Total Noob using teas and I am a believer
- Thread starter GandalfdaGreen
- Start date
RedCarpetMatches
Well-Known Member
I'll meet you there with my bartering beans!!!
RedCarpetMatches
Well-Known Member
Good ingredients, but don't feel like doing the math in my state of mind. I go 3 N: 1 P :2 K with Silica during veg. Last weeks of veg equal NPK. Early flower same equal NPK. Last month 1 N: 3 P: 3 K . Take it with a grain of your un-rinsed coco salt
This is from my journeys with much trial and error. If someone has a better "ratio" PLEEZE share!!!
May11th
Well-Known Member
Ive never seen it put that way red but I like it, I always see people brew w 5 gals well its not that way for me. I just smoke old ass acupolco gold from like 6 months ago, taste like shit but im high, I hated growing that pos lol the smoke is still here because the buds look aweful and as red carpet would say its noobcake weed lol gets the job done but damn its nasty lol
RedCarpetMatches
Well-Known Member
I would just stay in OH and get a careful good head start.
GandalfdaGreen
Well-Known Member
I have never figured out my ratios too much. I just add or subtract things as needed. I really try to run an all purpose tea the whole way. The microlife will release or store what the plants needs. Keep your herd happy.
I dilute 1:3 to 1:1 depending on stages.
I dilute 1:3 to 1:1 depending on stages.
RedCarpetMatches
Well-Known Member
Understandable...I just try to cut down what I don't need much of. Gotta save money wherever you can in this hobby. Amendments aren't cheap I've learned. That's why I've started my worm bin. Best thing I've done so far. Nutrients from my garbage!!!
RedCarpetMatches
Well-Known Member
Does anyone follow the bacteria dominate rule for veg and fungi dom for bloom...or cal dom for V and Mag dom for B?
Rrog
Well-Known Member
Myth... The Canna is a grass, and so will always culture it's own bacterially dominated soil. At least that what it will do if allowed. I fear that even the most organic amongst us have a tenancy to over-do things. The plant is simple and so is its care. At least that's my approach.
RedCarpetMatches
Well-Known Member
So are you saying keep nutes, bacteria, fungal equal and it'll take what it wants?
GandalfdaGreen
Well-Known Member
I just try to stay out of my plants way.
- You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Rrog again.
RedCarpetMatches
Well-Known Member
I try to stay out of their way too....TIMMMMMMBERRRRR
Rrog
Well-Known Member
Yep. It's fun to over-think. I love to over-think. You have no idea. As long as I know the plant doesn't necessarily appreciate it or benefit from it.
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
These are excerpts from Tims' (MicrobeMan) website. He is the most knowledgeable chap I've come across when it comes to ACT's and nutrient teas. I follow his advice to the "T" (pun intended).
"In case I have not been clear enough above, our goal in making ACT is to extract, multiply and grow mostly aerobic microorganisms in as large a diversity as possible and inclusive of three basic groups; bacteria/archaea, protozoa [flagellates & naked amoebae] and fungi. (Some [vermi]compost will contain rotifers which are extracted into ACT. These cycle nutrients in similar fashion to protozoa and are a bonus if present.)
Making ACT is not about putting in ingredients which directly benefit the plants. The foodstocks used are strictly to feed or benefit the microorganisms which in turn benefit the plants.
When I jumped on the compost tea bandwagon years back I utilized the whole gambit of ingredients recommended by the current (at that time) supposed authorities. These ingredients or foodstocks included, humic acid, kelp meal, black strap molasses, baby oatmeal (oat flour), fish hydrolysate, alfalfa meal, etc. We used variations of these ingredients in our 1200 gallon ACT maker on our farm and microscopic observation showed success.
I also experimented with using some rock/clay powders as ingredients and observed differences in the microbial make up which had positive results applied to the soil and plants. The types used were mostly soft rock phosphate and pyrophyllite.
Along the line somewhere we left humic acid out of a brew and noticed an increase in microbial numbers so we stopped using it ourselves but, possibly irresponsibly, I continued to recommend it because the ‘bigwigs’ did so. It was not until I devised a method to test each foodstock independently that I began to change my tune and begin to go against the grain of the contemporary experts."
"By testing some ingredients independently in a liquid I observed;
1/ that humic acid in varying dilutions does not feed any sort of microscopically visible microbe. I observed that it actually suppresses microbial division and growth. This was confirmed by joint testing with Keep It Simple Inc. (KIS) in the Seattle area. We tested two of the most effective and popular brands. I cannot say definitively that all brands of humic acid will have similar suppressive effects in a liquid (ACT) but it is enough for me to discontinue using it or recommending it as an ACT foodstock. Please note that this does not mean that it is not good to use on/in soil….just not ACT.
2/ that kelp meal initially delays all microbial development in a liquid but does feed fungi and bacteria/archaea following 24 hours. If too much is used the effects are suppressive. From this I garnered that it should be used very sparingly and one must be prepared to brew a little longer if using this foodstock. Again, this does not mean that kelp meal is not a good thing to use in/on soil. It definitely is!
3/ black strap molasses (BSM) feeds both bacteria/archaea and fungi equally well contrary to what the A(A)CT aficionados were saying. The story was that BSM feeds only bacteria. This led to all sorts of misconceptions, even including ones made by USDA and Canada Agriculture scientists who declared that using molasses in ACT could lead to e-coli contamination. It is utter nonsense. Besides the testing I have done and ratifying assays carried out by KIS, it is common knowledge amongst many mycologists like Paul Stamets that BSM grows out fungal hyphae just fine.
4/ fish hydrolysate feeds both fungi and bacteria/archaea again contrary to the story at the time that it is mainly a fungal food. (I’m glad to see that story has now changed)
5/ alfalfa meal is also a decent all round foodstock which sometimes introduces protozoa cysts to the ACT. KIS has done more testing on this than I have.
The result of all this is that my attitude towards recipes for ACT has really evolved over the years with a trend towards the more simple. I know that there are a lot of people who place importance on creating a bacterial or fungal dominant ACT. At one time I myself was so influenced, however, the more I’ve learned and unlearned about living soil and a functioning microbial population interacting with plants, the more I’ve been led to allow the soil and plants to decide which microbes are actively needed by the rhizosphere team. What this means is that 9 times out of 10 I’m trying to create a balanced ACT with a decent ratio of the three basic microbial groups. When this hits the soil, some will go dormant to wake up later and some will be immediately put into action at the direction of the needs of the soil and plants.
The exceptions to this may be if I am attempting to battle a particular pathogen and want to attack it with a heavy fungal or bacterial (or a combo) ACT. In these situations some tweaking of recipes and timing can be helpful. If attempting these variations, a microscope is really the only way to confirm the desired microbial population. I have outlined some recipes which may trend towards a certain microbial group (or combo) or may assist with certain pathogens."
The bottom line: The proper ratios of vermicompost/compost and unsulphered blackstrap molasses will achieve a great ACT. If you want to add anything beyond that, don't overdo it. Some inputs can suppress microbial multiplication. You can always add these other ingredients you wish to use to a nutrient tea.
"In case I have not been clear enough above, our goal in making ACT is to extract, multiply and grow mostly aerobic microorganisms in as large a diversity as possible and inclusive of three basic groups; bacteria/archaea, protozoa [flagellates & naked amoebae] and fungi. (Some [vermi]compost will contain rotifers which are extracted into ACT. These cycle nutrients in similar fashion to protozoa and are a bonus if present.)
Making ACT is not about putting in ingredients which directly benefit the plants. The foodstocks used are strictly to feed or benefit the microorganisms which in turn benefit the plants.
When I jumped on the compost tea bandwagon years back I utilized the whole gambit of ingredients recommended by the current (at that time) supposed authorities. These ingredients or foodstocks included, humic acid, kelp meal, black strap molasses, baby oatmeal (oat flour), fish hydrolysate, alfalfa meal, etc. We used variations of these ingredients in our 1200 gallon ACT maker on our farm and microscopic observation showed success.
I also experimented with using some rock/clay powders as ingredients and observed differences in the microbial make up which had positive results applied to the soil and plants. The types used were mostly soft rock phosphate and pyrophyllite.
Along the line somewhere we left humic acid out of a brew and noticed an increase in microbial numbers so we stopped using it ourselves but, possibly irresponsibly, I continued to recommend it because the ‘bigwigs’ did so. It was not until I devised a method to test each foodstock independently that I began to change my tune and begin to go against the grain of the contemporary experts."
"By testing some ingredients independently in a liquid I observed;
1/ that humic acid in varying dilutions does not feed any sort of microscopically visible microbe. I observed that it actually suppresses microbial division and growth. This was confirmed by joint testing with Keep It Simple Inc. (KIS) in the Seattle area. We tested two of the most effective and popular brands. I cannot say definitively that all brands of humic acid will have similar suppressive effects in a liquid (ACT) but it is enough for me to discontinue using it or recommending it as an ACT foodstock. Please note that this does not mean that it is not good to use on/in soil….just not ACT.
2/ that kelp meal initially delays all microbial development in a liquid but does feed fungi and bacteria/archaea following 24 hours. If too much is used the effects are suppressive. From this I garnered that it should be used very sparingly and one must be prepared to brew a little longer if using this foodstock. Again, this does not mean that kelp meal is not a good thing to use in/on soil. It definitely is!
3/ black strap molasses (BSM) feeds both bacteria/archaea and fungi equally well contrary to what the A(A)CT aficionados were saying. The story was that BSM feeds only bacteria. This led to all sorts of misconceptions, even including ones made by USDA and Canada Agriculture scientists who declared that using molasses in ACT could lead to e-coli contamination. It is utter nonsense. Besides the testing I have done and ratifying assays carried out by KIS, it is common knowledge amongst many mycologists like Paul Stamets that BSM grows out fungal hyphae just fine.
4/ fish hydrolysate feeds both fungi and bacteria/archaea again contrary to the story at the time that it is mainly a fungal food. (I’m glad to see that story has now changed)
5/ alfalfa meal is also a decent all round foodstock which sometimes introduces protozoa cysts to the ACT. KIS has done more testing on this than I have.
The result of all this is that my attitude towards recipes for ACT has really evolved over the years with a trend towards the more simple. I know that there are a lot of people who place importance on creating a bacterial or fungal dominant ACT. At one time I myself was so influenced, however, the more I’ve learned and unlearned about living soil and a functioning microbial population interacting with plants, the more I’ve been led to allow the soil and plants to decide which microbes are actively needed by the rhizosphere team. What this means is that 9 times out of 10 I’m trying to create a balanced ACT with a decent ratio of the three basic microbial groups. When this hits the soil, some will go dormant to wake up later and some will be immediately put into action at the direction of the needs of the soil and plants.
The exceptions to this may be if I am attempting to battle a particular pathogen and want to attack it with a heavy fungal or bacterial (or a combo) ACT. In these situations some tweaking of recipes and timing can be helpful. If attempting these variations, a microscope is really the only way to confirm the desired microbial population. I have outlined some recipes which may trend towards a certain microbial group (or combo) or may assist with certain pathogens."
The bottom line: The proper ratios of vermicompost/compost and unsulphered blackstrap molasses will achieve a great ACT. If you want to add anything beyond that, don't overdo it. Some inputs can suppress microbial multiplication. You can always add these other ingredients you wish to use to a nutrient tea.
GandalfdaGreen
Well-Known Member
Time for straight nutrient teas. What is the longest you can brew a tea with good aeration and adding extra molasses along the way?
- You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to st0wandgrow again.
Rrog
Well-Known Member
https://www.rollitup.org/michigan-patients/583341-so-who-here-growing-true-142.html#post9793875 Bigtime Sale On Chapin Sprayer!!!!
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
MM recommends 24 hours for a nutrient tea, and 36 hours for an ACT (assuming that the only foodstock used is molasses). He has verified peek microbial populations at the 36 hour mark using a high powered microscope. I take his word on this.