boneheadbob
Well-Known Member
Can you describe super bushy?
Uncle Ben's Topping Technique to Get 2 or 4 Main Colas
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Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
I bet that 99% of noobs fall for the bloom food line during bloom and then wonder why they end up with popcorn buds and no leaves come harvest. Bloom foods are fine once in a while, just don't use them exclusively during flowering.
Can't mess with mama nature, she always wins. It is what it is.
UB
AWnox
Active Member
Super bushy as in she's only 20 days old today and she's by her 8th node and each one is about 1 inche from each other or less (super short plant about 7 inches) and from each node there are branches coming out from the node intersection that some already reach the same length as the main stem. The biggest leaf measures at 7 inches from tip of the leaf to the stem and it already has it's full 7 leaf sets on 2 of the nodes. She's growing furiously you could say, so my question is that would you think it's worth topping considering her "bushiness" and her great growth so far?
smoke n strum
Active Member
Ub, I have a question regarding bloom foods. In reading J.R.Peters website, he has a recipe for success so to speak for tomatoes which uses the dynamic duo which is 20-20-20 all purpose used along with their 10-30-20 blossom booster. It specifically says to start with blossom booster (new young plant) to start building a strong root system then use the all purpose when the plant is ready to start rapid vegetative growth. I believe you are familiar with that recipe. you might be the one who referred me to it... not sure. Do you agree with that way of thinking in general, without getting into details about what's already in the soil etc., or should a person use a higher N Fert to start cannabis?
boneheadbob
Well-Known Member
There are all kinds of problems with synthetic, high-nitrogen fertilizers. The primary problem is that there’s too much nitrogen. It creates an unbalanced situation as far as nutrients in the soil and in plants.
High levels of nitrogen and low levels of trace minerals force fast growth that results in very weak watery cell growth in plants. People see the plants are growing and flowering so they think everything is fine. But the imbalance and the watery cells bring on insects and diseases. Nature’s job is to take out sick plants and to encourage the survival of the fittest.
And, the form of nitrogen is wrong. It works too fast. Plus, it’s soluble. If it rains after you put it out, it washes away and leaches through the soil into the water stream.
The second problem is the phosphorous source. The phosphorous in synthetic fertilizer is usually triple super phosphate 0-46-0 made by treating rock phosphate with phosphoric acid. Years ago the phosphorous source was 0-20-0 or super phosphate. It was pretty darn good even though it was created by a synthetic process. Rock phosphate was made by treatment with with sulfuric acid. It was a more balanced phosphate and did not tie up trace minerals.
Well, somebody came up with the notion to use phosphoric acid to create more phosphorous for less money. So now all the synthetic fertilizer manufacturers use triple super phosphate. Big problem – the new material is so raw and so bare that when it’s put on the soil, it grabs and locks onto magnesium, manganese and all sorts of other trace minerals. It ties up these nutrients making them unavailable to plants.
The third problem is potassium. The source of potassium in most synthetic fertilizers is muriate of potash or potassium chloride. Potassium chloride is bad on specific types of crops – especially fruit crops. It’s also harsh on the soil. What we like as a potassium source is potassium sulfate. It’s made from the salt of The Great Salt Lake.
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/Synthetic-vs-Organic-Fertilizers-Can-Plants-Tell-the-Difference_vq131.htm
High levels of nitrogen and low levels of trace minerals force fast growth that results in very weak watery cell growth in plants. People see the plants are growing and flowering so they think everything is fine. But the imbalance and the watery cells bring on insects and diseases. Nature’s job is to take out sick plants and to encourage the survival of the fittest.
And, the form of nitrogen is wrong. It works too fast. Plus, it’s soluble. If it rains after you put it out, it washes away and leaches through the soil into the water stream.
The second problem is the phosphorous source. The phosphorous in synthetic fertilizer is usually triple super phosphate 0-46-0 made by treating rock phosphate with phosphoric acid. Years ago the phosphorous source was 0-20-0 or super phosphate. It was pretty darn good even though it was created by a synthetic process. Rock phosphate was made by treatment with with sulfuric acid. It was a more balanced phosphate and did not tie up trace minerals.
Well, somebody came up with the notion to use phosphoric acid to create more phosphorous for less money. So now all the synthetic fertilizer manufacturers use triple super phosphate. Big problem – the new material is so raw and so bare that when it’s put on the soil, it grabs and locks onto magnesium, manganese and all sorts of other trace minerals. It ties up these nutrients making them unavailable to plants.
The third problem is potassium. The source of potassium in most synthetic fertilizers is muriate of potash or potassium chloride. Potassium chloride is bad on specific types of crops – especially fruit crops. It’s also harsh on the soil. What we like as a potassium source is potassium sulfate. It’s made from the salt of The Great Salt Lake.
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/Synthetic-vs-Organic-Fertilizers-Can-Plants-Tell-the-Difference_vq131.htm
boneheadbob
Well-Known Member
One big reason to top your plants is too make them bushy and to keep them smaller.
Sounds like you dont need to top. Plus some strains are better left untopped
Sounds like you dont need to top. Plus some strains are better left untopped
AWnox
Active Member
Thanks for the reply boneheadbob. Looks like this Kalashnikova might be one of those cases. For a first time I would consider "proper" even to just let it due it's thing and she what shes got on her own. Maybe at a later grow i'll experiment some more.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Jack's advice aside, the question should be, "what amount of P is required by plants to support a strong root system?" I think that perhaps Jack is selling his products. Look, I just got in the mail today a soil analysis from Texas A&M and there's a clear warning including a sheet on the negative effects of too much P. Since my soil shows too much P, the recommendation is to not add any P, in any kind of form manure or otherwise for at least 5 years. Talking veggie garden. Same applies with cannabis and potting soils. Watch the high P foods. They will induce Fe and Zn deficiencies which piled on top of each often mask what is really going on regarding the symptoms of chlorosis and/or bleaching of new leaves..
UB
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
smoke n strum
Active Member
Thanks UB... there's bad advice everywhere (except from you of course). It sounded reasonable though. I learned quite a bit in my first grow... I was very hesitant at first to fertilize for fear of overdoing it. I think that actually served me well because it kept me from over doing it and ruining the grow. Toward the end, I was starting to have nutrient problems because the plants were too big to move around in the tight space I grew them in, so for the last 6 to seven weeks I could not leech the soil and I had a lot of salt build up in the soil. If I would have had to grow them another month, I think I would have had serious nutrient problems.. I also did not put any lime in my soil mix, that was a mistake. You are right too about us noobs.. even though I knew what you say about bloom foods I still over did it, giving bloom booster exclusively for the last month or so. Luckily they finished before I caused too much damage and everything turned out good. I bought the book by Jose Cervantez.. The Bible... Pretty good for a lot of stuff, but some pretty lame instructions in there as well... like start your seeds in Jiffy pots... I hate Jiffy pots.. do people actually get plants to grow in those things?l
sns
sns
Reading all your info was as helpful as seemorebuds or jorgecervantes, I appreciate it all. The 4 coala method I used on my first plant, and I'll probably use it on every plant forever. It creates a perfect double U of the 4 main branches every time. it really is amazing.
thanks so much.
thanks so much.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
I see such mistakes a lot with new growers. They will starve their plants AND give them the wrong NPK values not bothering to seek out and understand plant nutrition but you can sure count on them to spew label names with the latest and greatest snake oil releases, again not caring or knowing what's really in the bottle.
You're right, Jiffy pots suck. The best vigor you're gonna get for a quick and fast seedling start is by following my germ procedure, the most important issue being choosing an opaque pot at least 6" tall to germ in. The second trick to plant vigor, health, and production is using a root tip pruning container, one that is designed and made to actually direct the roots outside. I'm playing with Root Maker products as we speak.I think that actually served me well because it kept me from over doing it and ruining the grow. Toward the end, I was starting to have nutrient problems because the plants were too big to move around in the tight space I grew them in, so for the last 6 to seven weeks I could not leech the soil and I had a lot of salt build up in the soil. If I would have had to grow them another month, I think I would have had serious nutrient problems.. I also did not put any lime in my soil mix, that was a mistake. You are right too about us noobs.. even though I knew what you say about bloom foods I still over did it, giving bloom booster exclusively for the last month or so. Luckily they finished before I caused too much damage and everything turned out good. I bought the book by Jose Cervantez.. The Bible... Pretty good for a lot of stuff, but some pretty lame instructions in there as well... like start your seeds in Jiffy pots... I hate Jiffy pots.. do people actually get plants to grow in those things?l
sns
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
AWnox
Active Member
With all due respect to UB and the mod of this thread but I feel some animosity towards noobs here that I don't see in other areas of the RIU forum. Remember guys you were ALL noobs at one point and without them the future of growers is dim. I do appreciate the thread made to help them but there is no need to get feisty over simple questions. We were not all born with green thumbs and no question is a stupid one just misinformed. I understand that this is "Advanced MJ Cultivation" area but you can simply redirect them to the proper area of the forum instead of not paying them attention or being rude just because their noobs or made a "stupid" question.
UncleBen sorry to hijack this thread I don't mean to troll or spam or anything of the sorts, just felt like it had to be said.
Have a good day everyone.
UncleBen sorry to hijack this thread I don't mean to troll or spam or anything of the sorts, just felt like it had to be said.
Have a good day everyone.
boneheadbob
Well-Known Member
Sorry bout that. I was looking in other places for info instead of cannabis forums filled with conflicting info.
I better stick to university and reputable horticulture info instead of "the dirt doctor"
boneheadbob
Well-Known Member
The problem is newbies do not take any time to find the answer to the simple question that has already been asked twenty times in the thread.
By telling them to read the thread or go to the faq page enriches their lives, even if they dont realize it. Many of them are just lazy. If they took the time to read for an hour time they can answer their own question and learn a whole bunch at the same time.
Its like teaching a man to fish instead of giving him a fish
boneheadbob
Well-Known Member
lol of course they will including telling you, big deal about your bushes and they might not even be about your plants like they do in the AZ forum. And dont start with whats wrong with Arizonans. You have more then your share of knuckleheads in Cal.
johnnyflavours
Member
yours is a winning concept. what is your exact soil recipe ??
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