Uncle Ben's Gardening Tweeks and Pointers

Uncle Ben,

I posted a question to DocBud on another site and he told me to look you up since you are the most knowledgeable person he knows on the subject.

I visited an old friend to catch up with and turn to him on to a bud of my NL. He pulled out an old box from back in the day that had all his old bong, pipes etc. AND he had bags of seeds I had given him about 35 years ago.
A huge zip loc bag almost full with old school Oaxacan seeds. And a few other small envelopes with maybe 100 seeds in each marked; Colombian gold, Kono gold, and Hawaiian. I remember each of them being excellent smoke.

What's the chance if any that a few will sprout?
Any advice on how you would go about it to give them the best shot at sprouting?

but it offends my sense of integrity when I see what an incredible freakshow the cannabis scene has become. Wasn't this way 20 years ago, although the Dutch hopped on board with their seedbanks stuff. If it wasn't for the breeders out of northwest, the Dutch would still be sniffing tulips.

Good luck,
UB
thats cuz there is room for tweeking and peeking the potential of you plant

and it offens me when one person insistes that there way is the right way and only way to grow.. every ones enviroment is diffrent so what don't work for you will work great for some other grower.. i hate when growers insist that there experaments they do is what every one needs to do, and that is wrong...

i like to share my exp. with the closing said this works for me may not work for you...


keep um green

Just some thoughts.....

Short Bus said:

Yeah, it's the Gardener's Guide, found it used on Amazon for 80 cents and the rest was shipping. Sweet! I downloaded a pdf version after I saw everyone recomending it here, and it was good enough that I figured I needed a copy for the bathroom . Really well written, straight to the point, thanks for keeping that out there.

Click to expand...

Sheesh, that's incredible. You're gonna luv the graphs, the info in them is worth the price of the book.

Sounds like the garden's shaping up. I'm from a long line of organic veggie farmers, horse shit is the shit. I've seen my aunt and my granddad battle back and forth with their 100% horse poop ammended gardens (Granny boards horses, still, even in her 80's) my whole life, I'm talking zucchini the size of your arm, giant sweet ears of corn, beans, squash... I love to garden, pot or not.

Click to expand...

Granny sounds like a hoot. I love gardening too. Tomatoes are 7'H X 6' W at the end of the season. My okra trunks are so thick and rooted in that I HAVE to wrap a chain around them and yank them out using my tractor's bucket. We can alot too. BTW, if you haven't tried Mirai corn, you don't know what you're missing. All the hype is true on that one. I've grown corn for 40 years and it's the best, both bi-color and yellow.

I have an ancient thread in the non-weed section of the forum for veggie enthusiasts, not many responses but lots of dedicated folks who make their own food, from the ground up. I wasn't able to get horse shit this time around for my soil mix, so I went with cow, which is new to me but I'm guessing pretty similar. Except it goes through 4 stomachs. Anyway... I was wondering if you had any recomended reading on that hormone in alfalfa that stimulates veg growth? Always interested in the physio side of things.

Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with cow manure. Folks use chicken and turkey around here but it will burn up your garden unless well composted with some green matter. I have stressed pot plants going pure organic. Chemicals are chemicals whether they come from a pile of manure or a bottle. In fact, on some of the "road apples" I went through you can see a whitish film, most likely saltpeter. All the horse or cow farms/stables I know of are happy to get rid of their manure and usually have front end loader to load you up. All you have to do is make a few calls and pick it up with a pickup or a dump trailer. I rent a 4.5 cu. yd. dump trailer for $50/day, which is damn cheap. Trust me, after shoveling, unloading, a 16' flat bed by hand, that's money well spent.

My friends compost came back from the lab with a 13-5-10 NPK analysis and all micros are nice and solid, especially iron. IMO, the need for iron is under-rated in cannabis forums. I've seen many a photo of a pot plant with severe chlorosis usually induced by using high P bloom foods.

Happy gardening,
UB

Hash Hound said:

Uncle Ben,

I posted a question to DocBud on another site and he told me to look you up since you are the most knowledgeable person he knows on the subject.

I visited an old friend to catch up with and turn to him on to a bud of my NL. He pulled out an old box from back in the day that had all his old bong, pipes etc. AND he had bags of seeds I had given him about 35 years ago.
A huge zip loc bag almost full with old school Oaxacan seeds. And a few other small envelopes with maybe 100 seeds in each marked; Colombian gold, Kono gold, and Hawaiian. I remember each of them being excellent smoke.

What's the chance if any that a few will sprout?
Any advice on how you would go about it to give them the best shot at sprouting?

Click to expand...

If kept cool and clean, pretty good chance of germinating. If kept cold or frozen, your chances greatly increase. You have a gold mine, get them in the fridge for the long term. I used to smoke that stuff back in the 60's and some of it would take the top of your head off. We called the good stuff "acid grass" because it would put you on an intense high.

I'll post my germ archive. If you're a seasoned gardener and know what you're doing you don't have to follow it to a T, it just provides a bullet proof method for noobs. The soaking drill will pretty much tell you what you have within the seedcoat - an air pocket or a live embryo.

Germinating Cannabis Seeds (for Bio Growers)

Your seedlings will be alot better off if you germinate directly in soil - less handling and mechanical disturbance means less chance of physical damage to the plant's taproot (and roothairs) and less food reserves used to position itself due to the natural hormonal influence called Gravitropism. That translates into less food reserves used and increased seedling vigor, especially in the very early critical stages of seedling development.

This is my foolproof method for Cannabis Seed Germination in soil:

First, if harvesting seeds from my own crosses, I air-dry newly harvested seeds for a couple of weeks, and then store them in the refrigerator with a little rice. Cold-treatment seems to increase viability and germination rates, especially with indica-dom strains. I almost always get a 100% germination rate with quality seedstock.

Soak the seeds in plain water for 12 hours prior to planting to hydrate them, which will speed up germination. In general, good seeds will sink, bad seeds will remain floating (they contain air, not an embryo). I first sterilize seeds in a bleach solution (1 Tbsp. bleach/1 gallon of water) for 1/2 hour to kill any fungus residing on the seedcoat.

Sterilize enough *damp* fine soil with heat to germinate all of your seeds. You can do this by treating the damp soil to temps of (no more than) 200F for 20 mins in a conventional oven, or in a microwave oven on high for 2 minutes, while stirring a couple of times. Your goal is to get and hold the entire soil mix's temperature at 170F to 180F for about 20 minutes which can be monitored with a probe type thermometer. Let the mix cool thoroughly. This will insure that damp-off fungus spores have been killed in the soil mix. Make sure the soil mix is light and humusy (not real coarse). You can add a little sand or vermiculite to aid in drainage and weight.

Buy some white 20oz styrofoam "drinking glasses", commonly called "Styro-Cups", and punch holes in the bottom (and side bottom) for drainage. I use a red-hot ice pick for this. These containers are 6 1/2" tall and will allow ample room for the taproot to grow before cotyledon emergence which will increase your seedling's vigor. The taproot (radicle) is already at least 4" long at the point of emergence - don't restrict it (in order to maximize seedling growth rate). Styro-Cups can be found on the shelf displaying picnic items at your local grocery store.

Fill the pots almost to the top with your soil mix, water well to settle the mix, take a pencil and make a small hole about 1/4" to 1/2" deep, NO deeper, and drop *one* seed in. Cover the seed with *fine* soil, only enough to top up the hole, firm lightly with your finger, and lightly water until water runs freely thru the drain holes. Place in a warm spot around 80F/26C. Do NOT cover the cup with saran wrap or anything else. The seed has been hydrated from the soaking and will germinate soon. This container should not require further watering until the seedling is up and running.

During the first couple of days, mist the top soil surface lightly (if need be), never allowing the top to crust over, but not to the point that the medium stays waterlogged which will invite pythium rot (damp-off). "Less is more" at this point. Do NOT water this pot any more until the seedling is up, and only if it needs it at the point of emergence. Again, no need to cover with plastic wrap as the radicle (taproot) will grow at least 4" before the cotyledons emerge from the soil. IOW, even though you can't see it, the plant's root is seeking and finding moisture at the container's lower soil levels. I cannot emphasize this enough. The seedling will emerge anywhere from 2 to 10 days from the time you sowed it.

That's all to it! With good care, your faves will be ready to transplant within 1 to 2 weeks, and will easily slip out of the "cup" with a solid rootball that will never know it's been disturbed if potted up gently and quickly. Move up to a final pot of 3 to 5 gallons to sex and finish.

An effective transplant solution can be made using (no more than) 1 teaspoon of a 15-30-15 fert and 10 drops of Superthrive per gallon of water. Take note regarding the immediate growth spurt after this transition!

Good luck,
Uncle Ben

mygirls said:

thats cuz there is room for tweeking and peeking the potential of you plant

and it offens me when one person insistes that there way is the right way and only way to grow.. every ones enviroment is diffrent so what don't work for you will work great for some other grower.. i hate when growers insist that there experaments they do is what every one needs to do, and that is wrong...

i like to share my exp. with the closing said this works for me may not work for you...

keep um green

Click to expand...

No question about it, no two gardens are alike, nor are growers' objectives, requirements, restraints, resources, etc. What is "a given" is botany, growing the plant as naturally as possible using sound plant culture practices.

UB

thats the way i grow indoors prety much naturally with lights to boot.. hell sun light and massive air flow threw two window...

shit if it ever came down to me having to grow in a air thight enviroment i would be in a world of trouble and id be call on your expertise..

Uncle Ben said:

Just some thoughts.....



Sheesh, that's incredible. You're gonna luv the graphs, the info in them is worth the price of the book.

Granny sounds like a hoot. I love gardening too. Tomatoes are 7'H X 6' W at the end of the season. My okra trunks are so thick and rooted in that I HAVE to wrap a chain around them and yank them out using my tractor's bucket. We can alot too. BTW, if you haven't tried Mirai corn, you don't know what you're missing. All the hype is true on that one. I've grown corn for 40 years and it's the best, both bi-color and yellow.

Nothing wrong with cow manure. Folks use chicken and turkey around here but it will burn up your garden unless well composted with some green matter. I have stressed pot plants going pure organic. Chemicals are chemicals whether they come from a pile of manure or a bottle. In fact, on some of the "road apples" I went through you can see a whitish film, most likely saltpeter. All the horse or cow farms/stables I know of are happy to get rid of their manure and usually have front end loader to load you up. All you have to do is make a few calls and pick it up with a pickup or a dump trailer. I rent a 4.5 cu. yd. dump trailer for $50/day, which is damn cheap. Trust me, after shoveling, unloading, a 16' flat bed by hand, that's money well spent.

My friends compost came back from the lab with a 13-5-10 NPK analysis and all micros are nice and solid, especially iron. IMO, the need for iron is under-rated in cannabis forums. I've seen many a photo of a pot plant with severe chlorosis usually induced by using high P bloom foods.

Happy gardening,
UB

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip on the Mirai sweet corn, I'll be trying that one out this year for sure.

Uncle Ben said:

Regarding humic and fulvic acid, peat moss and compost contain extremely high amounts. Don't buy the bottle or bag, just amend your soil.

Danielsgb, hope I'm not offending you (in case you're trying such products) but it offends my sense of integrity when I see what an incredible freakshow the cannabis scene has become. Wasn't this way 20 years ago, although the Dutch hopped on board with their seedbanks stuff. If it wasn't for the breeders out of northwest, the Dutch would still be sniffing tulips.

Good luck,
UB

Click to expand...

UB, it take a lot to offend me

I refuse to buy anything Canna-specific. While looking up that time-release Humic Acid my Uncle gave me I saw AN's $200 liter of their humic acid energy bullshit. How fucking dumb do you have to be to buy that?
Money is tight 'round here, but even if I was rolling in it I would never fall into those products. It irks me as a long time gardener/landscaper.
I'm working on a soil mix that works best. For as cheap as it is I'm gonna buy a bag of alfalfa meal, then add some into my next mix, then add it to some flower beds after this damn snow melts. Getting Cabin Fever here in Montana.
I'm about to harvest a couple Purple Rain I have kept green right to the end. I've had problems into the final stretch losing the deep green. I think I was backing off on feeding too much.
Daniels

Danielsgb said:

UB, it take a lot to offend me

I refuse to buy anything Canna-specific. While looking up that time-release Humic Acid my Uncle gave me I saw AN's $200 liter of their humic acid energy bullshit. How fucking dumb do you have to be to buy that?
Money is tight 'round here, but even if I was rolling in it I would never fall into those products. It irks me as a long time gardener/landscaper.
I'm working on a soil mix that works best. For as cheap as it is I'm gonna buy a bag of alfalfa meal, then add some into my next mix, then add it to some flower beds after this damn snow melts. Getting Cabin Fever here in Montana.
I'm about to harvest a couple Purple Rain I have kept green right to the end. I've had problems into the final stretch losing the deep green. I think I was backing off on feeding too much.
Daniels

Click to expand...

Montana! Man, I bet you are getting cabin fever. It's sunny and about 70F here. Don't despair, summer is not that far off. Good luck with that Purple Rain and glad you kept it green. Do you find it makes a difference?

AN's $200 a liter!!!!!!! Who in their right mind would fall for THAT!

Uncle Ben said:

Montana! Man, I bet you are getting cabin fever. It's sunny and about 70F here. Don't despair, summer is not that far off. Good luck with that Purple Rain and glad you kept it green. Do you find it makes a difference?

AN's $200 a liter!!!!!!! Who in their right mind would fall for THAT!

Click to expand...

It's sunny and about 20 here today. I think June first is last frost but you know how it's a best guess. My season is 100 some days, so I'm jealous.
I'm drying the Purple Rain, so smoke report soon, but it looked sticky to me.

I got 2 bags of top soil to make a batch, but they are frozen in the garage still. Fuck it, I'll make my box to sift it through. Random pebbles piss me off.

It may have been $200 a gal. but either way Bat Shit Crazy. But it has Electrolytes, like Brawndo so it must be good.
Daniels

Hey UB, nice thread and I like the suggestions.

I have a question about scoring the root-ball during transplant. I have heard mixed things from exceptionally reliable sources about whether it is beneficial or detrimental.

Personally, I believe that if a plant is especially root-bound, then scoring may be beneficial. This is fairly obvious.

However, when I transplant between 1 gallons to 3 gallons and the plant had just started to fill up the 1 gallon container, I see no benefits to scoring.

Within two days I have roots popping out of the drainage holes of the 3 gallon containers without messing with the root-ball at all.

Is there a difference between how root-bound a plant is and the potential benefits of scoring when you transplant in your experience?

Thanks.

UB, keep up the good work. I read through the titles of forum topics and skip most of them: "when to mutilate your plants, how to quadruple your yields, etc.'". During my learning process (ongoing). I used to go to a hydro store (note use of past tense) for advice and supplies. Guy who worked their had two answers: check your ph, sounds like a virus. F!@#$ing moron, must post here a lot.

Slowly but surely, I have read through your posts for weeks. I use a 20-20-20 I bought for $7 bucks. Works great. Analysis is solid; it's a product made for the horticultural community not the canna crowd.

I don't believe in magic bullets; every plant on this planet has an upper limit and trying to get there is not going to happen without actually understanding what a plant needs and watching and learning. I've learned to watch my plants. I don't ph (use pro-mix but may start amending) or measure ec. I feed and watch. When i think of the money i've spent over the years on bs I groan. What i have been willing to do is admit my ignorance, start at the very beginning and learn from the bottom up. Without a solid foundation there is no true knowing only feeling and guessing. These forums are full of people who will never admit to themselves they don't know. Thus, they will never really learn and end up knowing. Instead they will live in a fantasy world that says mj is a unique plant and that AN and all the other shysters have a 'magic bullet' that will solve all their problems (near total ignorance).

You are helping a lot of people UB. Don't let the morons stop you from continuing to expound the truth.

Keep the faith.

Uncle Ben said:

Regarding humic and fulvic acid, peat moss and compost contain extremely high amounts. Don't buy the bottle or bag, just amend your soil.


Good luck,
UB

Click to expand...

Yupper, I try to put everything in the soil, then I can just water em and walk away smiling. I grow perpetual, so I work with my plants daily, and when I used to do the whole toxic soup feeding method prior to making my own dirt, I'd spend up to an hour a day just mixing the shit. I spent a while using Subcool's super soil trick, whichis good but a little strong, even used in layers as he recomends. Now I cut the strength down to 1/3, add cow shit, kelp, and recently, alfalfa. So far so good, and they tell you when they're hungry. Which is a lot easier to spot after reading this kind of thread.

Have you heard of Mandala Seeds? They have a great grow guide on their site for beginners. They do recomend some Canna products at the end, but that's after many paragaphs advising the reader to grab some good soil and not sweat the nutes unless needed. Really good, comprehensive stuff with no hidden agenda. Here's a link for anyone interested. I ordered a pack of Satori seeds from these folks a couple days ago, looks amazing.

http://www.mandalaseeds.com/Guides/Fertilizing-Smart-Guide

And I'll be trying that corn this season for sure. .

Physix, I do a lot of root pruning, many aspects of my garden are oriented around it. Here's a quick run-down on root-pruning, of which scoring is a form. All the cells capable of division in a root are in the growth tip, the very end of the root. That's why plants just spin out when the growth tip hit a surface it can't penetrate. Detaching the growth tip halts root growth temporarily, as the root can't get any longer. Instead it gets fatter, allowing greater water/nute uptake, and eventually starts budding new growth tips along the sides of the root. These lateral roots will then begin to grow out into the soil, turning an individual root into a dozen or more roots sharing a pipeline to the plant. Personally, I've found that this always ups my yield and growth rates. As far as what you were asking, it's up the individual to decide if that's gonna be the best thing to do in their situation, but that's the actual process you're initiating when you score or root-prune. Hope that's helpful.

Short Bus said:

Physix, I do a lot of root pruning, many aspects of my garden are oriented around it. Here's a quick run-down on root-pruning, of which scoring is a form. All the cells capable of division in a root are in the growth tip, the very end of the root. That's why plants just spin out when the growth tip hit a surface it can't penetrate. Detaching the growth tip halts root growth temporarily, as the root can't get any longer. Instead it gets fatter, allowing greater water/nute uptake, and eventually starts budding new growth tips along the sides of the root. These lateral roots will then begin to grow out into the soil, turning an individual root into a dozen or more roots sharing a pipeline to the plant. Personally, I've found that this always ups my yield and growth rates. As far as what you were asking, it's up the individual to decide if that's gonna be the best thing to do in their situation, but that's the actual process you're initiating when you score or root-prune. Hope that's helpful.

Click to expand...

I know what root pruning is, especially in regard to air pruning...what I was wondering is in more regard to how beneficial it is to score a plant that isn't necessarily root-bound. I suspect that the benefits of the practice diminish with plants that aren't bound.

This is based on my limited experience. I witnessed no benefit to scoring in my situation, in fact scored plants were more stressed the day after transplant. Long term benefits were not noticeable.

I haven't tested this extensively, which is why I ask.

I'd agree with what you're saying. I think the scoring bit is more to stimulate a pot-bound root system. Might be better to wait for the roots to fill the existing container before transplanting, but you know your situation much better than I do. I just find that root-bound plants tend to suffer less transplant stress than plants that haven't filled out their pot yet.

In general, plant roots respond positively to damage.

Danielsgb said:

It's sunny and about 20 here today. I think June first is last frost but you know how it's a best guess. My season is 100 some days, so I'm jealous.
I'm drying the Purple Rain, so smoke report soon, but it looked sticky to me.

I got 2 bags of top soil to make a batch, but they are frozen in the garage still. Fuck it, I'll make my box to sift it through. Random pebbles piss me off.
It may have been $200 a gal. but either way Bat Shit Crazy. But it has Electrolytes, like Brawndo so it must be good.
Daniels

Click to expand...

Electrolytes, hah! Got friends in Amsterdam in the Galatin valley, west of Boseman.

phyzix said:

Hey UB, nice thread and I like the suggestions.

I have a question about scoring the root-ball during transplant. I have heard mixed things from exceptionally reliable sources about whether it is beneficial or detrimental.

Click to expand...

If you have severe spinout, scoring the root ball will stop it and produce a more fibrous root system. Every where you cut will induce branching behind the cut. IOW, it's topping but done underground. Do it.

However, when I transplant between 1 gallons to 3 gallons and the plant had just started to fill up the 1 gallon container, I see no benefits to scoring.

Click to expand...

Yep. It's just another corrective action to a problem.

Is there a difference between how root-bound a plant is and the potential benefits of scoring when you transplant in your experience?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

A rootbound plant will tend to stunt compared to one that is freely exploring the soil. Here's my Spin-out thread which will put your interests to rest. Same principle......
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html

barry bongwater said:

..... Guy who worked their had two answers: check your ph, sounds like a virus. F!@#$ing moron, must post here a lot.

Click to expand...

Yep, if you don't have the correct answer blame pH. Very common parroting drill around here. Another good one is it needs Mg.

Slowly but surely, I have read through your posts for weeks. I use a 20-20-20 I bought for $7 bucks. Works great. Analysis is solid; it's a product made for the horticultural community not the canna crowd.

Click to expand...

And a better product too than what the canna trade is producing.

I don't believe in magic bullets; every plant on this planet has an upper limit and trying to get there is not going to happen without actually understanding what a plant needs and watching and learning. I've learned to watch my plants.

Click to expand...

Yep. Folks need to find out a couple of things about their plants, first one being the "light saturation point" or, the point where less is more.

.....will live in a fantasy world that says mj is a unique plant and that AN and all the other shysters have a 'magic bullet' that will solve all their problems (near total ignorance).

Click to expand...

You nailed it, and no, I'm have never allowed the group to define who I am. Good luck, ol wise one.

Short Bus said:

Yupper, I try to put everything in the soil, then I can just water em and walk away smiling. I grow perpetual, so I work with my plants daily, and when I used to do the whole toxic soup feeding method prior to making my own dirt, I'd spend up to an hour a day just mixing the shit. I spent a while using Subcool's super soil trick, whichis good but a little strong, even used in layers as he recomends. Now I cut the strength down to 1/3, add cow shit, kelp, and recently, alfalfa. So far so good, and they tell you when they're hungry. Which is a lot easier to spot after reading this kind of thread.

Click to expand...

It takes a while before you get your program down, and with that comes confidence and knowledge.

Have you heard of Mandala Seeds? They have a great grow guide on their site for beginners. They do recomend some Canna products at the end, but that's after many paragaphs advising the reader to grab some good soil and not sweat the nutes unless needed. Really good, comprehensive stuff with no hidden agenda. Here's a link for anyone interested. I ordered a pack of Satori seeds from these folks a couple days ago, looks amazing.

http://www.mandalaseeds.com/Guides/Fertilizing-Smart-Guide

And I'll be trying that corn this season for sure.

Click to expand...

Yeah, heard of them. I went to RIU's link and could not believe the number of seedbanks there are now, must be 60 where 15 years ago there was maybe 4. Everyone's out to hit the lotto LOL.

Detaching the growth tip halts root growth temporarily, as the root can't get any longer. Instead it gets fatter,

Click to expand...

It actually branches as I said before. But, you got a good handle on what makes a plant tick. In the end, the only thing that matters is the production and maintenance of your foliage and root system.

phyzix said:

I know what root pruning is, especially in regard to air pruning...what I was wondering is in more regard to how beneficial it is to score a plant that isn't necessarily root-bound.

Click to expand...

You can't score unless it's rootbound and spinning out. See my Spin-out thread for an example.

UB

Something I read inspired me to reply. "scoring the root-ball" will terminate the growth of the distal apical meristems known as primary growth roots. This triggers a hormonal mechanism forcing hew growth on the secondary phloem roots. for more see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_root#Root_architecture/ hope this helps and does not intrude on the thread.

Yeah, teh google is great isn't it?

Short Bus said:

That alfalfa thread's an interesting read, suprised it hasn't gotten more attention. I'm gonna try adding it to some worm castings for a tea sometime soon. For anyone out there doing the tea bit, Weedblock makes an awesome reusable tea bag.

Click to expand...

LOL I think you could do an entire grow with nothing but alfalfa meal, kelp meal and EWC.

I have a fresh 50# bag in the back of the truck.

I do a bokashi thing with the alfalfa meal and use it for worm food, teas and adding to my mix in place of blood meal.

If you want a real rocket fuel, that's it and it's only ~$17 for a 50# bag.

Oh, go to the $ store and get queen sized trouser socks. Cheap tea bags. Good sized too! LOL

Wet

Wetdog said:

LOL I think you could do an entire grow with nothing but alfalfa meal, kelp meal and EWC.

I have a fresh 50# bag in the back of the truck.

I do a bokashi thing with the alfalfa meal and use it for worm food, teas and adding to my mix in place of blood meal.

If you want a real rocket fuel, that's it and it's only ~$17 for a 50# bag.

Oh, go to the $ store and get queen sized trouser socks. Cheap tea bags. Good sized too! LOL

Wet

Click to expand...

The co-op here gets 14.95 for that bag, and I was in there yesterday and he stated that there were bugs in the bag and if I didn't want it for feed, then it was $5 for the bag., which I gladly paid and put into immediate use.


cof