being.

It's SCIENCE that has been KILLING ME.

It is GOD ALMIGHTLY bringing me from the depths of hell.

.....The End

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see...right there is what he is talking about....god made you better huh?end of story....so you think that god has what cured you...say if you had died...what then...it wouldnt be god letting you down..it would be the doctors...but when you live...god saves you...once again god is only being used when good things happen.and anyone saying otherwise..you ignore.you are not proof of anything...proof that doctors dont know shit maybe yes...but not proof there is a god.if the proof is in that pudding...then that pudding was spiked with vodka.once again religion having issues with science...dont you hate how facts stand in the way of things?

mindphuk said:

What was it about my post that angered you so much? I was in agreement with Crackerboy, something that hasn't happened for pages, and you chose that time to jump in with your attack? What exactly was it about any of my posts that make you think I want to break up understanding of god? Whatever that means. I have stated my goals and that is to point out when people are dismissing critical thinking and replacing it with dogma. You always come across as very angry towards atheists. What happened to make you hate people that don't accept your beliefs?

You may not have understood how you were being disingenuous, but when you attempt to make a caricature of my actual position and attack that rather than my actual stance on things, that sort of falls in that realm.

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Boy oh boy....I'm angry at atheists? The ONLY threads I've stumbled upon with you are on threads of a Religous/Spiritual nature.......and numerous at that on RIU alone, yikes.

I will confess I for a time frequented the "atheist thread"........but SOLELY because I was being nosey and found I was being gossiped about, LOL!!!......AND after having been "attacked" for my wholehearted beliefs in something you are just too stuborn to attempt to comprehend. ::EACE:::

djruiner said:

see...right there is what he is talking about....god made you better huh?end of story....so you think that god has what cured you...say if you had died...what then...it wouldnt be god letting you down..it would be the doctors...but when you live...god saves you...once again god is only being used when good things happen.and anyone saying otherwise..you ignore.you are not proof of anything...proof that doctors dont know shit maybe yes...but not proof there is a god.if the proof is in that pudding...then that pudding was spiked with vodka.once again religion having issues with science...dont you hate how facts stand in the way of things?

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Wow......I'm ending this with just a brief overview of what you have stated. No, it's not a simple assessment of God just cured me. I opened my eyes to His instruction, one of which was to STOP TAKING THE EVIL MEDICATIONS. I am getting BETTER BY THE DAY!!!

I really don't "dig" animosity, do you?

AND YOU'RE RIGHT..........DOCTOR'S DON'T KNOW SHIT, LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
They know very little.....let me rephrase.

Babs34 said:

Wow......I'm ending this with just a brief overview of what you have stated. No, it's not a simple assessment of God just cured me. I opened my eyes to His instruction, one of which was to STOP TAKING THE EVIL MEDICATIONS. I am getting BETTER BY THE DAY!!!

I really don't "dig" animosity, do you?

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god told you to stop taking the meds...hmmm..strange..i didnt know he still talked to people...i guess just you...and..ummm..well he has been quite for a good time now...unless the crazy people talking to god on a two way radio are for real and not just crazy.or is he sending you text messages...i wonder what service gets a signal in heaven?do you think that MAYBE by chance..you got a stroke of luck?since we all know god didnt speak to you...maybe just your own human willpower helped you to overcome?and like i said...what if you didnt get better...then who's at fault?cause unlike you..some dont get better..yet worship your same god.people that are believers will always say its god that did it...why..there is no power stronger then god right?and it also seems in their nature to mention god every 35 seconds...like you get some door prize at the gates of heaven for praising god more then others.so ofcourse god made you better..not you..not human nature...god did it.just hope that your door prize isn't what he gave his own son.

I take the fact that you responded with such a "stance"...you do. Lata.....and BTW, I'm SO not falling for your meeting a pastor and turning him towards atheism after a mere conversation with you.

Babs34 said:

I take the fact that you responded with such a "stance"...you do. Lata.....and BTW, I'm SO not falling for your meeting a pastor and turning him towards atheism after a mere conversation with you.

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personally....i SO don't care what you fall for....and who said i turned him atheist?why is it that anyone that don't worship gets that label?does everything need a tag?then your basically making it a religion itself...maybe not organised..but still.more and more people are waking up...some just cant give up that hope that someone is looking out for you...and one thing you said was right...without god the world would have no purpose...but its not the world..just the followers.they wouldn't have their crutch there holding them up.but look around..is someone really looking out for the people of this planet?...ask those in haiti..ask those in indonesia...where was god for them?most religions are still around out of the fear of the people living their life how they want..and possibly running rampant.without that sense of direction...and control...they might just think on their own...and they cant have that...which is why they try so hard to get people to join them...if the religion falls...things might not work out so well for them..people are too scared to think that someone isnt looking out for them...afraid they are on their own...if you look around..and its not hard to see...we are on our own here

djruiner said:

personally....i SO don't care what you fall for....and who said i turned him atheist?why is it that anyone that don't worship gets that label?does everything need a tag?then your basically making it a religion itself...maybe not organised..but still.more and more people are waking up...some just cant give up that hope that someone is looking out for you...and one thing you said was right...without god the world would have no purpose...but its not the world..just the followers.they wouldn't have their crutch there holding them up.but look around..is someone really looking out for the people of this planet?...ask those in haiti..ask those in indonesia...where was god for them?most religions are still around out of the fear of the people living their life how they want..and possibly running rampant.without that sense of direction...and control...they might just think on their own...and they cant have that...which is why they try so hard to get people to join them...if the religion falls...things might not work out so well for them..people are too scared to think that someone isnt looking out for them...afraid they are on their own...if you look around..and its not hard to see...we are on our own here

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Really now? Note the title of the thread.
Science CAN NOT explain what has and is happening to me.....FACT.
Good Night.

Babs34 said:

Really now? Note the title of the thread.
Science CAN NOT explain what has and is happening to me.....FACT.
Good Night.

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good night?...maybe i should try and run after each comment i make...my whole point was...just because you got better...does not prove science is wrong and listening to a soundless voice made you better.its like your saying since you got better..there has to be a god.*waves retardly*