Uncle Ben's Topping Technique to Get 2 or 4 Main Colas

Status
Not open for further replies.

collieBudz

Well-Known Member
I've figured out the stunting thing, its not really stunted anymore, it was from the transplant to the 5gals, plus a little bit of over feeding, and and little bit of low ph, all leading to a lockout for a bit, but it got bad on the other one's this one just stopped growing, the other 2 got spotted and grayish.. but they have bounced back, but it's all good now i think its pretty average at least no? the difference in the last 9 days? i know they were real small up until then, but since seemed good to me... and i didnt have them under a 1000w the whol etime, around day 20 i went from a 32w shoplight fluro to the 1000w and thats when i transplanted etc so the first week under the big light im sure it was useless

but, as of now its fine i can top it? like i said i get a node a day past 2-3 days
 

Roland

Active Member
You have some serious leaf yellowing problems. Could be a root health issue, lack of N, don't know. Sup?



I know ... was wondering ,,, don't think it's N ,,,, all same nutrients , water , pot size .. near end of life cycle ... the one plant is getting lighter and lighter in color ...... some had a little nute burn at tips so I backed off the fish emulsion a couple weeks ago ... just gave em some a couple days ago ... dried buds smoke good now after short drying and curing


I'm guessing .. another week to go b 4 mature ..
 

fanya

Well-Known Member
Hi Ben,

Thanks for this thread first of all. Great info, I've read most of it now.

From what I remember you said the best time to top is right at lights on when you are going to water so here is my question

Do I want to water with nutes or without nutes? I was thinking with nutes to help it recover faster but I'm just not sure.

My plants will be 14 days old tomorrow and should have 4 or 5 nodes when I top, I have given them 1 dose of 1/2 strength nutes 5 days ago (using Fox Farms trio) so far.

Thanks and happy growing!
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
I've figured out the stunting thing, its not really stunted anymore, it was from the transplant to the 5gals,
5 gallons? Expect it to never recover. Don't give your plants things they don't need. That will only work against you. Top if you wish.

Hi Ben,

Thanks for this thread first of all. Great info, I've read most of it now.

From what I remember you said the best time to top is right at lights on when you are going to water so here is my question
I never said that. Time of day does not matter.

Do I want to water with nutes or without nutes? I was thinking with nutes to help it recover faster but I'm just not sure.
Nothing changes. If your plant needs food, then provide it. Topping does not involve any changes in keeping a plant healthy and actively growing.

My plants will be 14 days old tomorrow and should have 4 or 5 nodes when I top, I have given them 1 dose of 1/2 strength nutes 5 days ago (using Fox Farms trio) so far.

Thanks and happy growing!
OK

Good luck,
UB
 

collieBudz

Well-Known Member
5 gallons? Expect it to never recover. Don't give your plants things they don't need. That will only work against you. Top if you wish.

UB

I know i think i will go with 3gal next time, but, what do you mean they will never recover? what should i expect in terms of growth per day or week that would be considered 'normal'? cause to me it looks like it's doing good now, and what do you mean about giving them things they dont need? it didnt need 5gal but definitely needed to transplant from my little 8oz dixie cups.. so im not sure what you mean,...
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
I know i think i will go with 3gal next time, but, what do you mean they will never recover? what should i expect in terms of growth per day or week that would be considered 'normal'? cause to me it looks like it's doing good now, and what do you mean about giving them things they dont need? it didnt need 5gal but definitely needed to transplant from my little 8oz dixie cups.. so im not sure what you mean,...
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html
 

FreeLeaf

Active Member
Thanks for taking the time to help everyone out UB. Going on what Collie was asking. I have 10 rooted clones arriving next week. 80i/20s I only have a 20sq ft area 8 feet high. I Can't take the plants over 5' tall. Can't decide wether to plant them in 5 gal from the start, plant them in 3 gal from the start and then transplant them into 5 gal halfway through or just use 3 gal the entire grow cycle. I'm shootin for 3 zips a plant in 120 days with 1000w MH then HPS. It sounded like you were saying transplanting should really be avoided. Suggestions?
 

collieBudz

Well-Known Member
Thanks for taking the time to help everyone out UB. Going on what Collie was asking. I have 10 rooted clones arriving next week. 80i/20s I only have a 20sq ft area 8 feet high. I Can't take the plants over 5' tall. Can't decide wether to plant them in 5 gal from the start, plant them in 3 gal from the start and then transplant them into 5 gal halfway through or just use 3 gal the entire grow cycle. I'm shootin for 3 zips a plant in 120 days with 1000w MH then HPS. It sounded like you were saying transplanting should really be avoided. Suggestions?

well, take it from me, cause this is what i'll be doing exactly next time


i would start in cups, 16-32oz, styrofoam or plastic as long as theyre not clear, if it doesnt have drainage holes make some, (if you want an easy non-soil way you can look up hempy collective and will find a lot of info on how to do it)

DO NOT transplant them too soon like i did, and if you do , at least not to a 5gal like i did.. then can easily grow up until 12in or so if not more in a 16-32oz party cup, so, once they get to be about that size id say give it a go at transplanting to a bigger pot, id only go 1-3 gal from my little bit of experience, 5gal would support like 9-10foot trees outdoors so its not necessary indoors... and dont feed them too often, at first youre gonna assume they need a lot of water and a lot of food, but its not really the case, and make sure you have some cal-mag to add as for some reason it seems to be the most common deficiency besides the big 3, aside from that, just let em do their thing it takes less long to recover from lets say, underwaterring, lakc of some nutes etc than it does from over nuting and etc etc, thats about what ive learned so far besides all the 'theory' i had before hand.. read up on whatever method you wanna employ and thats about it
 

FreeLeaf

Active Member
Thanks for the imput Collie. It has been 10 years since I did a crop outdoors. This will be my first indoor HID. The one thing that I do remember from reading a lot on OG (RIP OG) was to start the nutes after a couple of weeks in the soil and then use 1/4 of the prescribed nutes. After 2- 3 feedings bump it up to 1/3 then 1/2 and finally 2/3rd's of nutes. My clones will be comming in small cups. Maybe I should put them in 1/2 gal containers and then in a few weeks transplant them into 3 gal containers. :)
 

FreeLeaf

Active Member
Also you need to adjust for the nutes contained in the new soil. I think this is where some people go wrong. They transplant into new soil chalked full of fresh nutes then they start feeding them a couple of days latter.
 

cappeeler09

Active Member
alls i have to say is that is sick shit,can i do this with any strain because ive heard that some dont react to it,what strains wer these
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Thanks for taking the time to help everyone out UB. Going on what Collie was asking. I have 10 rooted clones arriving next week. 80i/20s I only have a 20sq ft area 8 feet high. I Can't take the plants over 5' tall. Can't decide wether to plant them in 5 gal from the start, plant them in 3 gal from the start and then transplant them into 5 gal halfway through or just use 3 gal the entire grow cycle. I'm shootin for 3 zips a plant in 120 days with 1000w MH then HPS. It sounded like you were saying transplanting should really be avoided. Suggestions?
That is a personal decision based on many factors - heat, RH, plant size, etc. For me, germinating directly into a 16 oz styrocup, letting it bulk up with about 7 nodes and going to a 3 gallon pot to finish works. Or, germinate in a 1 gallon and finish in a 3 or 5 gallon. Doesn't really matter - you want to get to the point in whatever container you choose of getting a bit rootbound, with some root spin-out. That call is an art and comes with experience. You'll either be transplanting too soon or too late, I prefer too late because I can always score the rootball vertically to induce secondary root branching when I upcan. Transplanting before it's time into a large pot only adds insult to injury. Overwatering will be an issue, the soil structure will deterioate quicker due to a lack of quick wicking of moisture out of the medium by a robust root system, etc.

After 2- 3 feedings bump it up to 1/3 then 1/2 and finally 2/3rd's of nutes. My clones will be comming in small cups. Maybe I should put them in 1/2 gal containers and then in a few weeks transplant them into 3 gal containers. :)
Sorry, but that's all baloney regarding such a black and white feeding drill. Might as well be following some frickin' AN retard chart designed for..... OK, I'll stop. :D

No one has your plants, no one has your garden's profile, so no one can make that call. You base your plant's REQUIREMENTS on plant size, temps, rate of growth, original nutrient charge in the potting soil you chose, etc. I've seen plants here that could use a Tblsp./gallon of a 10-10-10 and just love it, others where it would burn the crap out of 'em. It's all relative to many factors. I have fed small seedlings with excellent results but that's because I knew it would do no harm, just increase their already robust growth. Go back to that link I gave on the Spin-out and check out the text from week one to week 3, note the plant measurements. That is a typical garden for me such that within 3 weeks I've got plant footprints 21" across, done with no chemical additions, just organics added to my custom blend.

Good luck,
UB
 

inquisitive

Well-Known Member
well, take it from me, cause this is what i'll be doing exactly next time


i would start in cups, 16-32oz, styrofoam or plastic as long as theyre not clear, if it doesnt have drainage holes make some, (if you want an easy non-soil way you can look up hempy collective and will find a lot of info on how to do it)

DO NOT transplant them too soon like i did, and if you do , at least not to a 5gal like i did.. then can easily grow up until 12in or so if not more in a 16-32oz party cup, so, once they get to be about that size id say give it a go at transplanting to a bigger pot, id only go 1-3 gal from my little bit of experience, 5gal would support like 9-10foot trees outdoors so its not necessary indoors...
Just did this a few days ago too, you speak with authority on that. Excellent advice.

+ reps for it!
 

collieBudz

Well-Known Member
Hey UB,

wanna have a look at my work and tell me just how bad i screwed it up? loll

this plantwas at like 7 nodes, although you only see 1 node in the pic, its because a few days ago i tried to clone from the branches under it.. and wasnt sure now if it counts as the 2nd node or the 1st lol so i just topped it there, and i used the cutting to make like 7 clones...which im slightly hopeful about, my frist try at it surely wasn't a good one lol.. anywya, i just wanna know if this looks right to you? or did i just kill my baby lol.. umm, other than that, when cloning, i did everything i know like cuttin 45degree, removing all but top leaves, but, am i supposed to leave a fan leaf on each clone??? i hope not cause i been cutting them off just leaving the 2 newest one's on the top of the clone, im taking them at about 4inches long, and 3 nodes. that sound good? ill take some pics if they start to droop or anything, but heres the topped NL, look good?

a little before and after, the before is from 4 days ago.. or maybe 6 days ago lol cant count it looks like
 

Attachments

collieBudz

Well-Known Member
Hey UB,

wanna have a look at my work and tell me just how bad i screwed it up? loll

this plantwas at like 7 nodes, although you only see 1 node in the pic, its because a few days ago i tried to clone from the branches under it.. and wasnt sure now if it counts as the 2nd node or the 1st lol so i just topped it there, and i used the cutting to make like 7 clones...which im slightly hopeful about, my frist try at it surely wasn't a good one lol.. anywya, i just wanna know if this looks right to you? or did i just kill my baby lol.. umm, other than that, when cloning, i did everything i know like cuttin 45degree, removing all but top leaves, but, am i supposed to leave a fan leaf on each clone??? i hope not cause i been cutting them off just leaving the 2 newest one's on the top of the clone, im taking them at about 4inches long, and 3 nodes. that sound good? ill take some pics if they start to droop or anything, but heres the topped NL, look good?

a little before and after, the before is from 4 days ago.. or maybe 6 days ago lol cant count it looks like

she's bleeding!! lol maybe i did kill her after all.. but seriously its spittin water outta where i topped
 

Roland

Active Member
she's bleeding!! lol maybe i did kill her after all.. but seriously its spittin water outta where i topped

The "bleeding" will slow down and stop ..... that'll give you two main Cola's ... I leave just a little more on the main stem when I do it ... (top my plant's ).. and cut on an approximate 45 deg angle ... but I'll defer to U B just wanted to let u know .. your plant will be ok


Plant below was topped after third node ... for six Cola's ...... next time ... I will top at same spot .. and remove bottom two stems leaving four Cola's
you can see (between the leaves ) where it was topped
 

Attachments

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Hey UB,

wanna have a look at my work and tell me just how bad i screwed it up? loll

this plantwas at like 7 nodes, although you only see 1 node in the pic, its because a few days ago i tried to clone from the branches under it.. and wasnt sure now if it counts as the 2nd node or the 1st lol so i just topped it there, and i used the cutting to make like 7 clones...which im slightly hopeful about, my frist try at it surely wasn't a good one lol.. anywya, i just wanna know if this looks right to you? or did i just kill my baby lol.. umm, other than that, when cloning, i did everything i know like cuttin 45degree, removing all but top leaves, but, am i supposed to leave a fan leaf on each clone??? i hope not cause i been cutting them off just leaving the 2 newest one's on the top of the clone, im taking them at about 4inches long, and 3 nodes. that sound good?
The fan leaves will be the source for carbos that will generate new tissue, roots. You only cut off leafsets to allow a few nodes to reside "underground" which will be your rooting zones. The plant can not make sufficient food for root output without sufficient leaf surface.

Just curious, what's with the 45* cutting drill?

Point of topping looks good, but, that is one stunted plant. Have you inspected the root system? Is it getting sufficient N or are you doing the typical NPK drill of too much K? What is the NPK ratio of your food?

Also, looks like the stem has been invaded by pythium (damp-off). Why is it off colored (brown)? What's up with the small cup in a big pot?
 

collieBudz

Well-Known Member
The fan leaves will be the source for carbos that will generate new tissue, roots. You only cut off leafsets to allow a few nodes to reside "underground" which will be your rooting zones. The plant can not make sufficient food for root output without sufficient leaf surface.

Just curious, what's with the 45* cutting drill?

Point of topping looks good, but, that is one stunted plant. Have you inspected the root system? Is it getting sufficient N or are you doing the typical NPK drill of too much K? What is the NPK ratio of your food?

Also, looks like the stem has been invaded by pythium (damp-off). Why is it off colored (brown)? What's up with the small cup in a big pot?
here i'll give u a rundown a-z maybe you'll get it more...


oh, i forgot, this is the link i choose to use for cloning guide, seemed simple enough, if youhave anything to add, or discredit, let me know!

http://www.gardenscure.com/420/propagation/75812-cloning-guide-dummies.html


this is 1st run at growing, they were doing fine until i did all of the following at once :

i bogged (not transplant, i cut the bottom off the smaller cup, so as to limit the shock the plant gets.. apparently called 'bogging down') i bogged them, from 8oz cups to 5gal buckets lol (not knowing really what i was doing..)

and at the same time, i thought since the roots surely werent in the reservoir at the bottom of my 5gal yet, that they wouldnt get enough water unless i gave em plenty... so i was feeding once a day and watering once a day... at too low of a ph on top of that, so i burned them by other giving too much nutes, or i sent them into nute lockout because of the quantity and ph i was feeding... this was at day 20 from when the seedlings broke ground (prior to this, they were under a 32w 48in fluro daylight shoplight. where the growth was most likely pretty pitiful compared to what it shoulda been, so im sure that set me back. anyway, so same day istarted over feeding and i bogged to way too big of container, i also put them under a 1000w MH and room temps soared to 88-92 for afew days.. but the weather cooled off and its been about 2.5 weeks its a steady 75-78..

so thats the story of why theyre so stunted, i totally know what i did wrong from the nutes to the bucket to the temp to the light being too close etc etc.. will i grow a perfect plant next go cause i know these things? probly not, but will be a lot better off than i was this time..

as for the 45degree cut, every cloning guide, help, tips n tricks whatever you wish to call it, saysthat cutting the bottom of the cutting on a 45degree with promote roots to grow more easily.. i even make a tiny slit up the stemp like 3\4inch cause this apparently helps too (i have yet to succesfully clone, but ive only tried this one time so far.. and its been 4days, they dont look too good honestly but i dunno what they SHOULD look like either so i wont trust myself on that one.. im just giving them 10-14days and should root.. and no i dnopt have bubble cloner or anythin, i just put the cuttings in presoaked rw cubes and rooting gel + rooting excelerator and am hoping for the best..

the reason the stem is kind brown like that, is because 2days before topping, i tried cloning from the lower branches of the plant, and in one of my cuts i was a little clumsy and cut into main stem on the down slice, not like THROUGH it, just as if i was skinning the plant a bit, so i peeled off that little.. splinter of stem and it 'healed' that color.. so far anyway

as foor npk, im using lucas formula, id have to read the bottles but lights r off and they are in there so id have to wait until later to check, but like i said lucas formula, seems to be pretty well established as good feeding schedule.. is GH flora series, only the micro and bloom no grow formula.. and its a 1:2 ratio.. .

5ml per Gal of micro
10ml per gal of bloom

and slowly bump it up to 8ml micro - 16ml bloom per GAL when in flowering.. i also give them calmag with every other watering.. ( i mean watering, as in i do following schedule:

feed, water, water with calmag, feed, water, water with calmag.. etc

i just wanted to know if the topping was good , i know the rest isnt lol, its just these are trial plants, so i wanted to 'try' as much as i can on THESe one's, so as not to screw up my next crop.. and topping was something i really wanted to see how it goes...

so far, in the 2 days since topping, each branch has formed 1 entire leaf set, and the next leafset is i dunno there like 1\3 normal size .. i dunno if thats bad or good growth, but it doesnt seem to have slowed that much from before, so that was my main goal, see if topping slows it down or not,i'd say not
 

Katatawnic

Well-Known Member
so thats the story of why theyre so stunted, i totally know what i did wrong from the nutes to the bucket to the temp to the light being too close etc etc.. will i grow a perfect plant next go cause i know these things? probly not, but will be a lot better off than i was this time..
Most often I see people not posting what they've done wrong in the forums. It can be awfully embarrassing... I know first hand. ;) Takes some guts to openly list the mistakes we made, doesn't it? :D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top