Top death- someone must have seen this before!

Sapphyre

Active Member
I am an organic soil medical grower -
- Kis organic soil
- Bio Bizz and roots nutes - tailored as needed. Every plant is hand watered when and what they need.
- water only vs feeding varies, may be 3:1 or 1:1 based on what the garden is looking like.
- ph in at 6.2 - 6.5, ppm of feedings land 900 to 1400 depending on what is needed.
- temps 77-80, rh 50-65%
- smaller plants under a HO flourescent light, larger plants under 1000w mh

This is a veg room question.

About 2 weeks ago, I had a Lemon Berry Sherbert plant (started from seed, from a friend) that had been fine at night- and the next morning the new growth at the top plus the uppermost 2 fan leaves was totally wilted. I thought...maybe I bumped it moving it around and didn't notice (not likely but who knows?). I let it be, and it almost perked up a bit after a day or 2 ...but the leaves then became crispy around the edges and the top never sprung back so I clipped it off.

A few days later, another plant (same strain) did the same thing.

I have now had 4 total do this. 2 LBS, 1 Jaeger, 1 Holy Grail Kush. They are about 10 weeks, all from seed, in 1/2 gallon pots. They do need to be up potted, I have been waiting for pre flowers so I can pull some but everyone keeps showing pistils (not complaining!). They have been in these pots about 5 weeks so it shouldnt be a seriously root bound issue...

About 3 days ago, my older (from a clone, in a 10 gal pot, same soil) Dream Beaver started looking droopy. She is well LST'd, and has lots of tops. Not all look bad, and she looks perky and normal deeper in the foliage. All of these plants have been otherwise healthy, and the lower portions are totally fine.

I only water when they are (almost, not barren) dry, and check all pots at least daily for weight.


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With all of the lower leaves still totally fine. Progresses to this as the plants continue to grow. I have left a couple of them, just removing the totally dead parts, and chopped a couple back to healthy growth (but it's not been long enough yet to report back on that)
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The older DB is not doing exactly the same thing- but it feels close. She has been looking a little off since her last water, which was a feeding but this doesn't look like an OD to me?
Sorry for the MH pic but it was too dark when I turned it off. She is a -little- light...which was why I fed her a little heavy. But she isn't yellow lol just strappy and droopy here and there?
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This was 12/30- same plant, just so you know I'm not a hypocondriac ;)
Something is amiss-
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Do you think these issues are related?

Any ideas to correct?

Any thoughts are much appreciated :))
 

Sapphyre

Active Member
Thanks Tom :)
I do add Calcium w feedings, I have an organic cal mg (sorry don't remember for sure the brand but can sure look in a bit when lights are back on! It is a common brand...), which I alternate w Roots Elemental - so I get the trace elements with the rotation... I add one, then the other, and keep track of who wasn't thirsty so they don't end up with water-water and go hungry lol

If these were in your garden, would you just up the calcium?
I have my TDS meter and a kit that I can use to measure N K P levels...but don't have a good way to test for the other nutrient levels.
Today is a feeding day - thanks again for your thoughts :)
 

farmerfischer

Well-Known Member
a worm or a weavel ( sorry for spelling) he said it's an all organic grow so there's a chance a pest could of been hiding in the soil..
 

Sapphyre

Active Member
Hmmm
I wish I'd have thought about that last night when I took the tops off of one of these ladies- but I will look.

Yes- I am all organic.
I am also a little weird about quarantine and pests... so I always open any new bags of soil, moisten with ph'd water in a big bucket- and put it inside to rest for a few hours / come to room temp.
While this may not be 100% it makes me feel better. I have a moderate population of hypoaspis mites that came from some Fox farms soil and that put a little fear in me lol (it took a bit to figure out what they were! Predatory mites used to control fungus gnats so...I'm going w feeling like they are a bonus ;) )

I do on occasion find a random Brown Marmorated Stink Bug in the garden. Walls corners and ceilings are all well sealed, intake air is filtered...so I'm not sure if they are hitching a ride on the door (veg room is a small free standing outbuilding), and they are supposed to eat fruits and veggies. I mention it because I've wondered if these damn vampires are expanding their diet-
I might get to squish one a week. The room is overly crowded w plants right now but I move every plant every day and things are otherwise pretty clean, so I don't think I miss any odd visitors..
On that note, I have in the last few days seen one new bug-
Fungus Gnats tend to have a very pointy abdomen and generally mosquito like shape...
This one has a rounded "butt" and I've not yet identified it.
Sorry I squished it and didn't bring it in to put under the microscope for better pics. Unidentified insects are not welcome and I wasn't about to let it fly off.

Lights come on in about 2 hours- it's just the veg room so I could go in w a light but if searching for bore holes- I want allll the light and my loop!

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Thank you SO MUCH for the idea!!
I hate the thought of some kind of borer but not NEARLY as much as I hate the thought of an unanswered mystery!!
 

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farmerfischer

Well-Known Member
every time I get ff soil it's alway full of fungus gnats.. hopefully what you got in your bag is their way of addressing the problem...I wish I could of been more help for you and good luck with your grow and solving the mystery . there is a lot of organic growers on here , hopefully one f them stumble on your problem and have the answer ..
 

Sapphyre

Active Member
Hmmm
I wish I'd have thought about that last night when I took the tops off of one of these ladies- but I will look.

Yes- I am all organic.
I am also a little weird about quarantine and pests... so I always open any new bags of soil, moisten with ph'd water in a big bucket- and put it inside to rest for a few hours / come to room temp.
While this may not be 100% it makes me feel better. I have a moderate population of hypoaspis mites that came from some Fox farms soil and that put a little fear in me lol (it took a bit to figure out what they were! Predatory mites used to control fungus gnats so...I'm going w feeling like they are a bonus ;) )

I do on occasion find a random Brown Marmorated Stink Bug in the garden. Walls corners and ceilings are all well sealed, intake air is filtered...so I'm not sure if they are hitching a ride on the door (veg room is a small free standing outbuilding), and they are supposed to eat fruits and veggies. I mention it because I've wondered if these damn vampires are expanding their diet-
I might get to squish one a week. The room is overly crowded w plants right now but I move every plant every day and things are otherwise pretty clean, so I don't think I miss any odd visitors..
On that note, I have in the last few days seen one new bug-
Fungus Gnats tend to have a very pointy abdomen and generally mosquito like shape...
This one has a rounded "butt" and I've not yet identified it.
Sorry I squished it and didn't bring it in to put under the microscope for better pics. Unidentified insects are not welcome and I wasn't about to let it fly off.

Lights come on in about 2 hours- it's just the veg room so I could go in w a light but if searching for bore holes- I want allll the light and my loop!

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Thank you SO MUCH for the idea!!
I hate the thought of some kind of borer but not NEARLY as much as I hate the thought of an unanswered mystery!!
Hmmm
I tried again and found that minute pirate bug may be the newer creature ...
They bite, should not be in the PNW, and are used by some to control thrips and spider mites?
Perhaps another additive / side effect from buying soil...
Perhaps it's just time to get my own dirt cooking! Lol

I will look for holes and fungus within the stems in a while.

Thanks again everyone :)
 

farmerfischer

Well-Known Member
I welcome having pirate bugs and lady bugs in my grows. the spider mites are horrible in my area, seems like they all move inn in the winter time here.. I also have been getting them same stink bugs lately , I assume it's because of the temp warming up here.. . my cats always seem to grab them out of the widows causing an acrid grass smell in my house..lol..
 
Your ph is too high, as well as ppm. Your ph should rest no higher than 5.9 in veg, and ppms should not exceed 950 at any stage. 250-550 for clones to young/mid veg, 550-950 for older veg. Also, make sure your light being a 1000w on older veg plants, is 3-5 feet above your canopy, and you have good air circulation on top of that canopy.

Another thing I noticed is that you have too much nitrogen in your plants, excess green is evident. Back off on the N a little bit and the ppms. Also, as Tom stated earlier, some cal mag would be a good idea as well.

I would if i were you, top the plant at the base of the dying growth, and flush the affected plants with RO or 5.8 ph water, then ease them back into nutrients, slowly feeding them each time, and start with a lower ppm, working your way up to the above levels depending on veg maturity.
 

Sapphyre

Active Member
Your ph is too high, as well as ppm. Your ph should rest no higher than 5.9 in veg, and ppms should not exceed 950 at any stage. 250-550 for clones to young/mid veg, 550-950 for older veg. Also, make sure your light being a 1000w on older veg plants, is 3-5 feet above your canopy, and you have good air circulation on top of that canopy.

Another thing I noticed is that you have too much nitrogen in your plants, excess green is evident. Back off on the N a little bit and the ppms. Also, as Tom stated earlier, some cal mag would be a good idea as well.

I would if i were you, top the plant at the base of the dying growth, and flush the affected plants with RO or 5.8 ph water, then ease them back into nutrients, slowly feeding them each time, and start with a lower ppm, working your way up to the above levels depending on veg maturity.
That may well be... I've been slowly bringing it up because of this set- Cookies Kush that has been looking N def and while I do tweak the feed for everyone...I can totally own being afraid that the others will start to go golden down low ;)
This photo was 1/6, they are looking better today.
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Now... can you have a N tox without (significant) clawing?
I mean, I see just a few leaves here and there but almost always not all the way at the top and really inconsistent...
Jaeger
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And these are the deepest green in the garden, Cherry Pie
I'm a little embarrassed to show these pix of plants that need to be opened up (lst) or pruned...but I am here to learn and share :)
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Sorry, I'm not trying to hijack my own thread!

And as always - appreciate the opinions :)
 

Sapphyre

Active Member
So...back with new pix.
I'm not so sure swisher sours isn't right on the 'cut them back and wait' premise...

So this plant- Jaeger - pic from WednesdayIMG_6581.PNG

I took down pretty far after taking this pic.
I did spray some wettable sulphur last night for a WPM appearance for those of you who will question the white on the leaves...
This was this afternoon, same plant. New growth looking better for sure.
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I found no holes, and I did notice that any major necrosis did show a little dark down the stem, but it appears to start at the sad spot and not go very far.
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There is a spot there- so I went further and everything looks ok.
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Another spot, also some darkness
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And immediately below that node, nothing
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I'll keep an eye peeled and report back w any updates.

Thanks to everyone who has weighed in, and to anyone else who wants to throw their thoughts on the table!
 
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