UN accuses the USA of Human Rights violations

Huckster79 said:

Well the consent decree they submitted themselves to from 1982 for i beleive 35 years that severly limited their election day activities from pulling voter intimidation stunts...

The south carolina law that unclebuck postec that when courts struck it down tney said it targeted African Americans with "almost surgical precision" it wasnt just IDs..

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This is all you got? Mother jones? What a stretch.

Blacks are perfectly capable of getting IDs to ensure we have clean voting. Leftist don't believe that at all. They think blacks need to get special treatment and not giving them that amounts to racism.
Another fallacy of the lost left.

I am a little slow so maybe one of you intellectuals can help a brother out. When Bill Clinton was playing golf at the "whites only" Country Club of Little Rock, was that before the racists switched parties?

NaturalFarmer said:

This is all you got? Mother jones? What a stretch.

Blacks are perfectly capable of getting IDs to ensure we have clean voting. Leftist don't believe that at all. They think blacks need to get special treatment and not giving them that amounts to racism.
Another fallacy of the lost left.

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It was an article reporting on the findings of a circuit court

Voter id was designed to disenfranchise black voters “with surgical precision”

You voted with the ku klux klan

NaturalFarmer said:

The UN made their own bed. Blame Trump if you want but it hasn't gotten better since 2001 when the video was made, it has turned into an anti-Israel circle jerk. Abusers are welcomed to the table with open arms to join in the fun.

https://www.unwatch.org/top-10-insane-u-n-anti-israel-actions-2017/

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The sickness in the UN runs far deeper, all the way back to it's conception. It was always as much a toothless tiger as it's predecessor, The League of Nations, and as I've gotten older I've seen the politicising of the organisation.

Now the UN are saying what they said about the EU and UK a couple of years ago, and they've said more about the UK than just this whilst ignoring the real issues in the world, the whole organisation is now a cesspit which needs to be drained, destroyed, then rebuilt into something that's useful because nowadays they're as much use as a fart in a spacesuit.

In fact, why bother rebuilding it, for any successor will always end up the same way as micropenises must be waved...

NaturalFarmer said:

Do you think requiring people to have IDs is racist? I think very that notion is quite racist.
Do you think the war on poverty has helped black america? Teaching a man to fish is not racist.

Isn't black unemployment at the record lows?

Where is this racism you and your party talk about?

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I'm trying to stay out of the politics here, but the bold bit caught my eye and, coming from a country which has a mandatory ID card scheme, not just a passport or driving licence but an actual identity card (quite a handy thing, actually, the way it links to e-services makes life so easy) , I fail to see how having to show proof of identification, in some recognised form or another, is "racist".

I mean, if every adult has to provide ID, even only for certain purposes, then it can hardly be "racist" as you are not singling out one "race" (or skin colour, gender, gender identification, choice of sexuality, height, weight, hair colour, and whatever else can be described as "sensitive" in these insane modern times we live in).

UncleBuck said:

It was an article reporting on the findings of a circuit court

Voter id was designed to disenfranchise black voters “with surgical precision”

You voted with the ku klux klan

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"The Supreme Court is leaving in place a ruling that struck down North Carolina's voter identification law as unconstitutional because it was intended to suppress the votes of African Americans.

Chief Justice John Roberts issued an unusual statement Monday saying the high court's decision not to wade into the case should not be taken as an indication of the justices' views on the broader issues at stake. He suggested the high court's decision was due to confusion over the newly-elected Democratic governor and attorney general's efforts to have the state back out of the litigation and accept the 4th Circuit's decision last year voiding the controversial measure."


Did Mother Jones mention that?

Fogdog said:

It is a fact that illegal voting is practically nonexistent in this country. What problem does that law solve?

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Oh, this is where the fun starts.

This is the thing about statistics, it's all about how you break them down.

If you take the number of convictions for voter fraud across the entire USA since, according to one site I have found https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud , 1,132 proven cases of voter fraud since 1979 is indeed a teardrop in the ocean, it's insignificant. But I bet once you start breaking things down by state and year, California features much more often than Alaska as an example but I haven't even started breaking things down yet, I'll bet certain patterns will start to form.

And, of course, I must emphasise that this is only PROVEN cases, not allegations and certainly not the cases where they get away with it year upon year (isn't voter registration day the day the dead rise in Chicago? That's how the old joke goes anyway).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting it's widespread BUT it can be critical if used in the right way, and if there's any hint of dishonesty in any election then there should be steps taken to ensure that said dishonesty cannot happen, that the system cannot be abused by any side (I'll bet they're both as bad as each other, when you break things down) in such a fashion, that the election is as free, honest, open and transparent as is possible, otherwise the system gets seen to be faked and flawed so "voter apathy" becomes the way forward and that's never a good thing.

ttystikk said:

The one where the groups it targets vote too much and hinder fascists- err, Republicans- from gaining power.

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I guess that @NaturalFarmer didn't know that people illegally voting is practically non-existent. Now that @NaturalFarmer does know that illegal voting is practically nonexistent, I'm wondering if he changed his mind about voter ID laws or if he has another reason. So, how about it @NaturalFarmer , because illegal voting is practically nonexistent, voter ID laws aren't needed for that purpose. Is there a real problem that prompts right wingers want to implement voter ID laws?

Fubard said:

Oh, this is where the fun starts.

This is the thing about statistics, it's all about how you break them down.

If you take the number of convictions for voter fraud across the entire USA since, according to one site I have found https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud , 1,132 proven cases of voter fraud since 1979 is indeed a teardrop in the ocean, it's insignificant. But I bet once you start breaking things down by state and year, California features much more often than Alaska as an example but I haven't even started breaking things down yet, I'll bet certain patterns will start to form.

And, of course, I must emphasise that this is only PROVEN cases, not allegations and certainly not the cases where they get away with it year upon year (isn't voter registration day the day the dead rise in Chicago? That's how the old joke goes anyway).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting it's widespread BUT it can be critical if used in the right way, and if there's any hint of dishonesty in any election then there should be steps taken to ensure that said dishonesty cannot happen, that the system cannot be abused by any side (I'll bet they're both as bad as each other, when you break things down) in such a fashion, that the election is as free, honest, open and transparent as is possible, otherwise the system gets seen to be faked and flawed so "voter apathy" becomes the way forward and that's never a good thing.

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Is your argument that there MIGHT be more fraud and that it MIGHT be targeted at specific districts? So in order to refute your argument I'd have to prove something isn't happening? It's not possible to prove a negative. But you knew that already. The obligation is on the accuser to show evidence that shows something is happening.

ACLU says only 31 credible allegations of voter fraud since 2000 (2 per year). This is not very far out of line with your study (29 per year). Using the high estimate, in 2016, 180 million people voted and most likely about 29 people cast illegal ballots. Can you agree that there is no evidence your scenario of a turning an election even came close to happening?

If you can't agree, then where is the evidence that it has happened? It's not as if this issue hasn't been studied. Never has any credible study found evidence of meaningful level of voter fraud within the last 40 years.

In any case, these voter ID laws are being passed under the guise of protecting elections from illegal voters that nobody can show are actually voting illegally. Are we now making policies based upon unproven belief -- fears and imagined situations that have never happened since at least 1980 -- instead of facts?

With Republicans in charge, I guess we are.

Fubard said:

I'm trying to stay out of the politics here, but the bold bit caught my eye and, coming from a country which has a mandatory ID card scheme, not just a passport or driving licence but an actual identity card (quite a handy thing, actually, the way it links to e-services makes life so easy) , I fail to see how having to show proof of identification, in some recognised form or another, is "racist".

I mean, if every adult has to provide ID, even only for certain purposes, then it can hardly be "racist" as you are not singling out one "race" (or skin colour, gender, gender identification, choice of sexuality, height, weight, hair colour, and whatever else can be described as "sensitive" in these insane modern times we live in).

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The courts found republicans designed voter id laws to disenfranchise black voters “with surgical precision”

So no one cares what you think is racist. Courts determined the laws were racist.

Facts don’t care about your feelings, ya racist baby

NaturalFarmer said:

"The Supreme Court is leaving in place a ruling that struck down North Carolina's voter identification law as unconstitutional because it was intended to suppress the votes of African Americans.

Chief Justice John Roberts issued an unusual statement Monday saying the high court's decision not to wade into the case should not be taken as an indication of the justices' views on the broader issues at stake. He suggested the high court's decision was due to confusion over the newly-elected Democratic governor and attorney general's efforts to have the state back out of the litigation and accept the 4th Circuit's decision last year voiding the controversial measure."


Did Mother Jones mention that?

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I’m glad the scotus agrees voter id laws are engineered by republicans to be racist

Fogdog said:

Is your argument that there MIGHT be more fraud and that it MIGHT be targeted at specific districts? So in order to refute your argument I'd have to prove something isn't happening? It's not possible to prove a negative. But you knew that already. The obligation is on the accuser to show evidence that shows something is happening.

ACLU says only 31 credible allegations of voter fraud since 2000 (2 per year). This is not very far out of line with your study (29 per year). Using the high estimate, in 2016, 180 million people voted and most likely about 29 people cast illegal ballots. Can you agree that there is no evidence your scenario of a turning an election even came close to happening?

If you can't agree, then where is the evidence that it has happened? It's not as if this issue hasn't been studied. Never has any credible study found evidence of meaningful level of voter fraud within the last 40 years.

In any case, these voter ID laws are being passed under the guise of protecting elections from illegal voters that nobody can show are actually voting illegally. Are we now making policies based upon unproven belief -- fears and imagined situations that have never happened since at least 1980 -- instead of facts?

With Republicans in charge, I guess we are.

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What in hell's name are you talking about, where am I saying that voter fraud hasn't happened? Also, only a moron would think that an average of 29 cases per year means 29 votes in, say, 2016 as there were 50 confirmed cases in 2016 and many of them involved the use of MULTIPLE ballots. And the use of multiple ballots, especially absentee ballots, means that the numbers involved regarding fraudulent votes is not in single figures.

You were given a link to actual, confirmed, cases of voter fraud in the USA. As I say, I haven't broken down the numbers by party, state, etc, yet, that will take some time to dig every detail up, but the fact is that, like with narcotic trafficking, only a small amount truly gets discovered. All sides will be as guilty as each other, and only an idiot thinks that it doesn't happen as if a few hundred votes can swing a vote one way or another then you can bet that someone will try to pull some sort of stunt to try and make sure that that margin is in their favour. The favourite being absentee ballots (a major problem in the UK, with it known that postal votes have been sent out to people and addresses that don't exist), as trying to tamper with the voting stations can be a bit risky, although I remember something about there being "issues" in how voting in, I think, Vegas with certain areas seeming to have a lack of polling stations, but I don't think anyone proved any shenanigans there.

And even if the effect is minimal, or even irrelevant, then you have to look at it in two ways. You either take steps to prevent as much voter fraud as possible, and that includes ID as well as restricting absentee ballots, or you accept that there may well be a level of fraud and that becomes "how much is acceptable" as then you are saying that it's acceptable to have any election tainted in any way, no matter how small, by fraud.

And for the country that is the bastion of democracy, any taint on any election is not a good thing...

UncleBuck said:

The courts found republicans designed voter id laws to disenfranchise black voters “with surgical precision”

So no one cares what you think is racist. Courts determined the laws were racist.

Facts don’t care about your feelings, ya racist baby

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Got a link to that, because there are states where photo ID is mandatory yet I don't see them being told to change their laws.

I also see studies that show that the claims of "racism" are actually bunk, but I can use my own experience as an immigrant to a country where electronic ID cards are not only mandatory but must be carried at all times, and I still can't see where the "racism" comes in at all provided the scheme treats all equally.

And here it does, every adult living legally here in Belgium pays €25 every 5 years for an e-ID irrespective of race, nationality, etc, so where's the "racism"?

Fubard said:

Got a link to that, because there are states where photo ID is mandatory yet I don't see them being told to change their laws.

I also see studies that show that the claims of "racism" are actually bunk, but I can use my own experience as an immigrant to a country where electronic ID cards are not only mandatory but must be carried at all times, and I still can't see where the "racism" comes in at all provided the scheme treats all equally.

And here it does, every adult living legally here in Belgium pays €25 every 5 years for an e-ID irrespective of race, nationality, etc, so where's the "racism"?

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a circuit court determined that the GOP was using voter ID to disenfranchise black voters "with surgical precision"

that is a fact. your feelings are irrelevant.

similar findings have been made by courts elsewhere, like in texas

you are a dumb racist

UncleBuck said:

fuck you're dumb, even for a klanman


View attachment 4149609

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NaturalFarmer said:

This is all you got? Mother jones? What a stretch.

Blacks are perfectly capable of getting IDs to ensure we have clean voting. Leftist don't believe that at all. They think blacks need to get special treatment and not giving them that amounts to racism.
Another fallacy of the lost left.

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What does Mother Jones have anything to do with it, those are quotes from the judge "surgical like precision" ?

Those two facts can be found in numerous sources, the judge said that and they had to limit election day activities from 82 to 2017 because of their crooked shenanigans

NaturalFarmer said:

Give me an example of this voter suppression you speak of? How dare the require IDs to vote? What racist!

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You asked for an example, i gave you two without trying.

So tell me why they had to restrain their election day activities since 82 till last year?

Fogdog said:

I guess that @NaturalFarmer didn't know that people illegally voting is practically non-existent. Now that @NaturalFarmer does know that illegal voting is practically nonexistent, I'm wondering if he changed his mind about voter ID laws or if he has another reason. So, how about it @NaturalFarmer , because illegal voting is practically nonexistent, voter ID laws aren't needed for that purpose. Is there a real problem that prompts right wingers want to implement voter ID laws?

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Yes. From their perspective, anyone who doesn't vote the way right wonders do is a problem. It's a perception thing.

I'm not condoning it but it is essential to understand the tactics of one's enemies.

The whole notion is a fallacy regardless of what some dipshits on the 4th district says. The point about not using Mother Jones as your sources is it doesn't mention that the SCOTUS did not even hear the arguments because of a technicality not on merit.

Here is a personal question for all you leftist who blindly defend your slave loving party.

Why are blacks less likely to have IDs? Is the message you "really" are saying is that you expect less from blacks? Could it be because the leftist truly do expect less because they think less of the black community?
Equality is requiring EVERYONE to have IDs to vote regardless of who is in the picture. Not to the lestist.
"The soft bigotry of low expectations"-George W Bush

"O’Keefe claimed to be Eminem and the Detroit mayor, and poll workers offered him a ballot."

NaturalFarmer said:

"O’Keefe claimed to be Eminem and the Detroit mayor, and poll workers offered him a ballot."

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Lol.

You are not smart.