Thoughts about Light .

Common Sense ....

..
" ...Sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts..."

...

Simple enough ...


Light & plants ....

Nice issue ,for burning up some of brain's grey matter ...

(....higher animal thinking about previous evolution state of existence ..Ha ... )
Anyway ....


Fact #1 : Higher plant's have evolved under the natural sunlight that reaches Earth's surface ...
(For pretty some time ,now ... )
Pretty solid fact ,ain't so ?

Fact #2 : More specifically ,Plants have evolved and still evolving ,under the influence - pressure - Irritamentum -Stimulus -motive ,
of four main characteristics of sunlight ( or light,at general ...) ..

a) Quantity
( Power / Flux ,with main measuring units used -when studying plants- : Watts - Joule/sec - umol/sec ....
"Density" is also used ..All the above units per illuminated surface area .....Watts / m[SUP]2[/SUP] ,for example )

b ) Quality
( Relative spectral distribution of light... Units : Watt /nm or umol/sec.nm..)

c ) Duration ( usually in hours/minutes )

d ) Incident light Angle ( Degrees ° )


Fact # 3 : Earth's Atmosphere layers and it's phenomena ,alter-pretty much - all those characteristics ...
Absorption of certain wavelengths from water vapours and other gases ..
Diffusion of others ,due to particle reflection or refraction due to atmosphere's density inconsistencies ...
Sudden weather changes ,clouds ,etc ....


So .....
Here we are ....:

....


Have to go now ....
To be continued later on ...

Think along with ,those interested of course .....

Look at graph of "average " sunlight spectral / power distribution ...

Interesting question #1 :
Why plants chose a certain region ( ~300 nm up to ~ 750 nm ) of Incident at Earth's surface sunlight ?

What are the main ..." pros " of that certain region ?
What that region offers ?



More advanced questions :

How exactly atmosphere alters light ,per region of Earth ?
How exactly seasons alter light ,per region of Earth ?
Climate ?


What " region" 's light (and climate ),is the most ....Productive ?
In what ways ?

We do not have to mimic Sunlight ..
Only ..to manipulate our lights ,in order to mimic sunlight's effects ....
(Plant's evolved ,that way ...Only GM plant's might behave otherwise ,from "normal " )

For every case of wished / wanted "goal " ..

One might want short plants ...
Leafy plants ...
Leggy plants ...
Quality yields ..
Quantity yields ...

Or more " advanced " light manipulation in co-operation with other agricultural techniques ...
For achieving things ,that can not be done under any natural condition ....


Do not forget ...
Common sense ,needed ....
Not necessarily PhDs ...

Some clear -light -crystal imagination ....
That's the only way to knowledge( or at least,'understanding' ) , I'm afraid ....

Someone used to imagine ,watching sunsets ,that he rides on a sun ray ....
Did not like that much ,Maths ....
Albert used his common sense ...


I'd be very happy ,to see posted ,as many "simple perceptions " of the issue ,as possible ...


Let's try to find out how light works with plant's ..

(Specially for our beloved plant ...The outlawed cousin of nettle ....
Outlawed plant ....
Year 2013 AD ....
Outlawed from people with plenty of PhDs'.......

Ah ......

Really ...

If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. – Thomas Jefferson

Where all these great men,like T. Jefferson have gone ?

That is an extinct specie ,I'm afraid ....

I hope for the minimal impact to the rest of us .....


Anyway ....

Back to the light ....
To the bright side of things ....

Subbed

We know plants adapt to their environment

Will a Sat morph into an Indica if enough generations are grown outdoors in Afghanistan, or vice versa?

Very nice post, SDS. Thought provoking, indeed.

some thoughts that pop into my head:

Sun & Moon

Sun - Do periods of heightened solar activity (sun spots, etc) have an effect on plant growth on a global scale? In what way (if any) are the quality of light effected by solar activity?

Moon - relation of plant evolution/growth to moonlight. Full moons can be fairly bright. And I also read that any light pollution during dark cycle will influence yield, create stress, etc. Outdoor plants still produce, even through "light pollution" from the moon during (near and complete) full moon.

As to Jefferson and Justice: What are your thoughts about Colorado and Legality? I believe that Colorado is the only state on Earth where recreational growth and use of our Co-evolved plant friend is given as a Constitutional Right of every resident (with limits in place)? Washington State legalizing recreational use and possession. We ain't to the promised land, yet, but I think we're heading in the right direction. Lots more eyes able to observe the constant evolution.

stardustsailor said:

Interesting question #1 :
Why plants chose a certain region ( ~300 nm up to ~ 750 nm ) of Incident at Earth's surface sunlight ?

What are the main ..." pros " of that certain region ?
What that region offers ?

Click to expand...

My opinion: the region of light plants use is high intensity (high frequency?) enough to penetrate into plant tissues and low intensity enough not to lyse the cells which make up those tissues.

Another theory, a bit outside of the box: perhaps the earth's atmosphere, during the majority of evolution into what we consider higher plants today, contained elements that effectively filtered out anything but the portion of the electromagnetic spectrum used by plants.

stardustsailor said:

What " region" 's light (and climate ),is the most ....Productive ?
In what ways ?

Click to expand...

I think this question is... unanswerable? The beauty of evolution is that species are created by bottle necks... geographical isolation... etc. Plants that evolve in different regions evolve to make the best, most productive use of its region's available light. In this way, each regions spectral makeup and climate is most productive for the plants which evolved there.

A question in return:

In what ways are our actions (as ignorant, selfish, short sighted animals) affecting plants? We are affecting the climate so very drastically, the very molecular makeup of our atmosphere is changing rapidly. It's hard to believe that's not affecting the quality and type of light that makes it through to the earth's surface. It's also hard to believe that the amount of chemical compounds we're pumping out isn't affecting how plants transpire, breathe...

mamakush said:

I think this question is... unanswerable? The beauty of evolution is that species are created by bottle necks... geographical isolation... etc. Plants that evolve in different regions evolve to make the best, most productive use of its region's available light. In this way, each regions spectral makeup and climate is most productive for the plants which evolved there.

Click to expand...

Then maybe here, we need a database of what region a plant's genetics evolved within? So as to match it's most productive conditions (i.e., the conditions where it evolved) with the plant itself. With that sort of a reference, one would have a good starting point as to "what is most productive region" for a given plant strain and then tailor a spectrum with qualities of light from that region for that specific plant genetics. But then, I guess we get into the loooooong timeline of regional characteristic change over time (ancient oceans are current deserts - current high mountains were ancient oceans, etc.).

Now, correlating the proper "regional characteristics" of hybrids, especially if the parents were from completely different regions, then it would probably get tricky. Not to mention expressions of different genotypes - ( hypothetical: Plant A is cold tolerant and short - Blant B is drought Tolerant and tall: Hybrid A is Cold Tolerant, tall, but not drought tolerant ...).

mamakush said:

A question in return:

In what ways are our actions (as ignorant, selfish, short sighted animals) affecting plants? We are affecting the climate so very drastically, the very molecular makeup of our atmosphere is changing rapidly. It's hard to believe that's not affecting the quality and type of light that makes it through to the earth's surface. It's also hard to believe that the amount of chemical compounds we're pumping out isn't affecting how plants transpire, breathe...

Click to expand...

I don't doubt that the human species has a great deal of influence (moreso than most any other species) on the planet's environment. I hear some global warming opponents saying that the increased CO2 build up correlated with global climate change will actually cause plant populations around the world to increase. Also, somewhat related, increased human population = increased CO2 production = more CO2 for plants? And the other way around, is there an oxygen threshold to human population, in which, depending on the amount of factors creating a supply of O2 (including plant respiration) human population is naturally limited? Population Boost correlation in plants and humans? (though, this is not necessarily "light" related).

I guess I answered (or actually, didn't answer) your question with another question.

PetFlora said:

Subbed

We know plants adapt to their environment

Will a Sat morph into an Indica if enough generations are grown outdoors in Afghanistan, or vice versa?

Click to expand...

We got all the genetic diversity of any modern dog you see from the DNA of the wolf (talking about golden labs, black labs, poodles, and Pomeranians - all those expressions are contained in the original Wolf genetics!) Wow. I imagine that the genetic diversity of Cannabis has a s#it load of potential to express all kinds of traits. Wouldn't the Sativa and Indica (and Ruderalis) have shared genetic traits inherited by their common ancestor?

Ok....

( You really have to forgive me now ...
I've been out with some "bad" company ...
Drinking lots of local spirits (made out of grape juice distillation and secret recipies / combos of spices ... )
And lots of splifs ... so ...brain ..is quite ..eh ..."messed up " ....I should say .... )


So...Take things easy ,from start ....

From the graph :
View attachment 2601251...

1 ) Region from ~ 400 nm (violet -almost-visible light ) up to ~ 700-730 nm is of highest power .
Even after atmosphere's, overall "filtering " effects ...
That's a fact .

2 ) The shorter the wavelegth (towards violet/UV ) the less photons / quanta in absolute numbers ,but "carrying" more "energy " .
The opposite goes for longer wls (towards red/far red) ...More photons per Watt (more umoles per Watt ) ,but carriers of less energy .
Fact ,also ....

3) Water filters longer wavelengths ...(Ambers/reds/far reds / NIR /IR / heat -FIR/FLIR)
Faaaacttt....

*3a ) Living organisms and thus living cells ..Are "made " of ~ 75 % ..water ....(Hydrogen and Oxygen )
Note that ...Fact,also .....


4) While longer wls get absorbed by water vapour / water / other gases ..
Shorter ones ,due to high energy state ,do reflect /refract passing through atmposphere ..
So...Less photons ,already ....With -high losses of energy - due to refraction(and partial absorption accompanying ) /reflection,
"falling " omni -directional (diffused ) ....

For nothern hemisphere ,the further north ,the more "pronounced " this phenomenon ....
( Later to find out-maybe- that ,blue makes really green /leafy /stocky plants ,with rapid "vegging " times ..
I.e . Norway /Canada /Etc ,from total " icecube" state , become Gardens of Eden ,in no time .....By luck ? No .... )

The further south ,towards Equator ,red wls ,start to dominate ,almost all year round ...
(Another long,nice ,juicy ,issue ...there ... )


Fact ,also ....


Photosynthesis ( PS ,from now on .. ) is made on a basis of photon / quanta absolute numbers
and not by energy contained/carried ....
Excess energy is transformed to heat ,by both physical(molecule level ) and chemical(electron/atom level )reactions ...
(water molecule vibration & long wl emission ,respectively .. and as simply ...)

So the more photons the higher PS rates ( Big load on PS centers ) ..
The more energy in incident photons ...More heat ..Internal heat .... (winter 's blue dominant light ,magically ,heats plants -from inside ...while it really slows down PS ...Winter's sleep ...... )


Break .

Short Spike :

Ha ...Never to forget ...
Plants have total different ....perception..than us ,humans ...

For example ...
A fact ...

They actually utilise the most diffused/dispersed wls of sunlight ,to "guide " themselves towards sun's position....
They use blue light ,to "sense " where the heck ,sun is ...( Phototropism & blue wls ) ..
The most dispersed ones .....Why ?

Why not use the more directional reds ?

That's the question....

(The answer is really simple ...." Fuel source " .... )


..WE are talking of the highest level possible, efficient use of light ....
Every f@(kin' nanometer ,has millions of years of evolution ,"hidden" beneath ....

Nothing is left to luck ....

Or ...

Luck , is evaluated,calculated and finally ... overridden .

Oh ..Common ...
So Few,of you ?

Where's my beloved opposition ?

stardustsailor said:

Ok....

Drinking lots of local spirits (made out of grape juice distillation and secret recipies / combos of spices ... )

Click to expand...

Ugh.....The worst drink... When you are from U.K and go on a trip to Greece, especially when you are young, this is what you bring back..

I think you have to be greek to enjoy it.