Transplant Problem please help

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Wetwilly420

Member
Hi, this is my first post, so I pretty much had to create an account to post because my growing problem is driving me nuts.

from the beginning
Sealed 9ft wide by 9ft tall and 17ft long room
Co2 at 1200 ppm during lights on
Flood and drain
Aeroponics cloner
Hydroton medium in final table
Current culture nutes at 70%
next gen mega lights raised to 40” at transplant
Ph at 6.3 controlled
Room temp at 72 humidity at 58-68%
Lights are on 18/6

Problem:
I had to veg in cloner for about 4 weeks due to new mini split being installed late.
Plants ranged from 8 inches to 24 inches and mostly green but somewhat yellow and stems becoming purple.
I transplanted from aeroponics cloner to 4x8 flood and drain table while flooding 4 times a day.
I adjusted ph to 6.3 and soaked hydroton prior to transplant and raised lights to 40 inches above top of plants. There was a little bit of powdery mildew but not much. I adressed the mildew with milk and water. Very little signs of mildew now. I waited a week since transplant for plants to come back to life and saw no signs of getting healthier so I drained resevoir and did straight water and adjusted ph to 6.3 again. Its been a week since water change and a total of 2 weeks since transplant. Please help me save these guys. Thank you for any help.
 

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Larry3215

Well-Known Member
That table, and the hydroton is bone dry. Too dry. The table should never have time to dry out and especially not the hydroton.

Your flood timing needs to be far more often. Never let things dry out.

I agree - your PH way to hi. Your target range in hydro is 5.5 - 6 max. Average should 5.8 or so.

You should have lots of roots out on the table by now, but the flood timing may be causing that.

Whats your EC? I would not increase feed levels until the roots start to recover from being over dried.
 
W

Wetwilly420

Member
Thanks a ton guys. After your replies And a little more research I increased flood from 3 times a day to 7. I added 50% (.7EC) strength nutes (current culture). And also changed ph to 5.8. I will keep you updated in about a week.
 
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Larry3215

Well-Known Member
There is no single 'perfect' EC that works for every plant or every growing system or every type of nutes. Different strains and different growing techniques will need different EC levels. Heck, even if you grow several plants from the same group of seeds, some will react differently from all the rest.

Just as an example, I cannot go over EC 0.8 in my AA grows, and usually Im well under that - more like 0.4 - 0.6. My well water starts at 0.2, so my net EC is 0.2 -0.4. last rez change I went from 0.4 to 0.6, but my babies started drooping and showing very dark leaves. Last night I dropped back to 0.4 and this morning they already look a little less droopy. Because Im running AA, I can generally get by with lower EC than most other types of hydro, but it still varies a lot from grow to grow. HPA growers can also sometimes get by with lower average EC levels, but it depends on the details.

In any case, its always best to start low and work your way up. Let the plant tell you if its too much or too little. Dont go by some fixed standard or by what works for someone else's plants or system. If the leaves look pale, then increase until they look ok. If they are too dark or showing signs of burn, dial it back.

If the roots have been allowed to dry out too much, I think they may be stressed. In that case, it would be safer to increase slowly. When you start to see signs of new root growth, then consider increasing EC. It shouldn't take long for the roots to recover. A few days to a week at most.
 
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harvey_m

New Member
I'd back the co2 down considerably until you get everything else dialed in. Higher levels than our normal atmospheric level (If the lights are sufficient to support the increased metabolism) will dramatically exacerbate any other shortcoming or inadequacy in your grow setup, nutrient profile, etc. Once they start looking healthy, then raise it up incrementally. It can be quite difficult to have "perfect" plants at the level everyone says to run (1500ppm) I never could get it. Always some leaf curl, leaf burn, litle spots, etc. But plants that grew like GMO corn.
 
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Larry3215

Well-Known Member
Wetwilly420 said:
Thanks for all the input guys. Any suggestions on temp/humidity? Ill send pics soon
Click to expand...
From my reading, the "best" humidity to run at is based on Vapor Pressure Deficit - VPD.

Here is a chart. You can find more with a Google search. I, not going to go into the theory, but its basically keeping the leaves happy as far as loosing moisture too fast or too slow. Note that the ideal VPD is based entirely on temps.
Vapor-Pressure-Deficit.jpg

Thats the theory anyway. In my limited experience, I seem run into mold issues when I try to run at the ideal VPD based on the temps in my tent. The plants seem to really like the hi humidity - especially when younger, but the mold is a deal breaker for me. I end up running on the low side of ideal in a compromise.

For example, my tent is averaging about 79 F at the moment. The ideal VPD would be between 70%-75%, but I get mold running that hi. Plus my humidifier cant hardly get there even running full time. My tent leaks like a sieve. My normal humidity right now without the humidifier is in the 30-35% range. My compromise is staying in the 45-50% range.

There are lots of opinions about temps. Ive seen recommendations from the low 70's to the mid 90's. I seem to do best between about 78-82F, but most often just under 80.

As always, YMMV.
 
S

Sb84

Member
Larry3215 said:
There is no single 'perfect' EC that works for every plant or every growing system or every type of nutes. Different strains and different growing techniques will need different EC levels. Heck, even if you grow several plants from the same group of seeds, some will react differently from all the rest.

Just as an example, I cannot go over EC 0.8 in my AA grows, and usually Im well under that - more like 0.4 - 0.6. My well water starts at 0.2, so my net EC is 0.2 -0.4. last rez change I went from 0.4 to 0.6, but my babies started drooping and showing very dark leaves. Last night I dropped back to 0.4 and this morning they already look a little less droopy. Because Im running AA, I can generally get by with lower EC than most other types of hydro, but it still varies a lot from grow to grow. HPA growers can also sometimes get by with lower average EC levels, but it depends on the details.

In any case, its always best to start low and work your way up. Let the plant tell you if its too much or too little. Dont go by some fixed standard or by what works for someone else's plants or system. If the leaves look pale, then increase until they look ok. If they are too dark or showing signs of burn, dial it back.

If the roots have been allowed to dry out too much, I think they may be stressed. In that case, it would be safer to increase slowly. When you start to see signs of new root growth, then consider increasing EC. It shouldn't take long for the roots to recover. A few days to a week at most.
Click to expand...
Am I missing something?
0.4ec to 0.6ec is only 200-300ppm (500 scale)

Thats most ppls tap water.

In veg ypu should be feeding between 500 to 750ppm (500scale) (1.0 to 1.5ec)
 
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Larry3215

Well-Known Member
Sb84 said:
Am I missing something?
0.4ec to 0.6ec is only 200-300ppm (500 scale)

Thats most ppls tap water.

In veg ypu should be feeding between 500 to 750ppm (500scale) (1.0 to 1.5ec)
Click to expand...
Wetwilly420 said:
I was wondering the same thing
Click to expand...
My tap water is 0.2EC or a bit less - well water.

However, the main reason I can run that low is Im doing air atomized aero. This type of hydro is more efficient as far as the plant uptake of the nutes.

Also thanks to the AA aero, and the way I do it, I have fuzzzy roots. Fuzzy roots are a big step up as far as nute up-take efficiency.

And finally, the micro sized droplets in my root chamber float around quite a while (hang time) and as they evaporate, the nute concentration of the droplets increases. So if for example a 50 micron droplet evaporated down to a 25 micron droplet before it has time to get abosobed by a root, its EC will go UP by a factor of 8. The volume of a sphere varies as the cube of the diameter. So even small amounts of evaporation make large changes in EC.

All of that adds up to me being able to run much lower EC values than any other type of hydro except for HPA. But the HPA would also need to be done correctly and have fuzzy roots to be able to run as low as I do.

These are the fuzzy roots Im talking about.
20201202_014740.jpg

And this is the same plant up top. Doesnt look under fed to me :) She is a little droopy from low humidity - which is a constant battle for me.20201206_201706.jpg
 
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Larry3215

Well-Known Member
Sb84 said:
In veg ypu should be feeding between 500 to 750ppm (500scale) (1.0 to 1.5ec)
Click to expand...
It can vary a lot more than that - on the low side. Pretty much any type of aero will allow you to run lower EC values even if you dont have fuzzy roots.

Its a matter of 'air'ation at the root level mostly.

For example, I have probably the highest possible aeration of any hydro as far as the air to water ratio that the roots "see". Not only is my water as close to 100% DO as you can get, but the roots can also directly absorb 02 from the air - no water needed. My roots are never drowned or completely covered in water. Its a constant mist environment with no flooding of any type. If you look at that pic above, the roots have thousands of micro droplets on them with very little build up except at some of the tips.

The next step down from there would be Membrane Meniscus (outstanding system but difficult to do properly) followed by a properly done NFT. Most people waaaay over do the flow rate in NFT. Then would come LPA (again most people way over flood the roots), E/F (same thing), Hempy's, then various forms of DWC.

Within each of those categories there is a big variation due to the plants themselves of course, plus how each is implemented.

Anyway, my point is that the more air you can give the roots - without drying them out - the lower the EC value you can run. Actually, the lower you will need to run to avoid over feeding.
 
W

Wetwilly420

Member
Wetwilly420 said:
Hi, this is my first post, so I pretty much had to create an account to post because my growing problem is driving me nuts.

from the beginning
Sealed 9ft wide by 9ft tall and 17ft long room
Co2 at 1200 ppm during lights on
Flood and drain
Aeroponics cloner
Hydroton medium in final table
Current culture nutes at 70%
next gen mega lights raised to 40” at transplant
Ph at 6.3 controlled
Room temp at 72 humidity at 58-68%
Lights are on 18/6

Problem:
I had to veg in cloner for about 4 weeks due to new mini split being installed late.
Plants ranged from 8 inches to 24 inches and mostly green but somewhat yellow and stems becoming purple.
I transplanted from aeroponics cloner to 4x8 flood and drain table while flooding 4 times a day.
I adjusted ph to 6.3 and soaked hydroton prior to transplant and raised lights to 40 inches above top of plants. There was a little bit of powdery mildew but not much. I adressed the mildew with milk and water. Very little signs of mildew now. I waited a week since transplant for plants to come back to life and saw no signs of getting healthier so I drained resevoir and did straight water and adjusted ph to 6.3 again. Its been a week since water change and a total of 2 weeks since transplant. Please help me save these guys. Thank you for any help.
Click to expand...
So it doesnt look like my larger plants in my pictures are going to turn around even though its been a week. Its been a couple years since ive grew regularly but from my memory I dont remember having this much trouble with transplant from cloner (under t5) to clayrock flood and drain (under nextlight mega). Should I be using my RO machine. Never did years before. Also room is sealed. I have co2 and I did have it around 1100-1350ppm. Also my town water comes out around 230ppm.
 
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Larry3215

Well-Known Member
I doubt RO water will help. Someone above suggested dropping the C02.

What is your light level watts per sq ft? Might not hurt to lower it down until they recover.

Is there any sign of new root growth? It might be worth taking a look at those roots - un-pot one of the sick ones. They may just be too far gone or serious root rot may have set in after the drying out.
 
W

Wetwilly420

Member
Here is my 1 week update. Please someone shoot me.FML. Im lost. Grew same way for 8 years and never had problems like this.( its been 3 years since i last grew)
 

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