Uncle Ben's Topping Technique to Get 2 or 4 Main Colas

UB,

Glad to hear the wife will mend.

Thanks for the link to the discounted copy of that book. I'd been searching for it under his name and could only find the "Deluxe Grow Guide" and not the "Insider's Guide". I take it there's a difference in content between them and that of the two the "Insiders guide" is the better???

As to the soil mix you've mentioned.... Is it what you initially plant your seeds in? Or do you start them out in something different for the first week or so?

My technique has been has been to germinate the seeds between wet paper towels and then transplant them directly into the potting mix they'll spend the rest of their life in. At first I put them into 4x4x5 deep pots and put them under my 400W light (about 2 to 3 foot above them) with the light on continuously. From what I've been reading here lately I begining to suspect that this may be a little to much light to quickly. What's happened is that they've grown so tall and spindly so quickly that they've almost all fallen over and required being tied to a stake during the first week or so of growth. My thinking now is that besides to much light they may have gotten to many nuterients from the potting mix to quickly also. My first true node ends up being 6 to 8 inches above the top of the soil where yours seem to be right down there with in 2 inches. And while my main stem does eventually bulk up further up the plant it always remains skinnier where it comes out of the soil.

When you get the time could you elaborate on your lighting and cycle time at the beginning of a grow?

Thanks.

Hi,

I'm not UB but I've had really good seedling starts using T5 HO Fluoros up real close to the seedlings - 2 to 3 inches. That will give you very close internodal spacing during early veg - maybe all of veg.

hemphopper said:

Hi,

I'm not UB but I've had really good seedling starts using T5 HO Fluoros up real close to the seedlings - 2 to 3 inches. That will give you very close internodal spacing during early veg - maybe all of veg.

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hh,

Thanks for the info. I've got a 4 bulb 8 foot fluoro fixture (basically a standard shop light fixture) I've drug out and set up for a little experiment in a spare room. Should have some results in a week or two.

How long do you keep yours under the fluros before moving them to more intense lighting? Also what's your initial light cycle (24/0, 20/4, 18/6, etc.)?

Thanks.

Hi Jack,

(don't say that in an airport) I did 18/6 for veg. Barney's farm Blue Cheese, an Indica strain. Very close branching but they did stretch in flower. I don't have an HPS so I stayed with T5's and supplemented with 8 42 cfl's for flowering. Good yield but nothing compared to what experienced folks like Uncle Ben are doing.

Jack in the Bud said:

UB,

Glad to hear the wife will mend.

Thanks for the link to the discounted copy of that book. I'd been searching for it under his name and could only find the "Deluxe Grow Guide" and not the "Insider's Guide". I take it there's a difference in content between them and that of the two the "Insiders guide" is the better???

As to the soil mix you've mentioned.... Is it what you initially plant your seeds in? Or do you start them out in something different for the first week or so?

Click to expand...

Same mix, I just screen thru a colander.

My technique has been has been to germinate the seeds between wet paper towels

Click to expand...

Bad practice. Sow directly in soil, like nature planned it.

What's happened is that they've grown so tall and spindly so quickly that they've almost all fallen over and required being tied to a stake during the first week or so of growth.

Click to expand...

Shouldn't be falling over, especially under good light. They will tend to be leggy for a while though. The natural progression is to bulk up.

My thinking now is that besides to much light they may have gotten to many nuterients from the potting mix to quickly also. My first true node ends up being 6 to 8 inches above the top of the soil where yours seem to be right down there with in 2 inches. And while my main stem does eventually bulk up further up the plant it always remains skinnier where it comes out of the soil.

When you get the time could you elaborate on your lighting and cycle time at the beginning of a grow?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

20/4 veg. 12/12 flower.

Sure Shot said:

My condolences.

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Thanks. This too shall pass.

UB

Uncle Ben said:

Same mix, I just screen thru a colander.

Bad practice. Sow directly in soil, like nature planned it.

Shouldn't be falling over, especially under good light. They will tend to be leggy for a while though. The natural progression is to bulk up.

20/4 veg. 12/12 flower.

Thanks. This too shall pass.

UB

Click to expand...

UB,

Hope all is well with you and yours this morning. Judging by how tight my hat is fitting I must have had a damm good time last night. All though I'm sitting here wishing we hadn't of pulled the cork on that last bottle of Amador County Red. Oh man, the kitchen looks like a herd of wild pigs went thru it.

Once again thanks for the info. I've been reading so much in these forums this past week that some of it is starting to run together. But I seem to think I recall a post by you that talked about using a fluorescent shop light fixture for the first week or so of a seedlings life. Is this so or have I just gotten myself confused with too much input?

I have done the seed directly into the soil method several times before but was getting a week to 10 days spread time from first and last to germinate. Switched to the paper towel method and it helped me get them all starting out closer together.

I will be stopping the 24/0 light cycle for the veg period on this next run. I'll be going with your recommedation of 20/4 and then 12/12. My last veg time (under 24/0) was 29 days. I've gone a week or two longer on some runs in the past but ended up with plants that got a little to tall for my space. All though I'm thinking that by going with your pruning to 4 main cola technique it will help keep the finishing height down some what and allow me to give them a little more veg time if you think that would be beneficial toward the final quality and quantity of the harvest. [Just to note, the last time I cut to 12/12 and began forcing it only took 8 days before all the plants had indicated.]

Due to my space restrictions I kept everything in the 4x4x5 pots until I knew they were females before repotting up in container size. It was kind of a pain in the ass though because during the last week or so before they indicated I was having to water once or twice a day and was stuck staying pretty close to the fort. While I had a fair root system at that point I wouldn't say that they were root bound like some things I've seen pictures of. I'm hoping that by going with the 20/4 light cycle and your potting mix I'll be getting a lot better root (and over all plant) structure.

Should have my copy of Frank's book some time this coming week.

And now, I gotta go muck this kitchen out and after that maybe a supply run to casa dePOT.

Life is short, Garden naked.

Jack

UB,

Can you perform this method on Autodwarfs? I know they aren't the best genetics but my space or lack there of requires them.

Thanks

hey im new to all this i no it sounds daft but i dont know what nodes are so would you be able to explain how to do it in simpler words for me . cheers

firsttimegrowa said:

hey im new to all this i no it sounds daft but i dont know what nodes are so would you be able to explain how to do it in simpler words for me . cheers

Click to expand...

How about you "google" the word nodes first and see if that helps.

Hey Uncle Ben,

I was curious if you could provide any information on "lollipopping" the plants? If so, I was wondering when you think it might be best to do, and how many lower branches you would recommend cutting back? Do you even recommend this method?

Great Thread

Jack, might I suggest ditching the foil and painting the walls flat white.. Foil is not the same as mylar, it reflects less than flat white paint, and its really tough to get a smooth reflection cast..
Beyond that I don't want to start a nute-war, but MG was never good for me in pots.. Shultz's, Plant-Prod and other cheapies were easier to manage.. MG tended to start things great, but went downhill, and the longer the regimen, the worse the run-off numbers got.. A few others have claimed similar observations.. My assumption is that my MG products had pretty much no nitrate nitrogen, but who knows I might just be a libelous moron..

born2killspam said:

Jack, might I suggest ditching the foil and painting the walls flat white.. Foil is not the same as mylar, it reflects less than flat white paint, and its really tough to get a smooth reflection cast..
Beyond that I don't want to start a nute-war, but MG was never good for me in pots.. Shultz's, Plant-Prod and other cheapies were easier to manage.. MG tended to start things great, but went downhill, and the longer the regimen, the worse the run-off numbers got.. A few others have claimed similar observations.. My assumption is that my MG products had pretty much no nitrate nitrogen, but who knows I might just be a libelous moron..

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b2ks,

The irony here is that under the foil the walls are already painted flat white. This must be one of those counter-intuitive things because it sure seems brighter in there now than it did before I put the foil up. Along with everything else I've been reading and seeing in these forums your suggestion in this area does seem to have merit though. I'll be considering it strongly.

As to the MG, I believe I'm coming to the same conclusion you've already reached regarding it. On the next grow I'll be using the planting mix UB described several posts back and doing a 20/4 veg (as opposed to a 24/0).

Thanks for the in put.

Jack

If it wasn't so counter intuitive then there would be no backup merit on the forum since there is little reason to point out the obvious..
Beyond that I bet you're using it shiney side out right?? Well surprisingly enough the diffused side reflects better for plants.. Flat white diffuses light very well, and plants use light best when its diffused because it casts more evenly across the chlorophylls..
Neither UB or myself are fans of concentrated light.. Its inefficient and lowers quality..

thats quality shit bro,i need to learn how to do that is it garunteed to work if u cut it

Yea, here is the secret about pot.. The plant is resilient as shit, and you can cut it anywhere above true foliage at any time without 'hurting' it (in flowering however you do not want to alter any growth patterns).. The purpose of posting the technique is to share details on a point, and a time to top that will yield predictable growth patterns with maximum value to the majority of grow spaces..

b2ks,

Since it seems you've already been where I'm currently at regarding this whole cultivation thing I was wondering if I could get you to expound a little on your harvesting technique. I'm approximately 3 weeks out from one and from all my reading in these forums it seems there might be some things I maybe should be doing differently. To begin with what do you think of this leaving the plant in darkness for any where between 24 and 72 hours before harvesting?

What I've been doing is keeping a eye on the trichromes and when I start to notice a few amber ones I harvest. Also the formation of any of those banannas will cause me to harvest with in a couple of days of spotting them. I've left them on there before for a week or two longer and gotten some of those small immature seeds in the bud. I had a theory that by pollinating one small bud towards the bottom of each plant (there by letting the plant repoduce to a small extent) it would keep it from forming those bannanas late in flowering. That didn't seem to work out as planned because I've still gotten them even when a lower bud on the plant had good mature seeds formed on it. Also I've always harvested after the lights have been on for several hours. But it wouldn't be any major problem for me to harvest right after an extended dark period if you think there's any value in doing that.

Also for the last week to 10 days I give them nothing but straight water and try to give them a least one good flushing during that time. In the past I've staggered out the harvest over a week or two but have gotten to the point where every thing is pretty much close together as far as maturity goes. There's always one or two plants that it wouldn't hurt to give a little more time to and maybe one or two that are some what past their prime. I just try to gauge the over all crop maturity/quality and harvest everything at once. For one thing I use the same space for controlling the enviroment while hanging and drying. Another thing I've done the last two crops (and don't ask me where I got the idea because it's most likely one of my own personal brain farts) is to immedietly put the buds into big glass jars for 24 hours after trimming them to let them sweat. Then they colas are hung (and the smaller buds laid out in cardboard pop/beer flats to slowly dry until they just start to get some crunchyness to them and then it's back into the jars and monitored closely for the next couple weeks, letting them breath a little each day as needed so no mold developes. I learned the hard way (by having a jar of buds get moldy) that you have to keep a close eye on things and check them at least once a day at this stage of the cure. I didn't let that go to waste though. I dried it out, ground it up and and sauted it in vegatable oil and then used that oil to make brownies with. Space brownies are getting to be my favorite method of ingesting THC. The only major downside that I've experienced is that they do tend to make you prattle on about things. In fact I've got one kicking in pretty good right now.

Jack

born2killspam said:

If it wasn't so counter intuitive then there would be no backup merit on the forum since there is little reason to point out the obvious..
Beyond that I bet you're using it shiney side out right?? Well surprisingly enough the diffused side reflects better for plants.. Flat white diffuses light very well, and plants use light best when its diffused because it casts more evenly across the chlorophylls..
Neither UB or myself are fans of concentrated light.. Its inefficient and lowers quality..

Click to expand...

Au contraire mon bon ami, I did get the part about the diffused side of the foil right.

The foil is not coming down today but most likely before the start of the next grow it is and the walls are getting a fresh coat of flat white. That is unless there's something else you and UB might consider even better.

Jack

Jack in the Bud said:

UB,

Hope all is well with you and yours this morning. Judging by how tight my hat is fitting I must have had a damm good time last night. All though I'm sitting here wishing we hadn't of pulled the cork on that last bottle of Amador County Red. Oh man, the kitchen looks like a herd of wild pigs went thru it.

Click to expand...

Sounds like a good time to me! Last time I did that was bringing up a shitload of tequila to Lousiana - cajun coon asses had to go thru the line at least 3 times to be "a real man".

Once again thanks for the info. I've been reading so much in these forums this past week that some of it is starting to run together. But I seem to think I recall a post by you that talked about using a fluorescent shop light fixture for the first week or so of a seedlings life. Is this so or have I just gotten myself confused with too much input?

Click to expand...

Using 4' shop fluors is a real easy and cheap way to start plants. Use chains to adjust the height based on the shortest ones at one end going to the taller ones at the other. Keep regular fluors almost touching the leaves. When the footprint of the leafsets grow quite a bit outside the hood, it's time to go under HID.

I will be stopping the 24/0 light cycle for the veg period on this next run. I'll be going with your recommedation of 20/4 and then 12/12. My last veg time (under 24/0) was 29 days. I've gone a week or two longer on some runs in the past but ended up with plants that got a little to tall for my space. All though I'm thinking that by going with your pruning to 4 main cola technique it will help keep the finishing height down some what and allow me to give them a little more veg time if you think that would be beneficial toward the final quality and quantity of the harvest. [Just to note, the last time I cut to 12/12 and began forcing it only took 8 days before all the plants had indicated.]

Click to expand...

My philosophy is "if you ain't experimenting, then there's something wrong." You'll learn real quick. Try it. Topping reduces plant height. Whether that is an issue for you depends on your garden's profile, indica vs. sativa, etc.

I'm hoping that by going with the 20/4 light cycle and your potting mix I'll be getting a lot better root (and over all plant) structure.

Click to expand...

Growing is all about tweaks. Everything you do plays into the final equation. You have to develop your own program. No one can do that for you.

Have fun with Mel's book. I was mesmerized many years ago. I think you will be too.

snodegd said:

UB,

Can you perform this method on Autodwarfs? I know they aren't the best genetics but my space or lack there of requires them.

Thanks

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Not sure what a autodwarf is. Like I said, I play games with this hormonal response. It will work well on any plant having opposing leafsets (nodes). It works fine on autoflowering plants, those with "rudy" in them if they are still in the veg stage.

Fred Flintstoner said:

Hey Uncle Ben,

I was curious if you could provide any information on "lollipopping" the plants? If so, I was wondering when you think it might be best to do, and how many lower branches you would recommend cutting back? Do you even recommend this method?

Great Thread

Click to expand...

I gave up lollipops many years ago.

Good luck fellers ~

i need to be tryin that,this is my 1st time growin ive got a 1.2 by 1.0 metre square tent wich is also 2 metres high my crop is finished in the next few weeks and im gonna get a bigger tent,so what i was gonna do with my small tent is just put 1 or 2 big ass plants,could i fit 2 in ther and top them to get 4 top heads.....would it be well worth it