Turning dark dabs to amber

Keighan

Keighan

Well-Known Member
Is there a way to lighten the color of your BHO? I've read, read, read again, and tried skunk pharms tech's on the polishing extracts post, but I still can't get it to lighten, any ideas? Experience? I have mostly an unlimited supply of medical trim, but it's very finely ground, and is a mix of 20+ strains from a medical warehouse operation, but I can't get these dabs to lighten up and unfortunately there's no market for dark dabs around my uneducated parts, and if my patients turn it down I'm doing them and myself an injustice, so please throw some advice my way.and the oil never reaches above 120 degrees so it's not dark from the purge.
 
Fadedawg

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Keighan said:
Is there a way to lighten the color of your BHO? I've read, read, read again, and tried skunk pharms tech's on the polishing extracts post, but I still can't get it to lighten, any ideas? Experience? I have mostly an unlimited supply of medical trim, but it's very finely ground, and is a mix of 20+ strains from a medical warehouse operation, but I can't get these dabs to lighten up and unfortunately there's no market for dark dabs around my uneducated parts, and if my patients turn it down I'm doing them and myself an injustice, so please throw some advice my way.and the oil never reaches above 120 degrees so it's not dark from the purge.
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The dark colors are C-30 sized molecules, so one way to lighten is to extract at subzero temperatures, so as to not extract them in the first place.

You can also bleach it using bentonite clays, and around here dark oil is typically turned into clear using short path distillation.
 
Keighan

Keighan

Well-Known Member
gwpharms said:
Filtration is one way. See the before and after pics
Extraction:distillation:filtration:recrystallization. The 4 basic corner stones of chemistry
What have you tried?


Or, just Loose the butane. That will open up many doors for you
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I've tried a non-polar/polar/saturated-water wash (with no luck), I've tried complete dehydration before blast, frozen butane and trim(while doing extraction in -20 weather outside), and a couple other self experiments which didn't provide great results.
Fadedawg said:
The dark colors are C-30 sized molecules, so one way to lighten is to extract at subzero temperatures, so as to not extract them in the first place.

You can also bleach it using bentonite clays, and around here dark oil is typically turned into clear using short path distillation.
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I haven't ran across short path distillation, so I appreciate you turning me onto it, my brains been hard at work since seeing the suggestion.
 
gwpharms

gwpharms

Well-Known Member
Keighan said:
I've tried a non-polar/polar/saturated-water wash (with no luck), I've tried complete dehydration before blast, frozen butane and trim(while doing extraction in -20 weather outside), and a couple other self experiments which didn't provide great results.

I haven't ran across short path distillation, so I appreciate you turning me onto it, my brains been hard at work since seeing the suggestion.
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If your goal is to simply clear things up,
fractioning cannabis oils via short path distillation is very inefficient impractical and just plain all around difficult and time consuming with analytical glassware. And since washing and sub zero extraction is not working for you, I'd recommend filtration. Cheap quick and easy. (Recrystallization is a whole different ball game that you wont want to go to)
What your trying to do is akin to what beer wine and spirit distillers do to clarify purify and stablize their products. Bentonite(s) cellite(s) and activated carbon to name but a few that are commonly used. There is several types or formulations of each so research which ones might suit your needs and is within your means.
and then experiment!
It would be alot cheaper and way less frustrating than buying into one of those short path distillation kits.
 
Keighan

Keighan

Well-Known Member
gwpharms said:
If your goal is to simply clear things up,
fractioning cannabis oils via short path distillation is very inefficient impractical and just plain all around difficult and time consuming with analytical glassware. And since washing and sub zero extraction is not working for you, I'd recommend filtration. Cheap quick and easy. (Recrystallization is a whole different ball game that you wont want to go to)
What your trying to do is akin to what beer wine and spirit distillers do to clarify purify and stablize their products. Bentonite(s) cellite(s) and activated carbon to name but a few that are commonly used. There is several types or formulations of each so research which ones might suit your needs and is within your means.
and then experiment!
It would be alot cheaper and way less frustrating than buying into one of those short path distillation kits.
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Ya that was one of my concerns the reports on the short path yields, I appreciate the help I'll do some research and post back. I'll get some pics shortly to.
 
gwpharms

gwpharms

Well-Known Member
its not impossible to fraction cannabis via short path but it is very tricky
and not nearly efficient as the companies selling the short path systems make it sound.
If money is no problem, there are some apparatus available which are highly efficient and make a better "turn key" business investment. Starting at around 20k i believe
The newly developing method of operation seems to be
1:blast some quick and easy bho pile that looks like shit puked using whatever brainless extraction techniques
2: wash winterize and transfer said pile to cannabis oil fractioning system such as the pope aparatus and collect fractions
3:mix colected fractions accordongly to create your desired oil mixture[/QUOTE]
 
Fadedawg

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Keighan said:
I've tried a non-polar/polar/saturated-water wash (with no luck), I've tried complete dehydration before blast, frozen butane and trim(while doing extraction in -20 weather outside), and a couple other self experiments which didn't provide great results.

I haven't ran across short path distillation, so I appreciate you turning me onto it, my brains been hard at work since seeing the suggestion.
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Short path distillation has been around, but we only recently started to see it used extensively in the cannabis community, and now its ubiquitous.

Because of the popularity, competition has brought the price down some, but alas not necessarily the quality levels up, so we ended up building our own 20L system, as well as a rolled thin film molecular still (Trommel) for higher volume.

We do our short path under less than 15,000 microns and start around 185C for the monoterpenes, and finishing off around 220C for the phenolic diterpenoids.

Pharmer Joe has also rerun the black fraction up to 300C, and recovered a dark clear component, that is mostly Delta 8.
 
O

oswizzle

Well-Known Member
If cost is no issue... which is the most user friendly turn key system via short path...

Take Winterized Oil and making into the Clear
 
gwpharms

gwpharms

Well-Known Member
Probably the pope aparatus. I dont know though.
There is still a huge learning curve to be able to operate one. Probably be wise to hire an organic chemist to go along with it. At least temporary to train you and your staff.
oswizzle said:
If cost is no issue... which is the most user friendly turn key system via short path...

Take Winterized Oil and making into the Clear
Click to expand...
 
Fadedawg

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
oswizzle said:
If cost is no issue... which is the most user friendly turn key system via short path...

Take Winterized Oil and making into the Clear
Click to expand...
I will leave that answer to others, because Pharmer Joe ended up building the short path system we use, as well as the Trommel molecular still for Pharmgold. He uses a local scientific glass resource , and modified an AI oven for short path.

I don't remember whose chillers he ended up with, but I remember it was different than Tempco Fisher, whom made the ones we used at WW's.

He designed his system after playing with a borrowed unit, and helping other brothers and sisters hither and yon set up processes with their "store bought" turn key units, so he is who I would ask whose out of the box system he most covets and marvels at.

As I have an NDA in place with PJoe, if you will ask me the same question at [email protected], I'll reply with a three way, and you can pick his keen alleged minds on the subject yourself.
 
Fadedawg

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
gwpharms said:
www.popeinc.com
The terms short path and fractional distillation are thrown around loosely and can be misleading. Its actually molecular sorting or hot vapor distillation
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The Pope is a wiped film molecular still. The Meyers is the closest US competitor and a centrifugal thin film molecular still. The Trommel was a rotary film molecular still.

They generate the thin film by different means, but all use high vacuum and controlled heat, to vaporize the three an a half major fractions, IE, C-10 Monoterpenes, C-15 Sesquiterpenes, C-21 Diterpenoids, and C-30 other. They are faster than just a short path, because the generated thin film increases their evaporation rates.

They are also quite a bit more expensive, and unless you have the volume to generate an attractive ROI/ROA, a short path is a better short term investment.
 
S

Stressknot

New Member
Fadedawg said:
The Pope is a wiped film molecular still. The Meyers is the closest US competitor and a centrifugal thin film molecular still. The Trommel was a rotary film molecular still.

They generate the thin film by different means, but all use high vacuum and controlled heat, to vaporize the three an a half major fractions, IE, C-10 Monoterpenes, C-15 Sesquiterpenes, C-21 Diterpenoids, and C-30 other. They are faster than just a short path, because the generated thin film increases their evaporation rates.

They are also quite a bit more expensive, and unless you have the volume to generate an attractive ROI/ROA, a short path is a better short term investment.
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Very appreciative of the information!

Invested with a friend on a 20L rotovap and planning to purchase the short path very soon. We are aware of the costs which seem to mostly come from the chiller and pump required with the system.
I have been looking at Summit Research short path setups. They are in California not too far from me, and seem to be very forward with info and free videos.
Do you have any recommendations for who you would chose to purchase a system from?
I admittedly don't have my head wrapped completely around the chemistry. The shop where we will be using the equipment is next door to a distillery where we've made friends with an organic chemist interested in the project..so that's a huge bonus.
 
gwpharms

gwpharms

Well-Known Member
Stressknot said:
Very appreciative of the information!

Invested with a friend on a 20L rotovap and planning to purchase the short path very soon. We are aware of the costs which seem to mostly come from the chiller and pump required with the system.
I have been looking at Summit Research short path setups. They are in California not too far from me, and seem to be very forward with info and free videos.
Do you have any recommendations for who you would chose to purchase a system from?
I admittedly don't have my head wrapped completely around the chemistry. The shop where we will be using the equipment is next door to a distillery where we've made friends with an organic chemist interested in the project..so that's a huge bonus.
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Learn more on your own before you buy into one of those overpriced short path kits. Everything they sell can be purchased cheaper from the manufacturer. For example all the glassware you need costs less than $300
Mantles are often way over priced in these packages and imo way under powered. Call glascol or azzota directly explain your needs they will put you in the right heat source. Beware of the kits selling hot plates with aluminum bowls.
Water baths are expesive every where but the one you need for this process can be gotten for under $1000
Roto vaps, while very cool, is a very expensive toy if your using it to just reclaim alchohol. All you need is a simple distillation setup. Rotovap has better uses in cullinary science for making flavor concentrates and stuff. Mines in my kitchen. Never use it in the lab. Also if you stop using butane or co2 butane you won't need to winterize. Just extract filter fraction.
Their pump $3000. A proper laboratory sub micron vacuum pump about $1800 if you know who to ask.
and you won't have to change the oil or vent the exaughst
The vacuum pumps offered in these kits are also obsurdly expensive and the wrong pump for this type of operation. Oil sealed pumps should never be used. And right there i just saved you money on cold traps.
Learn more before jumping into bed with summit or one source and you will see what I mean. You will be smarter and glad you didnt dive into this trend with all the other lemmigs. Also fyi there is many other easier ways to obtain pure thc and collect the various other fractions. You have 4 ways. Extraction distillation filtration recrystallization. Distillation is the most difficult and impractical
 
P

phishtank

Well-Known Member
Distillation isn't THAT difficult, and if you're stuck with a product that can't be used elsewhere, it's your best bet. If you're doing any kind of volume, investing in nice equipment with pay itself off quickly.
 
S

Stressknot

New Member
Fadedawg said:
Summit Research would be one of the last vendors I would choose, based on my observations about EK's veracity.
https://skunkpharmresearch.com/attacks-on-instagram/

I get my short path information from [email protected], who operates lab making Clear and crystals, and builds his own short path and molecular stills.
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Very interesting.. What an interesting way to interact. Egos and money seem to have blinded these people. Thank you for the info ! I'll be contacting Joe.
 
S

Stressknot

New Member
gwpharms said:
Learn more on your own before you buy into one of those overpriced short path kits. Everything they sell can be purchased cheaper from the manufacturer. For example all the glassware you need costs less than $300
Mantles are often way over priced in these packages and imo way under powered. Call glascol or azzota directly explain your needs they will put you in the right heat source. Beware of the kits selling hot plates with aluminum bowls.
Water baths are expesive every where but the one you need for this process can be gotten for under $1000
Roto vaps, while very cool, is a very expensive toy if your using it to just reclaim alchohol. All you need is a simple distillation setup. Rotovap has better uses in cullinary science for making flavor concentrates and stuff. Mines in my kitchen. Never use it in the lab. Also if you stop using butane or co2 butane you won't need to winterize. Just extract filter fraction.
Their pump $3000. A proper laboratory sub micron vacuum pump about $1800 if you know who to ask.
and you won't have to change the oil or vent the exaughst
The vacuum pumps offered in these kits are also obsurdly expensive and the wrong pump for this type of operation. Oil sealed pumps should never be used. And right there i just saved you money on cold traps.
Learn more before jumping into bed with summit or one source and you will see what I mean. You will be smarter and glad you didnt dive into this trend with all the other lemmigs. Also fyi there is many other easier ways to obtain pure thc and collect the various other fractions. You have 4 ways. Extraction distillation filtration recrystallization. Distillation is the most difficult and impractical
Click to expand...
First of all thanks for the prompt reply. Waking up with new info was really nice.

Unfortunately I was already semi-duped into purchasing the rotovap. It is definitely an expensive tool for reclaiming alcohol.. But the fact is now I'm an owner of the 10L SolventVap. Although buying a short path is another pretty big expense, and in your opinion the more maticulous method, I'm already invested in the rotovap.

So- I'm focusing on trying not to make the same mistake of taking a salespersons word. But I still do intend to purchase a short path system.

The main factor of purchasing this equipment is that I have a lot of access to crude material. That is, undesirable slabs that friends have collected from bulk extractions.
I realize there are better ways to achieve the same goal using different solvents or methods. At this point, I'm looking to process said material into a cleaner more potent product. Most of the sources just don't have the time to take the next step.
 
S

Stressknot

New Member
Fadedawg said:
Summit Research would be one of the last vendors I would choose, based on my observations about EK's veracity.
https://skunkpharmresearch.com/attacks-on-instagram/

I get my short path information from [email protected], who operates lab making Clear and crystals, and builds his own short path and molecular stills.
Click to expand...
Reviewing a post on thc farmer where you had a discussion with Terpsauce and others about the rotovap and distillation.
He claims that after winterization and then using the rotovap to remove the etoh, you would be left with a 0ppm raw clear absolute. Is this true?
Depending on weather or not you're trying to isolate the terps as well?

Also interested in the carbon filtering process. Is this done after winterization or during? Presumably to remove chlorophyll?
 
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