TMV - Genetics - No definite answer?

bandit08

bandit08

Well-Known Member
Ok so I've previously posted on here with some pictures of some odd leaves on one of my Gluberry OG. TMV, PH issues or Genetics had the blame. I know it's not PH issues so its eiher TMV or Genetics. I've read every thing i can find about TMV and matched my Glueberry with every picture I've found about it. it's pretty clear that after lots of testing to date nothing has EVER tested positive for it so TMV must be getting mistaken for a Genetic problem. Any opinions anyone? I would love to find out more about this. Everything I've read says it's very rare but Google search suggests otherwise to me. 20190828_193601.jpg 20190828_193614.jpg
 
jondamon

jondamon

Well-Known Member
bandit08 said:
Ok so I've previously posted on here with some pictures of some odd leaves on one of my Gluberry OG. TMV, PH issues or Genetics had the blame. I know it's not PH issues so its eiher TMV or Genetics. I've read every thing i can find about TMV and matched my Glueberry with every picture I've found about it. it's pretty clear that after lots of testing to date nothing has EVER tested positive for it so TMV must be getting mistaken for a Genetic problem. Any opinions anyone? I would love to find out more about this. Everything I've read says it's very rare but Google search suggests otherwise to me. View attachment 4386406 View attachment 4386407
Click to expand...

Variegation is common in plants.

Checkout variegation and see what pictures come up.
 
bandit08

bandit08

Well-Known Member
Hank Mardukas said:
Is it on the whole plant?
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Yes mate the whole plant but it only affects maybe 1 in every 10 leaves.

It's a healthy plant except like you said it's an eye sore and every time I look at It i cant help thinking it could have been better if it didnt have this issue going on which is why I want to find out more about why this happens.

What I have noticed is although its healthy it didnt grow the same as my others, it was stunted most of it's time in veg but took off like a jet when I flipped the lights, it over took most of my others within 5 days or so. Very unpredictable plant I always thought of it as a runt and still do really
 
Craigson

Craigson

Well-Known Member
Well.... chem d clone has same thing, and has for as long as its been around.
Heres a pic of my chem d as well as another.
Ive been told that you can get it to amost go away if feed super heavy on the nitrogen.
So maybe its more of a genetic deficiency than anything else.BBDFB02C-377E-4E2E-9CB6-15321B150064.pngDEBD151C-1723-4CE1-A6CC-555CA4D53AED.jpeg
 
P

piratebug

Well-Known Member
I think science got it wrong when they started labeling every species of plant that has some form of Mosaic Virus instead of simply stating that certain plant species are susceptible to contracting one form of the Mosaic Virus. Because now we have over 6,000 Mosaic Virus subspecies to date and the list continues to grow, crazy, ("Cucumber Mosaic Virus", Lettuces Mosaic Virus, Hemp Mosaic Virus, Tobacco Mosaic Virus, etc, etc), and no defining point blank "Mosaic Virus" classification. And I think that is just plain dumb because the genetic markup of all those " Plant Species Name + Mosaic Virus", are very much the same in what they do to the plant and how to visual identify it! Anyhow... if you don't want "whatever you want to call it mosaic virus" to effect a plant you are growing from a seed water dunk the seed in 112F - 116F water for 30 seconds, and then don't touch the seed with your hands or fingers, as we are the ones who pass it to seeds if we have handled a seed that has the pathogen attached to that seed. And yeah you can also use a acid dunk to clean the seed, but its not needed if you just want to remove the chance that a certain seed has the pathogen attached to it right before you germinate that seed. In other words if you are commercially selling seeds that won't immediately be germinated then use the acid dunk method to clean your seeds before selling them, but if you just want to kill the pathogen before germinating your seeds then the water dunking method is good enough to remove the chance of the pathogen effecting the plant who's seed the pathogen could be attached to. And for any plant that already has it, all of its clones will also have it, but it cannot be genetically passed through breeding! It strictly a pathogen that can only be passed (from hands to seed, or from seed to hand to seed)
 
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bandit08

bandit08

Well-Known Member
piratebug said:
I think science got it wrong when they started labeling every species of plant that has some form of Mosaic Virus instead of simply stating that certain plant species are susceptible to contracting one form of the Mosaic Virus. Because now we have over 6,000 Mosaic Virus subspecies to date and the list continues to grow, crazy, ("Cucumber Mosaic Virus", Lettuces Mosaic Virus, Hemp Mosaic Virus, Tobacco Mosaic Virus, etc, etc), and no defining point blank "Mosaic Virus" classification. And I think that is just plain dumb because the genetic markup of all those " Plant Species Name + Mosaic Virus", are very much the same in what they do to the plant and how to visual identify it! Anyhow... if you don't want "whatever you want to call it mosaic virus" to effect a plant you are growing from a seed water dunk the seed in 112F - 116F water for 30 seconds, and then don't touch the seed with your hands or fingers, as we are the ones who pass it to seeds if we have handled a seed that has the pathogen attached to that seed. And yeah you can also use a acid dunk to clean the seed, but its not needed if you just want to remove the chance that a certain seed has the pathogen attached to it right before you germinate that seed. In other words if you are commercially selling seeds that won't immediately be germinated then use the acid dunk method to clean your seeds before selling them, but if you just want to kill the pathogen before germinating your seeds then the water dunking method is good enough to remove the chance of the pathogen effecting the plant who's seed the pathogen could be attached to. And for any plant that already has it, all of its clones will also have it, but it cannot be genetically passed through breeding! It strictly a pathogen that can only be passed (from hands to seed, or from seed to hand to seed)
Click to expand...
This is exactly the kind of reply I've waiting for!! Interesting information there thanks for sharing it with me. You say it can be transferred to seed by hand and from hand to seed, so can it be passed from seed to seed? Because I germinated 2 Glueberry seeds in the same cup of water at the same time and the one is affected.

Also if there is over 6000 subspecies they all must test for the same thing otherwise you wouldn't be able to test cannabis for it. Wouldnt that mean that there is only 1 mosiac virus and almost everything is susceptible to it? Has to surely
 
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bandit08

bandit08

Well-Known Member
Kushash said:
With the poor quality pictures the best guess I have is variegation.
Why is it not a variegation?
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I dont understand what's to guess? It looks like any other plant that has the 'suspected TMV virus' I'm not looking to identify it, I've already done that. But it still only leaves me with 'suspected TMV' that's not good enough, I want to know if it could be a genetic problem that's identical to the real thing? A different virus that is also identical? Does it only show on fem seeds? Does it have any benefits? Anything I can find out is better than knowing nothing at all wether it be opinions or facts I would love to hear what everyone has got to say about it. I'm here to learn. And sorry for the shitty quality pics mate. I'll take some pics tomorrow so it can be seen properly and you can almost see a pattern where it throws them out it's not random
 
Kushash

Kushash

Well-Known Member
bandit08 said:
I dont understand what's to guess? It looks like any other plant that has the 'suspected TMV virus' I'm not looking to identify it, I've already done that. But it still only leaves me with 'suspected TMV' that's not good enough, I want to know if it could be a genetic problem that's identical to the real thing? A different virus that is also identical? Does it only show on fem seeds? Does it have any benefits? Anything I can find out is better than knowing nothing at all wether it be opinions or facts I would love to hear what everyone has got to say about it. I'm here to learn. And sorry for the shitty quality pics mate. I'll take some pics tomorrow so it can be seen properly and you can almost see a pattern where it throws them out it's not random
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I was going to move on as I feel you have confirmation bias but since you quoted me I'll throw in 2 more cents.

I can see why you would have confirmation bias if you google cannabis TMV virus you will see a ton of variegated cannabis leaves not TMV.

If you google TMV virus "edu" to learn more about TMV you will not likely find any pictures of variegated leaves just pictures of leaves with TMV.

A variegated leaf will often be split down the middle of a leaf.
Here is an example below
They are not always so attractive with a nice solid yellow on one side like this one. Sometimes it is patchy.
Yours has the same distinct look in the pics in the 1st post. Damage on one side of the leaf with the other side looking normal.

If you plant has TMV why is it not affecting both sides of the leaflet or blade?

aaa.png
 
bandit08

bandit08

Well-Known Member
Kushash said:
I was going to move on as I feel you have confirmation bias but since you quoted me I'll throw in 2 more cents.

I can see why you would have confirmation bias if you google cannabis TMV virus you will see a ton of variegated cannabis leaves not TMV.

If you google TMV virus "edu" to learn more about TMV you will not likely find any pictures of variegated leaves just pictures of leaves with TMV.

A variegated leaf will often be split down the middle of a leaf.
Here is an example below
They are not always so attractive with a nice solid yellow on one side like this one. Sometimes it is patchy.
Yours has the same distinct look in the pics in the 1st post. Damage on one side of the leaf with the other side looking normal.

If you plant has TMV why is it not affecting both sides of the leaflet or blade?

View attachment 4387502
Click to expand...
Im not claiming mine has TMV just that mine matches the suspected TMV you see so much of online. If no cannabis plant has ever tested positive for TMV then I dont see how searching Google for TMV edu will show me only pics with TMV on cannabis leaves instead of variegation on cannabis leaves. I'm sticking with suspected TMV being as we are talking about cannabis plants. Its impossible to diagnose and we could go around in circles all day but like I said there is no definite answer and I'm not looking for one. Maybe variegation is all were seeing online and there is no such thing as TMV like all the negative tests would suggest. Who knows? But I still want to learn more about what ever the hell it is that makes the leaves look like this.
 
bandit08

bandit08

Well-Known Member
I'm trying to learn about something that I dont believe to be the problem or even exists in cannabis plants and at the same time I'm trying to rule out something that gets confused with a virus that doesnt exist. The whole thing is very contradictive and confusing!!
 
Kushash

Kushash

Well-Known Member
bandit08 said:
Im not claiming mine has TMV just that mine matches the suspected TMV you see so much of online. If no cannabis plant has ever tested positive for TMV then I dont see how searching Google for TMV edu will show me only pics with TMV on cannabis leaves instead of variegation on cannabis leaves. I'm sticking with suspected TMV being as we are talking about cannabis plants. Its impossible to diagnose and we could go around in circles all day but like I said there is no definite answer and I'm not looking for one. Maybe variegation is all were seeing online and there is no such thing as TMV like all the negative tests would suggest. Who knows? But I still want to learn more about what ever the hell it is that makes the leaves look like this.
Click to expand...
Maybe I'm not explaining myself well or maybe I'm just not making sense.
I have been cranky because of an excessively hot August. Kind of like 6 more weeks of summer in the dessert because the scorpion saw it's shadow.

You didn't answer the question at the end of my post.
If you plant has TMV or other problems why is it not affecting both sides of the leaflet or blade?
Do you see any leaves split down the center with one side normal and the other side not.
You feel that it is a problem of some sort that you can fix. I feel it is not.

I have had it before in various forms with no I'll affect.
Other experienced growers have seen it with no I'll affect.
You feel there is a problem that can be resolved.

Time for me to move on. Good Luck! :peace:
 
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bandit08

bandit08

Well-Known Member
Kushash said:
Maybe I'm not explaining myself well or maybe I'm just not making sense.
I have been cranky because of an excessively hot August. Kind of like 6 more weeks of summer in the dessert because the scorpion saw it's shadow.

You didn't answer the question at the end of my post.
If you plant has TMV or other problems why is it not affecting both sides of the leaflet or blade?
Do you see any leaves split down the center with one side normal and the other side not.
You feel that it is a problem of some sort that you can fix. I feel it is not.

I have had it before in various forms with no I'll affect.
Other experienced growers have seen it with no I'll affect.
You feel there is a problem that can be resolved.

Time for me to move on. Good Luck! :peace:
Click to expand...
I did answer your question, I figured 'I'm not claiming to have TMV' and 'TMV doesnt exist in cannabis' covered all your questions but your right back at me with the same questions again. I have a question for you, how have you seen TMV before? And how have you seen other experienced growers with TMV? Are you talking about a different plant because facts are facts and there is no positive result anywhere in the world for TMV in cannabis. Please explain if you have the proof to back this up, if not please leave it at that because I feel this is making me come across argumentative and that's not what I'm here for. Have a good day sir
 
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