Uncle Ben's Topping Technique to Get 2 or 4 Main Colas

I agree on the KISS philosophy but growing for harvest, and growing for genetics propagation are apples and oranges.. As long as you make absolutely no comprimises to the harvest plants in favor of the propagator one really shouldn't affect the other unless you are brutally time constrained, and even then, plants in veg can take alot of neglect and/or abuse..
A friend of mine is currently dragging a future mother along in a carboard box (maybe 12"x18"x18") with a chip fan cut into the side, and a desk lamp running a 13W cfl.. He only looks at it about 2x per week.. It don't look good, but it all works out because its hardly growing so he doesn't need to chop it down often at all to keep it managable.. The box just blends in with other boxes in his storage area..
If the time to grow comes, its there for revival..

Uncle Ben, could you please post your soil mix (recipe) and what/if you feed your mj? Do you use the same soil mix throughout the grow? I have found some of your suggestions regarding plant foods (ex: using Peter's Pro Blossom Booster) but I would love to hear what YOU use, when and how much of it you use, but most importantly the soil mix.
Please forgive my post count, for I am a lowly lurker. Much respect.

226 2tone said:

Uncle Ben, could you please post your soil mix (recipe) and what/if you feed your mj? Do you use the same soil mix throughout the grow? I have found some of your suggestions regarding plant foods (ex: using Peter's Pro Blossom Booster) but I would love to hear what YOU use, when and how much of it you use, but most importantly the soil mix.
Please forgive my post count, for I am a lowly lurker. Much respect.

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I use alot of brown sphagnum peat moss, a large bag of Schultz potting mix, and a bag of cheap potting soil (screened to get rid of the chunky stuff) to make up enough for 30 to 40 gallons of a final mix, which I mix on a cement floor using a shovel and store in large garbage cans. To this base which provides humates, an acidic hit, trace elements, etc. and a little silt to tighten up the mix and retain moisture, I add:

6 or so cups blood meal, 3 or so cups bonemeal, 4 cups dolomite lime, 1 large bag each of vermiculite and perlite (available at Casa dePOT) and alfalfa meal which contains a hormone called triacontanol (purported to increase vegetable production up to 60%). I buy alfalfa feed pellets from a farm and ranch supply store, put about 4 cups of the pellets in a bucket with a gallon of water and give it a good squirt of Ivory dish soap to cut the surface tension, let it stand for 30 minutes, and then dump the slurry into the mix on the floor. I sometimes add composted horse manure, maybe about 3 or 4 gallons of it. The final, slightly moist soil mix is turned well with a shovel and stored for a couple of weeks in garbage cans to "mellow".

Have you noticed that the only perlite Home Depot carries is the Miracle Gro brand that has fertilizer added to it?
and the vermiculite they carry is a very fine grade (not coarse enough for my liking).

At least that's all I can find at all of the home improvement centers around me. I cannot find regular perlite for the
life of me.

Why Ivory soap??

may i ask something.. but first may i say.. kudos to you my good sir for this thread... my first grow will be SOG.... so iw as woundering... do u top the plant if u wanna sog? just the 1 big momma cola. if u do ? when and where?

do i just cut off all of the side branches coming off the main cola constantly???

just want to say thanks for all the research Ben. I myself have just sent to flower a plant I topped as your post suggested and a few others i lst'd in the style of lst as much as I can.

There were a few exenuatig circumstances but the four cola lst job is my favorite. Easiest by far to take care of and to get light in there. My plant has two colas the are on one side that are far more bushy than the other side where they are less veggy, I guess. Less off shoots on the cola. Two are very thick and full.

The others got me lots of little buds. I think they were two lst'd and not enough trimming and training. A way to control them is nice. Mine went all out. Mr miagi on them with twist ties.

I wonder what your response to the arguement that I read today bya botanist on this site that is best not to top or train or stress in anyway if you have a 1000 watter. The penetration is enough and you just get a lot of littler buds and undo stress and time to recover incurred. It seems a few said most comercial don't as it is not needed. The reason was "better yeild" and not laziness.

I have a 600 for flower and a 400 for veg. I am wondering if I should try a hand at no training. Well, I just topped the plants I will veg for two months then flower in my four pot medical perpetual. Uncle Ben style.

By the way, nice to see someone amends the peat like I do. blood, bone and kelp. Greensand for iron too, etc. etc. etc. Man the plants love this style of heavily amended soil and water only. I just switched to peat. I also thru in some peace of mind bulb food. Peace of mind products are loaded with extras. Lots not listed in the ads, only on the box. Talk about your monies worth.

born2killspam said:

Why Ivory soap??

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It's easy on your hands.

IndicaFatnHeavy said:

may i ask something.. but first may i say.. kudos to you my good sir for this thread... my first grow will be SOG.... so iw as woundering... do u top the plant if u wanna sog? just the 1 big momma cola. if u do ? when and where?

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The purpose of SOG is to have plants that are near identical regarding height. If you think you can pull that off doing 4 main colas, then go for it.

do i just cut off all of the side branches coming off the main cola constantly???

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Not unless you want lower yields.

tea tree said:

I wonder what your response to the arguement that I read today bya botanist on this site that is best not to top or train or stress in anyway if you have a 1000 watter. The penetration is enough and you just get a lot of littler buds and undo stress and time to recover incurred. It seems a few said most comercial don't as it is not needed. The reason was "better yeild" and not laziness.

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There is no stress involved and if you have a normal growing plant, there is no real setback. Once you top, you should see new output within 24 hours. What does a 1,000 watter have to do with anything? Light is light, doesn't matter the source. What counts is the amount of total photons received during a normal day regarding the production of simple/complex carbos and proteins via photosynthesis. That guy is feeding you a line.......

I have a 600 for flower and a 400 for veg.

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Sounds backwards to me. A naturally grown plant receives less light during flowering than veg. That premise goes against the paradigms you find parroted in forums, so, whatever floats your boat. I'd use both for veg and flowering if I were you. In fact, I start off with a 400W MH for the kids to young adults and when I think I need more light, add in a 600W HPS.

I am wondering if I should try a hand at no training. Well, I just topped the plants I will veg for two months then flower in my four pot medical perpetual. Uncle Ben style.

By the way, nice to see someone amends the peat like I do. blood, bone and kelp. Greensand for iron too, etc. etc. etc. Man the plants love this style of heavily amended soil and water only. I just switched to peat. I also thru in some peace of mind bulb food. Peace of mind products are loaded with extras. Lots not listed in the ads, only on the box. Talk about your monies worth.

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Slow release foods such as organic bring about the best results. Blood meal is pretty fast source of N, and it can burn. If you get an ammonia smell coming off your soil, then you've used too much.

Have fun,
UB

I grew up with ivory soap for a couple reasons.. My dad said it was the simplest no BS added product out there (fat & lye), and it floated, which was a good thing, because we bathed in the creek during summer rather than carrying in water and wasting propane heating it in the cast iron tub.. (I didn't get plumbing/hydro until I was almost 16)..
He says its changed since then, but I just looked into that, and as far as the bar soap goes, he's wrong.. I checked up on the dishsoap, and I think Ivory is really trying to stick to their purities, because they actually admit that it isn't soap at all, its a detergent..
Anyways, the MSDS listed no harmful chemicals, actually nothing at all.. It simply said "biodegradable anionic surfactants, no phosphate" (for the record the MSDS for the hand detergent was identical).. It seems like a damn good choice for this job..
On a side note though, we used Sunlight dishsoap, and loaded the garden (pot included) with it for pest control via its lemon oil.. Got any opinions on that for this purpose if its not absolutely needed??

I topped 1 of my girls above the fifth node and I have 8 colas that pull the limbs over the sides of the pot. Too much. I like the one I did with 4 tops better! They are evenly spaced with the branches being strong and erect. It must also be noted that both plants' stems/ branches are of equal diameter. But the buds are larger on my 8 top, so I guess it is a matter of dealing with the tying/ sidelighting for the 8. Great Read, UB, from start to finish; Much Respect.

born2killspam said:

I grew up with ivory soap for a couple reasons.. My dad said it was the simplest no BS added product out there (fat & lye), and it floated, which was a good thing, because we bathed in the creek during summer rather than carrying in water and wasting propane heating it in the cast iron tub.. (I didn't get plumbing/hydro until I was almost 16)..

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Man, and I thought I was old!

He says its changed since then, but I just looked into that, and as far as the bar soap goes, he's wrong.. I checked up on the dishsoap, and I think Ivory is really trying to stick to their purities, because they actually admit that it isn't soap at all, its a detergent..

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Yep, reason I recommend it. It is pure and the po'-man's surfactant. The liquid dish soap is what you want. A quick squirt in a gallon of water will get peat back to being hydroscopic in case it's dried out too much.

Anyways, the MSDS listed no harmful chemicals, actually nothing at all.. It simply said "biodegradable anionic surfactants, no phosphate" (for the record the MSDS for the hand detergent was identical).. It seems like a damn good choice for this job..

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Thanks for the info. I've never bothered with the label stuff, been using for so long.

On a side note though, we used Sunlight dishsoap, and loaded the garden (pot included) with it for pest control via its lemon oil.. Got any opinions on that for this purpose if its not absolutely needed??

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Not really. I have orange oil and have used it for a soil drench for springtail control. You can always use a highly refined mineral or paraffin oil to smother bugs like aphids but my first choice would be malathion especially if in flower. (Screams and holding head with hands makes it appearance LOL)

badboomsxy said:

I topped 1 of my girls above the fifth node and I have 8 colas that pull the limbs over the sides of the pot. Too much. I like the one I did with 4 tops better! They are evenly spaced with the branches being strong and erect. It must also be noted that both plants' stems/ branches are of equal diameter. But the buds are larger on my 8 top, so I guess it is a matter of dealing with the tying/ sidelighting for the 8. Great Read, UB, from start to finish; Much Respect.

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The 8 colas buds are bigger than the 4 cola buds?

UB

Man, and I thought I was old!

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Old has nothing to do with it.. This was up to the early 90's (yes '19'90's )My dad just ran off to the bush a few years before I was born and dug in.. Its a hard life no doubt, but a good one too.. We did have alot of amenities running off of 12V's and generators..
We were so far back, (3ish miles from the road) that hydro didn't want anything to do with us.. Then some rich ppl bought an adjacent lot, and paid ~$300k to get hydro into their cabin, and all of a sudden we could do ours for about $20k, doing the work ourselves.. We had to have our poles certified at a ridiculous inspection rate, and had to clear 40' on each side of the line..
Thing is, when you do it against the hydro companies own choice, you own the equipment yourself.. It saved a teeeeny portion bill wise, but we were responible for damage costs (damned beavers!).. Also the rich ppl owned the vast majority, and in order to tap off their line we had to contract to maintain their property, and they were hardly ever there so that was a big fucking job..
All in all, living more of a city life I find it really hard not to flip-out when ppl say something is too much work..

Edit: I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that growing up like that might have something to do with me being a gimmicky nute nazi.. Well, that and common sense..

beautiful. I just flowered 48 inch high White Widows. Normally I've always flowered between 24 & 20 inches, this hight is a first for me. I woke them this morning and I could'nt believe the growth over night; almost 4 inches on the average, as 48 is the average size of them all. Anyone have an idea of what I'm in store for concering growth, as I'm indoors?

how can you speak with someone here

With your keyboard.. Looks like you already got the process nailed..

Uncle Ben said:

The 8 colas buds are bigger than the 4 cola buds?

UB

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Yes, that's correct. However, my 6 girls are from bagseed and who knows what's what. On a side note, this is my first grow and I rushed into it without the correct budget and without doing enough research; I've had severe nute burn due to using mir-gro fertalizer, I'm using bagged soil with no additives to help with drainage, I've had ants and I saw a female go hermie in 2 hours after a careless transplanting. I've finally got it together a couple months later, though, thanks to everyone here at RIU!



[img=http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/1046/8topvs4top.th.jpg]

Miracle gro is the only one I'm sketchy with for this stuff in pots.. Never seen a problem with basic ground gardening, or potted low-appetite flowers etc, but I found that things tend to go downhill after a time, while other plants getting non-MG flowering food did much better and required much less flushing..
The kind I had did contain every bit of its nitrogen in urea form though, and I do like nitrates, both in my soil, and in my food.. Also, not all urea is necessarily equal either, there is a contaminant form called biuret whose concentration can increase via bad storage and incompatibilities.. Maybe thats the reason, maybe I'm off, but there are alot of options so WTH..

born2killspam said:

Old has nothing to do with it.. This was up to the early 90's (yes '19'90's )My dad just ran off to the bush a few years before I was born and dug in.. Its a hard life no doubt, but a good one too.. We did have alot of amenities running off of 12V's and generators..
We were so far back, (3ish miles from the road) that hydro didn't want anything to do with us.. Then some rich ppl bought an adjacent lot, and paid ~$300k to get hydro into their cabin,

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Gotta ask, what is "hydro"? You mean a water source? I have 2 wells with 1 HP pumps in each and have as much water as I want. If this drought doesn't ease up, none of use are gonna have any water! We are about 21" below normal for the last 2 years.

I'm not too hip on Miracle Gro although I like their 30-10-10. Peters has better products. Lot's of choices out there.

Ben

this sounds dumb but wot is a node?

No, electricity via the power company.. We got our drinking water from a spring, and utility water from the creek.. Well the creek water was fine too, but spring water is the best bet for drinking.. Beaver fever is always a risk, and there were times we'd be totally snowed in for days, and even if you chose to take the risk it would take perhaps 12hrs to get a sick person to the truck.. (Assuming the roads would even be drivable)..