Trimming

FullDuplex

Well-Known Member
Quick Question....

My plant is well into its 6th week and i am beginning to start its flower stage in the next week or so.

but my question is in preperation for the event of 12/12 should i trim out some of the lower foliage to allow light to the nodes? I have done well this far and dont want to f it up. here is a shot of one angle.

Any ideas will help

 

frmrboi

Well-Known Member
if your planning on flowering with cfls then I'd prune out the bottom growth as the light won't penetrate much deeper than 6 inches max.
 

bricktown73

Well-Known Member
if your planning on flowering with cfls then I'd prune out the bottom growth as the light won't penetrate much deeper than 6 inches max.
Your plant looks nice and healthy, why fix what isn't broken. There are many debates on wheater trimming is benificial to overall bud yield, I think it depends on your method of grow. Like the previous posters mentiond your using CFL's so I would try to free up some space in your plant to get some light in there. But, like I said it depends on your method of grow... If your growing SOG, you don't need to trim becuase your growing just he top cola... Your choice.
 

Siddhartha

Well-Known Member
Don't trim the fan leaves. Remove all the bud forming sites below the top four nodes on each top.

It's a matter of fewer bigger buds, or more smaller buds. You're yield won't be different, but it's easier to deal with the bigger buds when it comes to harvesting/trimming. The bottle neck for your yield will be the lighting (wattage), veg time(roots and girth of stalk) and nutes, lack of CO2 etc,.. It is NOT the number of sites you're plant will start budding.
 

FullDuplex

Well-Known Member
Don't trim the fan leaves. Remove all the bud forming sites below the top four nodes on each top.

It's a matter of fewer bigger buds, or more smaller buds. You're yield won't be different, but it's easier to deal with the bigger buds when it comes to harvesting/trimming. The bottle neck for your yield will be the lighting (wattage), veg time(roots and girth of stalk) and nutes, lack of CO2 etc,.. It is NOT the number of sites you're plant will start budding.
I see your point as well as where to trim, how ever i dont feel that i am lacking on nutes, as i am using the FF trio and it has taken the growth to a new level its aggressive and shows huge amounts of gain every day.

The stalks on my plants is about the girth of a philly titan so i figure there doing rather well. as far as the lighting goes all together i am at 156 watts. I know that there is a huge difference in HPS, MH and CFL light production. but i have not seen another CFL grow with my kid of results. Most are either stretched or deprived of light all together.

As far as removing all the bud forming sites, i am not sure what you actually mean.
 

Siddhartha

Well-Known Member
Your plant looks excellent and you've been doing everything right to this point to get it like it is, and I don't see any reason to think your plants' performance won't continue. By bud sites, I mean flowers and you won't see those until the plant starts flowering.

There are a combination of factors which contribute to bud formation and there is a maximum amount of budding that a plant will go through. You of course want to get as close to the maximum bud production as you can. Nutrient uptake is one factor,.. it has to be in the soil and so you've got that covered with what you're doing. The factors affecting the efficiency of nutrient uptake, is soil moisture, pH root surface area and the girth of the stalk. I think you're probably set in these areas. Then there's processing nutrients into plant material, which occurs through using respiration (CO2) and light. There's already enough CO2 to get close to the maximum in the air, but it of course could be supplemented to get you closer.

That leaves lighting, and you'd want around 10,000 lumens or more per square foot, and you'd want the intensity to be the same at the top as at the bottom and the spectrum to be as similar to sunlight as possible. The only way this is close to possible is by surrounding your plant with CFL's. Most all man-made lights have a part of the spectrum, and some have most of the spectrum but are more intense in only part of it, hence the need to switch lights when going from veg growth to flowering. Man made lights also diminish in intensity the further you get from the bulb. Think of a sphere around the bulb, the smaller it is, the more intense the light hitting it. The larger the sphere the more spread out the light is, or less intense. With sunlight that amount diminishes so little over the height of a plant that, you could say it doesn't. That means buds at the bottom, if not covered, will get the same lighting as buds on top. With CFL's the light that sphere sees diminishes very rapidly as you go larger (further from the bulb). Your plant is short right now, but it will get larger and you'll need some side lighting, unless you go through efforts to keep it short.

Not to ramble, but this brings me to my point. When your plants start flowering, you'll see buds develop at each node where each fan leaf joins the stems. In order for each of these buds to grow to their maximum potential they need to be provided with all of the light they can use. That's pretty tough to do with an indoor grow. Even HID's will light the tops a lot better than the sides and virtully no light gets to the bottom or interior. The buds that don't get light will stay fairly small, and production will move to the buds where light intensity is higher.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the only time I would not remove the tiny flowers as they form on the interior and bottom of the plant where it won't get light, is if I was growing with the maximum light my plant could use, with stalk/roots that are big enough to provide more nutrients than it could convert, and the perfect combination of CO2, temps, moisture and ferts.

If one of these isn't at the max, then you might as well snip some of the buds that won't grow large, and let the production occur where the buds are getting the most light.

Let's take a completely theoretical example,.. let's say your plant develops 30 bud sites (flowers)

Let's also say for example you provide enough stuff, for the plant to produce 10 ozs of bud, BUT under optimal conditions you'd see 12 ounces of bud.

Now let's say you did provide the optimal conditions,.. you could still snip some of the weaker sites, and the larger sites would make up the difference,.. but you may get 11.7 ounces, but instead of 25 popcorn buds, and 5 big ones, you'd get 8 popcorn buds, and 8 big ones. Still almost the same weight but less trimming.

In your situation, where you'll get 10 oz's because your'e not growing outdoors at the equator,.. you'd get 26 popcorn buds and 4 big ones for 10 oz's,.. or you could trim a bit, and get 8 popcorn buds and 6 real big ones and the plant, will still give you 10 oz's.

These numbers are no where near realistic, but you get my point. The more you grow, the less effort you'll want to have to put in during harvesting, and the best way is to combine smaller buds into large ones.

If you do some researching, you may see where some folks only grow one main stalk with one bud at the top in small pots and have lots of plants under their light. They'll get the same yield (if done right) as the folks who grow a few plants with multiple tops like yours. The difference is the harvest and the number of buds each grower is dealing with.

Honestly, for you with only one plant. You may not care about trimming little buds, and to maximize your yield which may only be grams or less in difference, you may want to let it go as is. If you had two plants, I'd suggest trimming one, and letting the other go. Then you could see for yourself the difference between properly coaxing the plant into putting all the yield into the largest buds, and just letting the plant decide where it wants to develop bud material.

Sorry, I wrote a book as a response.
 

FullDuplex

Well-Known Member
Your plant looks excellent and you've been doing everything right to this point to get it like it is, and I don't see any reason to think your plants' performance won't continue. By bud sites, I mean flowers and you won't see those until the plant starts flowering.

There are a combination of factors which contribute to bud formation and there is a maximum amount of budding that a plant will go through. You of course want to get as close to the maximum bud production as you can. Nutrient uptake is one factor,.. it has to be in the soil and so you've got that covered with what you're doing. The factors affecting the efficiency of nutrient uptake, is soil moisture, pH root surface area and the girth of the stalk. I think you're probably set in these areas. Then there's processing nutrients into plant material, which occurs through using respiration (CO2) and light. There's already enough CO2 to get close to the maximum in the air, but it of course could be supplemented to get you closer.

That leaves lighting, and you'd want around 10,000 lumens or more per square foot, and you'd want the intensity to be the same at the top as at the bottom and the spectrum to be as similar to sunlight as possible. The only way this is close to possible is by surrounding your plant with CFL's. Most all man-made lights have a part of the spectrum, and some have most of the spectrum but are more intense in only part of it, hence the need to switch lights when going from veg growth to flowering. Man made lights also diminish in intensity the further you get from the bulb. Think of a sphere around the bulb, the smaller it is, the more intense the light hitting it. The larger the sphere the more spread out the light is, or less intense. With sunlight that amount diminishes so little over the height of a plant that, you could say it doesn't. That means buds at the bottom, if not covered, will get the same lighting as buds on top. With CFL's the light that sphere sees diminishes very rapidly as you go larger (further from the bulb). Your plant is short right now, but it will get larger and you'll need some side lighting, unless you go through efforts to keep it short.

Not to ramble, but this brings me to my point. When your plants start flowering, you'll see buds develop at each node where each fan leaf joins the stems. In order for each of these buds to grow to their maximum potential they need to be provided with all of the light they can use. That's pretty tough to do with an indoor grow. Even HID's will light the tops a lot better than the sides and virtully no light gets to the bottom or interior. The buds that don't get light will stay fairly small, and production will move to the buds where light intensity is higher.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the only time I would not remove the tiny flowers as they form on the interior and bottom of the plant where it won't get light, is if I was growing with the maximum light my plant could use, with stalk/roots that are big enough to provide more nutrients than it could convert, and the perfect combination of CO2, temps, moisture and ferts.

If one of these isn't at the max, then you might as well snip some of the buds that won't grow large, and let the production occur where the buds are getting the most light.

Let's take a completely theoretical example,.. let's say your plant develops 30 bud sites (flowers)

Let's also say for example you provide enough stuff, for the plant to produce 10 ozs of bud, BUT under optimal conditions you'd see 12 ounces of bud.

Now let's say you did provide the optimal conditions,.. you could still snip some of the weaker sites, and the larger sites would make up the difference,.. but you may get 11.7 ounces, but instead of 25 popcorn buds, and 5 big ones, you'd get 8 popcorn buds, and 8 big ones. Still almost the same weight but less trimming.

In your situation, where you'll get 10 oz's because your'e not growing outdoors at the equator,.. you'd get 26 popcorn buds and 4 big ones for 10 oz's,.. or you could trim a bit, and get 8 popcorn buds and 6 real big ones and the plant, will still give you 10 oz's.

These numbers are no where near realistic, but you get my point. The more you grow, the less effort you'll want to have to put in during harvesting, and the best way is to combine smaller buds into large ones.

If you do some researching, you may see where some folks only grow one main stalk with one bud at the top in small pots and have lots of plants under their light. They'll get the same yield (if done right) as the folks who grow a few plants with multiple tops like yours. The difference is the harvest and the number of buds each grower is dealing with.

Honestly, for you with only one plant. You may not care about trimming little buds, and to maximize your yield which may only be grams or less in difference, you may want to let it go as is. If you had two plants, I'd suggest trimming one, and letting the other go. Then you could see for yourself the difference between properly coaxing the plant into putting all the yield into the largest buds, and just letting the plant decide where it wants to develop bud material.

Sorry, I wrote a book as a response.

Amazing, and thank you. This is how i learn. For right now i am going to let go as is. This is my first grow and its been doing great this far. I figure this time let it do it its self and then the next round play a little more.

Thanks for the feedback and the compliments on the plant. I have been anal about everything with this plant. From PPM, pH, and measuring correct Nute amounts i have received amazing results.
I went to flower today so well see where it goes from here. Ill post a few pics from today
 

somebody041

Well-Known Member
Your plant looks excellent and you've been doing everything right to this point to get it like it is, and I don't see any reason to think your plants' performance won't continue. By bud sites, I mean flowers and you won't see those until the plant starts flowering.

There are a combination of factors which contribute to bud formation and there is a maximum amount of budding that a plant will go through. You of course want to get as close to the maximum bud production as you can. Nutrient uptake is one factor,.. it has to be in the soil and so you've got that covered with what you're doing. The factors affecting the efficiency of nutrient uptake, is soil moisture, pH root surface area and the girth of the stalk. I think you're probably set in these areas. Then there's processing nutrients into plant material, which occurs through using respiration (CO2) and light. There's already enough CO2 to get close to the maximum in the air, but it of course could be supplemented to get you closer.

That leaves lighting, and you'd want around 10,000 lumens or more per square foot, and you'd want the intensity to be the same at the top as at the bottom and the spectrum to be as similar to sunlight as possible. The only way this is close to possible is by surrounding your plant with CFL's. Most all man-made lights have a part of the spectrum, and some have most of the spectrum but are more intense in only part of it, hence the need to switch lights when going from veg growth to flowering. Man made lights also diminish in intensity the further you get from the bulb. Think of a sphere around the bulb, the smaller it is, the more intense the light hitting it. The larger the sphere the more spread out the light is, or less intense. With sunlight that amount diminishes so little over the height of a plant that, you could say it doesn't. That means buds at the bottom, if not covered, will get the same lighting as buds on top. With CFL's the light that sphere sees diminishes very rapidly as you go larger (further from the bulb). Your plant is short right now, but it will get larger and you'll need some side lighting, unless you go through efforts to keep it short.

Not to ramble, but this brings me to my point. When your plants start flowering, you'll see buds develop at each node where each fan leaf joins the stems. In order for each of these buds to grow to their maximum potential they need to be provided with all of the light they can use. That's pretty tough to do with an indoor grow. Even HID's will light the tops a lot better than the sides and virtully no light gets to the bottom or interior. The buds that don't get light will stay fairly small, and production will move to the buds where light intensity is higher.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the only time I would not remove the tiny flowers as they form on the interior and bottom of the plant where it won't get light, is if I was growing with the maximum light my plant could use, with stalk/roots that are big enough to provide more nutrients than it could convert, and the perfect combination of CO2, temps, moisture and ferts.

If one of these isn't at the max, then you might as well snip some of the buds that won't grow large, and let the production occur where the buds are getting the most light.

Let's take a completely theoretical example,.. let's say your plant develops 30 bud sites (flowers)

Let's also say for example you provide enough stuff, for the plant to produce 10 ozs of bud, BUT under optimal conditions you'd see 12 ounces of bud.

Now let's say you did provide the optimal conditions,.. you could still snip some of the weaker sites, and the larger sites would make up the difference,.. but you may get 11.7 ounces, but instead of 25 popcorn buds, and 5 big ones, you'd get 8 popcorn buds, and 8 big ones. Still almost the same weight but less trimming.

In your situation, where you'll get 10 oz's because your'e not growing outdoors at the equator,.. you'd get 26 popcorn buds and 4 big ones for 10 oz's,.. or you could trim a bit, and get 8 popcorn buds and 6 real big ones and the plant, will still give you 10 oz's.

These numbers are no where near realistic, but you get my point. The more you grow, the less effort you'll want to have to put in during harvesting, and the best way is to combine smaller buds into large ones.

If you do some researching, you may see where some folks only grow one main stalk with one bud at the top in small pots and have lots of plants under their light. They'll get the same yield (if done right) as the folks who grow a few plants with multiple tops like yours. The difference is the harvest and the number of buds each grower is dealing with.

Honestly, for you with only one plant. You may not care about trimming little buds, and to maximize your yield which may only be grams or less in difference, you may want to let it go as is. If you had two plants, I'd suggest trimming one, and letting the other go. Then you could see for yourself the difference between properly coaxing the plant into putting all the yield into the largest buds, and just letting the plant decide where it wants to develop bud material.

Sorry, I wrote a book as a response.
hey thanks! i have two successful grows under my belt and have done little to no trimming under my 1000watt hps lights. this next run i am thinking about pruning effectively to get more big nugs and less popcorn. i found your response extremely informative and helpful.

also, your avatar kicks ass
 

FullDuplex

Well-Known Member
hey thanks! i have two successful grows under my belt and have done little to no trimming under my 1000watt hps lights. this next run i am thinking about pruning effectively to get more big nugs and less popcorn. i found your response extremely informative and helpful.

also, your avatar kicks ass
See thats my goal on the next go around. i will do more trimming. I wanted to get a handle on growing first. Now it will be time to experiment, being more confident with the grow and knowing the plant a little better
 
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