UC Roots vs. HOCL 500

Some people swear by UC Roots, while others say to use pool shock as a cheap alternative. But pool shock/bleach is actually slightly different than hypochlorous acid (HOCL, the stuff in UC Roots). But, without going into that rabbit hole of a discussion regarding the two, it seems like recent events have made HOCL readily available, so it appears that you can actually make your own nearly identical solution for cheap.

UC Roots ( 0.028% HOCL solution) (SDS says <1% HOCL and 99% water; bottle says 0.028% HOCL, 99% inert ingredients)

UC Roots, 1ga ~$80
Quck search on Amazon for 1gal 500ppm solution (0.05% HOCL) for foggers ~ $40

Dilute the HOCL 1:1 and you get 0.025%. Basically end up with 1gal for $20. At the super-low dosage required, this should last you a really long time.

Also, at a max concentraction of 7ml per gal per UC Roots, that's 7ml of 280ppm solution in 3.8L, resulting in something like 0.5ppm. 6x less than the "recommended" 3ppm of pool shock.

Am I missing anything here?

Welcome to 'tailored to cannbis' products....bend over say awww

No, UC Roots has you run a low amount .5-1ppms.
Problem with HOCL is the instability. You might have enough to last a long time but like bleach it loses potency over time.
Keep in mind that even though you have whatever PPM chlorine, it needs to be free chlorine and not combined.

5BY5LEC said:

No, UC Roots has you run a low amount .5-1ppms.
Problem with HOCL is the instability. You might have enough to last a long time but like bleach it loses potency over time.
Keep in mind that even though you have whatever PPM chlorine, it needs to be free chlorine and not combined.

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That's what I said. Somewhere around 0.5ppm. I know it's unstable, but for someone that has a large system, they can get the 500ppm stuff for way less. Or split a gal w/ a few friends? Seems like you can get smaller bottles of HOCL as well.

Bleach(sodium hypochlorite) is more stable and affordable and has been shown to be safe at 5ppm for humans and most plants.

UC Roots is watered down snake oil IMO. I've been using bleach successfully for over 10 years in hydroponics. It still works like a charm! It takes a long time for bleach to loose it's potency while UC Roots has terrible shelf life.

Both will give you the exact same result at the end of the day. Just that one of them has a fancy label and marketing. Bleach is more concentrated, has longer residual effect = less frequent application. Cheers!

Im confused. Why is there some debate over UCroots vrs bleach/shock?

They are two completely different products that do two completely different things. They are not interchangeable in any way.

UCroots is a de-scaler for preventing/removing scale build up from nute salts, hard water, etc.

Bleach is to kill bacteria.

You cannot use bleach to remove scale at concentrations that are safe, and you cannot use UCroots to kill bacteria at concentrations that wont dissolve your rez or roots. Or at least you shouldnt.

Or did I miss something?

Larry3215 said:

Im confused. Why is there some debate over UCroots vrs bleach/shock?

They are two completely different products that do two completely different things. They are not interchangeable in any way.

UCroots is a de-scaler for preventing/removing scale build up from nute salts, hard water, etc.

Bleach is to kill bacteria.

You cannot use bleach to remove scale at concentrations that are safe, and you cannot use UCroots to kill bacteria at concentrations that wont dissolve your rez or roots. Or at least you shouldnt.

Or did I miss something?

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The uc roots product we are taking about is for preventing pythium...well thats its primary function anyways.

Bleach is different from HOCL. The chemistry is similar, but they are completely different things. HOCL (UC Roots) is what they use in disinfectant foggers. Much higher oxidation power at lower doses. Electrolysis of NaCL solution is used to creat this, but you need a membrane to separate the OH- and H+ ions or the HOCL will revert or something. Sure, bleach works, but you need much more of it. This is why HOCL is better.

Then there's another CL chemical that is viable... ClO2. Chlorine Dioxide, which is stabilized w/ citric acid. Also super cheap and supposed to be significantly more effective. Both HOCl and ClO2 have been used in hydro and have been shown to be more effective than bleach. Companies are just charging a ton of money for stuff that's almost as cheap as bleach. Probably not a big deal for the average grower though.

Ok, I was confused by their product description. They claim it is a de-scaler with no mention of other uses. I had to find the MSDS to see its HOCL.

There are some advantages to useing HOCL - mainly its not an irritant, and can be somewhat more effective, but chlorine bleach/shock is about 1/1000th the cost and probably 98% as effective at killing bugs.

Chlorine Dioxide is good shit but I wouldn't just handle that stuff without having any kind of lab experience.
Significantly better than pretty much anything else though is right.
I think of HOCL as more refined bleach. Its the better half of the reaction which happens when a bleach/shock hits water. PH dependent of course.
I would use HOCL over bleach though.
Since the 'rona it has become quite popular. I saw an HOCL spray in a little aerosol bottle at Walmart for 4 bucks but it was only like 1oz lol.
Someone is making a mint.

5BY5LEC said:

I saw an HOCL spray in a little aerosol bottle at Walmart for 4 bucks but it was only like 1oz lol.
Someone is making a mint.

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I would also question if it is actually HOCL in the bottle. Lots of reports of hand sanitizer with methanol in it for example. Lots of unethical profiteers out there.

Wastei said:

Bleach(sodium hypochlorite) is more stable and affordable and has been shown to be safe at 5ppm for humans and most plants.

UC Roots is watered down snake oil IMO. I've been using bleach successfully for over 10 years in hydroponics. It still works like a charm! It takes a long time for bleach to loose it's potency while UC Roots has terrible shelf life.

Both will give you the exact same result at the end of the day. Just that one of them has a fancy label and marketing. Bleach is more concentrated, has longer residual effect = less frequent application. Cheers!

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How exactly are you implementing the bleach? Like say for a 40ish gallon system how much would you add?

Stomate said:

How exactly are you implementing the bleach? Like say for a 40ish gallon system how much would you add?

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Chlorine dilution calculator I use this. It's pretty self explanatory. You just put in volume, strength of bleach solution in percentage and desired ppm of final solution.

I know its a dead thread but regarding this info; not much new is popping up.
so in case people come across this in the future:
the often referenced chlorine dilution calculator does exactly this; calculates equivalent chlorine (Cl2) and not hypochlorous acid (HOCl).
In hydro you are in pH 5-6.6 which means you dont have Cl2 but only HOCl according to this:
Page 5 - Figure 2

So the calculator does not correctly adjust the content of available HOCl. The calculator divides by 1.05 where it actually should multiply by 0.7.
TL;DR: This means if you use the calculator for your desired ppm in HOCl, you will have to multiply the result of any chlorine calculator by 1.35

=> assume it says add 1ml per gal. Then add 1.35ml.

Chances are all of you already dialled in their concentrations, so you probably wont have to change a thing. Just know that you actually used only 73% of what you actually thought. Maybe someone who has root problems and wanted to use the lower minimum can go a little higher.

try_hard said:

I know its a dead thread but regarding this info; not much new is popping up.
so in case people come across this in the future:
the often referenced chlorine dilution calculator does exactly this; calculates equivalent chlorine (Cl2) and not hypochlorous acid (HOCl).
In hydro you are in pH 5-6.6 which means you dont have Cl2 but only HOCl according to this:

https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Hypochlorous%20Acid%20TR%2008%2013%2015.pdf

Page 5 - Figure 2

So the calculator does not correctly adjust the content of available HOCl. The calculator divides by 1.05 where it actually should multiply by 0.7.
TL;DR: This means if you use the calculator for your desired ppm in HOCl, you will have to multiply the result of any chlorine calculator by 1.35

=> assume it says add 1ml per gal. Then add 1.35ml.

Chances are all of you already dialled in their concentrations, so you probably wont have to change a thing. Just know that you actually used only 73% of what you actually thought. Maybe someone who has root problems and wanted to use the lower minimum can go a little higher.

Click to expand...

This is the good kind of necro post, thank you!

Regarding the difference between hypochlorite (OCl-) and hypochlorous acid (HOCl) it is the same.

If you mix calcium hypochlorite (pool shock) or sodium hypochlorite (bleach) it is very basic (pH above 10) and the hypochlorite ion (OCl-) is in its deprotonated form. When the pH is lowered to the levels used in fertigation the hypochlorite gets protonated by the acid and HOCl is made in the solution.
So if you buy some cannabis branded HOCl product you're paying for someone else to add acid to a bottle of bleach.

If the pH is reduced even further chlorine is made. Remember how you are never supposed to mix bleach with acids? Just don't do it.