Thought crimes?

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
The Rosewood massacre was provoked when a white woman in Sumner claimed she had been assaulted by a black man. Frances "Fannie" Taylor was 22 years old in 1923 and married to James, a 30-year-old millwright employed by Cummer & Sons. They lived in Sumner, where the mill was located, with their two young children. James' job required him to leave each day during the darkness of early morning. Neighbors remembered Fannie Taylor as "very peculiar". She was meticulously clean, scrubbing her cedar floors with bleach so that they shone white. Other women attested that Taylor was aloof; no one knew her very well.[SUP][15][/SUP]
On January 1, 1923, the Taylors' neighbor reported that she heard a scream while it was still dark, grabbed her revolver and ran next door to find Fannie bruised and beaten, with scuff marks across the white floor. Taylor was screaming that someone needed to get her baby. She said a black man was in her house; he had come through the back door and assaulted her. The neighbor found the baby, but no one else.[SUP][15][/SUP] Taylor's initial report stated her assailant beat her about the face but did not rape her. Rumors circulated—widely believed by whites in Sumner—that she was both raped and robbed.[SUP][16][/SUP][SUP][note 1][/SUP] The charge was inflammatory in the South: the day before, the Klan had held a parade and rally of over 100 hooded Klansmen 50 miles (80 km) away in Gainesville under a burning cross and a banner reading, "First and Always Protect Womanhood".[SUP][17][/SUP]
The neighbor also reported the absence that day of Taylor's laundress, Sarah Carrier, whom the white women in Sumner called "Aunt Sarah". Philomena Goins, Carrier's granddaughter, told a different story about Fannie Taylor many years later. She joined Carrier at Taylor's home as usual that morning. They watched a white man leave by the back door later in the morning before noon. She said Taylor did emerge from her home beaten, but it was well after morning.[SUP][15][/SUP] Carrier's grandson and Philomena's brother, Arnett Goins, sometimes went with them and had seen the white man before. His name was John Bradley and he worked for the Seaboard Air Line Railway. Carrier told others in the black community what she had seen that day; the black community of Rosewood understood that Fannie Taylor had a white lover. They got into a fight that day and he beat her.[SUP][18][/SUP] When Bradley left Taylor's house, he went to Rosewood.[SUP][15][/SUP]
Quickly, Levy County Sheriff Robert Elias Walker raised a posse and started an investigation. When they found that Jesse Hunter, a black prisoner, had escaped from a chain gang, they began a search to question him about Taylor's attack. Men arrived from Cedar Key, Otter Creek, Chiefland, and Bronson to help with the search. Adding confusion to the series of events later recounted, as many as 400 men began to gather. Sheriff Walker deputized some of them, but was unable to initiate them all. Walker asked for dogs from a nearby convict camp, but one dog may have been used by a group of men acting without Walker's authority. Dogs led a group of about 100 to 150 men to the home of Aaron Carrier, Sarah's nephew. Aaron was taken outside, where his mother begged the men not to kill him. He was tied to a car and dragged to Sumner.[SUP][15][/SUP] Sheriff Walker put Carrier in protective custody at the county seat in Bronson to remove him from the men in the posse, many of whom were drinking and acting on their own authority. Worried that the group would quickly grow further out of control, Walker also urged black employees to stay at the turpentine mills for their own safety.[SUP][19][/SUP]
A group of vigilantes, who had become a mob by this time, seized Sam Carter, a local blacksmith and teamster who worked in a turpentine still. They tortured Carter into admitting having hidden the escaped chain gang prisoner. Carter led the group to the spot in the woods where he said he had taken Hunter, but the dogs were unable to pick up a scent. To the surprise of many witnesses, someone fatally shot Carter in the face.[SUP][note 2][/SUP] The group hung Carter's mutilated body from a tree as a symbol to other black men in the area.[SUP][1][/SUP] Some in the mob took souvenirs of his clothes.[SUP][15][/SUP] Survivors suggest that John Bradley fled to Rosewood because he knew he was in trouble and had gone to the home of Aaron Carrier, a fellow veteran and Mason. Carrier and Carter, another Mason, covered Bradley in the back of a wagon. Carter took Bradley to a nearby river, let him out of the wagon, then returned home to be met by the mob who had been led to him by dogs following Bradley's scent.[SUP][20][/SUP]
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
You all have fun
I have to go to court to fight a
"unreasonable and imprudent speed" ticket
Reasonable and prudent limit. No person shall drive a vehicle at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the conditions and having regard for the actual and potential hazards then existing. The speed of a vehicle shall be so controlled as may be necessary to avoid colliding with any object, person, vehicle or other conveyance on or entering the highway in compliance with legal requirements and using due care.

That is a speeding ticket a cop can give you when he cant get you on anything else.
They can also call this a failure to control ticket

Doesnt mean you couldnt control your vehicle or that you were going to fast
it just means the cop thought you were going too fast
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
You all have fun
I have to go to court to fight a
"unreasonable and imprudent speed" ticket
Reasonable and prudent limit. No person shall drive a vehicle at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the conditions and having regard for the actual and potential hazards then existing. The speed of a vehicle shall be so controlled as may be necessary to avoid colliding with any object, person, vehicle or other conveyance on or entering the highway in compliance with legal requirements and using due care.

That is a speeding ticket a cop can give you when he cant get you on anything else.
They can also call this a failure to control ticket

Doesn't mean you couldn't control your vehicle or that you were going to fast
it just means the cop thought you were going too fast
When you return, please consider answering my question. cn
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Private message me the question I will answer it here
Okay, I looked at my two relevant posts, and the problem could be syntactic. So:
what was the point and the relevance of your burning-cross post?
I noticed that you posted a longish snippet about Rosewood. I'm wondering how that advances the thread as well. If you don't see that as a question, I'll request that you consider it such anyway. cn
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Okay, I looked at my two relevant posts, and the problem could be syntactic. So:
what was the point and the relevance of your burning-cross post?
Burning a cross is free speech same as burning a flag
However do it within view of a black familys home while simultaneously telling them to get out is a terroristic act
how will you argue that other than a hate crime?

I noticed that you posted a longish snippet about Rosewood. I'm wondering how that advances the thread as well. If you don't see that as a question, I'll request that you consider it such anyway. cn
Rosewood was one act of hate after another against a black community. They weren't killed because of a reason other than the color of their skin that is not only a crime against the victims it is a crime against our society and should have higher penalties
Done

See above
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Done

See above
I don't think I ever argued that hate crimes don't exist. Originally this thread was about the idea that thought could be criminal. I am not sure how that mutated to the question about the reality of hate crimes. What'm I missing? More to the point: for what am I being chastised? cn
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
I don't think I ever argued that hate crimes don't exist. Originally this thread was about the idea that thought could be criminal. I am not sure how that mutated to the question about the reality of hate crimes. What'm I missing? More to the point: for what am I being chastised? cn
I think you are missing the original intent of the OP which is to rationalize racism as nothing to be punished for in regards to crime and victims
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
I think you are missing the original intent of the OP which is to rationalize racism as nothing to be punished for in regards to crime and victims
I treated the OP's words "as presented", which led to a peacefully-evolving thread. When he sprung his trap, my foot wasn't in it. As I'd already said to canndo, "intent" is treacherous ground for reason and action. I reject arguments based on uncertain ascription of intent... it's much too easy to use that to load questions.

Furthermore, I have seen an awful lot of readiness to call racism in this forum, sometimes earned and sometimes not. I consider it the greater part of prudence to question intent rather than to assume it (especially when the subject is so fractious), and restrict the calls of racism to the clear examples, of which there are all too many. Imo UB and a few others here guilty of this, being overready to say "that's racist!" where I see no clear, demonstrable race-baiting or outright bigotry.
Just watch ... chances are somebody will accuse me of crypto-racism for saying this. That sort of recursive maybe-fabrication of racist intent is, in my considered opinion, a subtle form of applying terror. Of course, "the judicious appplication of terror is also a form of communication" (apocryphal; sometimes attributed to J. Stalin).

I am not saying that you'll do this to me. I do ask, however, to not be judged by something as protean and indistinct (and manipulable) as intent, mine or another's. cn
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
I treated the OP's words "as presented", which led to a peacefully-evolving thread. When he sprung his trap, my foot wasn't in it. As I'd already said to canndo, "intent" is treacherous ground for reason and action. I reject arguments based on uncertain ascription of intent... it's much too easy to use that to load questions.

Furthermore, I have seen an awful lot of readiness to call racism in this forum, sometimes earned and sometimes not. I consider it the greater part of prudence to question intent rather than to assume it (especially when the subject is so fractious), and restrict the calls of racism to the clear examples, of which there are all too many. Imo UB and a few others here guilty of this, being overready to say "that's racist!" where I see no clear, demonstrable race-baiting or outright bigotry.
Just watch ... chances are somebody will accuse me of crypto-racism for saying this. That sort of recursive maybe-fabrication of racist intent is, in my considered opinion, a subtle form of applying terror. Of course, "the judicious appplication of terror is also a form of communication" (apocryphal; sometimes attributed to J. Stalin).

I am not saying that you'll do this to me. I do ask, however, to not be judged by something as protean and indistinct (and manipulable) as intent, mine or another's. cn
History History History
The accusation wouldnt pop up if it wasnt for a history of bigoted and racist statements the OP has brought up in the past
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
History History History
The accusation wouldnt pop up if it wasnt for a history of bigoted and racist statements the OP has brought up in the past
History is a bitch of a cross to bear, and fundamentally unfair. I am an individual first, human second, and (member of race, creed, nation, sex) way down the list of priority. Chaining me to the history of my race or sex or ethnic group or ancestors or (anyone not myself) is the commonest engine of racism and bigotry. I implore you to view me as a Me and never a They.

Now that my jeremiad is finished, I was aware of some of the poster's history. I still did him the basic courtesy of working with his words "as provided" and seeing where it would lead. I have seen other posters on this site change. I extended a tentative hand in friendship and was very glad to do so, even if it didn't always pan out. Awareness plus manners is strength. Awareness plus presumption is weakness. These things I believe. cn
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Chaining me to the history of my race or sex or ethnic group or ancestors or (anyone not myself) is the commonest engine of racism and bigotry. cn
Easy thing
Dont say racist or bigoted things

And you wont get called a racist or a bigot
pretty simple if you think about it
da.
 
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