Understanding why Ph is irrelevant with organics

Chunky Stool

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
JavaCo said:
This section is fubar because of all the bad advice in here. Should be sectioned out living organics, super soil organics, Bottled organics , hydro organics. All different styles of growing that are for the most part not interchangeable.

Sure someone can go buy a bag of soil and dump it in a pot and just put plain water on it and grow good plants , that's because the person who made the soil put PH buffers in the soil so it stays in PH range. PH still matters in all organics
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I had a hard time with organic soil when using very bright lights and had to go with "semi-organic" to prevent deficiencies.
It worked out fine.
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Tangerine_

Tangerine_

Well-Known Member
G.I.JOSE said:
This is the first time I've used any organic dry Amendment.:D I usually use Advanced Nutrients line
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Friendly tip - with organics its advisable to not disturb the soil. The idea is to let all fungi and bacteria network and jive together. I'd only dig around in my pot like that if I were pulling out some soil to do a slurry test. No need to piss off the herds to water. Just be sure to get the soil good and saturated and then keep it moist.

The mix looks good though. Its got a lot of goodies and some dolomite to stabilize ph.

I might order a bag of base and try it out on some mother plants. With my moms, I'd want to be able to just water so I can do quick foliars when I'm ready to pull cuts.
Oh, and I'm diggin the way you're training those plants in circle. Very cool.
 
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madvillian420

madvillian420

Well-Known Member
Opperhammer said:
Ok. Too much already!!!! Too many people talking far too much about something they know very little of.

ORGANIC GROWING IS Different from hydro because of this very thing. Plants feed differently between the two. In hydro pH is your primary concern because pH dictates how the plant feeds, and ultimately performs. The plant can only take up nutes properly in hydro if if the nutrient solution is in the right pH range. And obviously, the plant can only reach its potential if its properly feeding.

On the other hand, this all goes out the window with organics. Plants feed completely differently in organics.
A SKILLED ORGANIC GROWER FEEDS HIS SOIL , NOT HIS PLANTS.
This means a good organics grower understands that his plants don't feed directly like hydro plants. His plants have to wait at the end of a long table and will be served last. There are many other guests, (like endo and ecto-mycchorrizae, various helpful fungis, billions of various microbes) that all have to eat before your plants. Seems rude to make the guest of the evening wait like this until, you understand the real reason for the wait. In fact, all the other guests aren't guests at all.
They are all serving your plant. Each one has a specific job to do. They will consume the meal and feed and then feed it to your plants. Think of it as worker ants feeding their Queen. And it is this process that renders pH irrelevant in organics. As long as you are using good organic soil and good nutes, no reason to even concern yourself with pH. Concern yourself with maintaining good healthy soil. Molasses isn't used organically for your plants. Molasses is a very water soluble carbohydrate (sugar). Its used organically to feed and nurture the bacterium and microbes in the soil. All bacterium love sugar. Happy workers do good work. Keep the workers happy and they in turn keep your plants happy. You can also keep them happy by lessening their workload from time to time. You do this between feedings by using an enzyme supplement, (I use senizyme). Enzymes come in like a cleanup crew. They take care of all the leftovers and put away the dishes so that the table is clean and ready for the next meal. This process not only gives additional food to your plants, it prevents nutrient build up in the soil.

Keep your soil happy and forget about pH with organics. Its complete nonsense and I have a low threshold for ignorance
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dang thanks bro we never heard or knew about any of these truth bombs you dropped on us
 
SFnone

SFnone

Well-Known Member
ounevinsmoke said:
Man it cost a lot to grow "organic" if you have to buy all that.
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Yeah it can vary based on what you use and what you have access to locally, but overall it's actually a lot cheaper if you are growing a lot of plants... The more you have going, the more you end up saving. You can also mostly reuse the soil, making it very affordable the second round. The mix i mentioned was kind of funky because i threw all kinds of things into it that were probably unnecessary, but it ended up being a good price... I think it was around $200-220 give or take, and if i remember right, it was enough for... 150 gallons... I think that's right... I think it would end up being more money for half the amount of soil if you went with something like ffof. If you can keep worms, or make your own quality compost, it can really cut the cost even more. I live in a rocky area where the dirt kind of sucks, so i have to build the soil, but if you live in a place with good natural soil, you could probably just add some amendments directly and really take the price down.
 
I

ID420

New Member
I’m new to organic growing. I have 2 plants with the same exact genetics. One im feeding organics the other I am feeding with advanced nutrients. I’m not going to go into specifics of which type of nutrients of AN im using or which of the organics since this is a forum talking about ph. But in my experience its true what they say about chemical nutrients outpacing organics in growth. We will see about the smell and taste and density in the end result. But I digress, my organic grow was looking lush and green really green which made me think of nitrogen toxicity. Because the buds were underdeveloped in compared to their chemical counterparts. Going into week 3. Figured I’d go against the idea of not needing for the organic growing to ph at all. I mean it looks lush but I wasn’t liking that it was looking slightly moopy. I check the ph of run the off and it was like 5.8. Now since people are saying that the soil adjust itself to grow along with the plant. Being it’s about to start week 3 I’d assume the ph would rise to start focusing on developing the bud right? Obviously it didn’t. I ended up watering to run off of 2 gals in a 10gallon fabric pot. Checked the ph at 6.5 and stopped watering and left her be. Came to the room the next day the shade of green was reduced slightly but the plants were pointing up and looking healthy. I’m not saying it’s full proof but I mean for me it ended up being that ph matters ‍♂ I do use filtered water and no phing water
 
W

waktoo

Well-Known Member
Opperhammer said:
Ok. Too much already!!!! Too many people talking far too much about something they know very little of.

ORGANIC GROWING IS Different from hydro because of this very thing. Plants feed differently between the two. In hydro pH is your primary concern because pH dictates how the plant feeds, and ultimately performs. The plant can only take up nutes properly in hydro if if the nutrient solution is in the right pH range. And obviously, the plant can only reach its potential if its properly feeding.

On the other hand, this all goes out the window with organics. Plants feed completely differently in organics.
A SKILLED ORGANIC GROWER FEEDS HIS SOIL , NOT HIS PLANTS.
This means a good organics grower understands that his plants don't feed directly like hydro plants. His plants have to wait at the end of a long table and will be served last. There are many other guests, (like endo and ecto-mycchorrizae, various helpful fungis, billions of various microbes) that all have to eat before your plants. Seems rude to make the guest of the evening wait like this until, you understand the real reason for the wait. In fact, all the other guests aren't guests at all.
They are all serving your plant. Each one has a specific job to do. They will consume the meal and feed and then feed it to your plants. Think of it as worker ants feeding their Queen. And it is this process that renders pH irrelevant in organics. As long as you are using good organic soil and good nutes, no reason to even concern yourself with pH. Concern yourself with maintaining good healthy soil. Molasses isn't used organically for your plants. Molasses is a very water soluble carbohydrate (sugar). Its used organically to feed and nurture the bacterium and microbes in the soil. All bacterium love sugar. Happy workers do good work. Keep the workers happy and they in turn keep your plants happy. You can also keep them happy by lessening their workload from time to time. You do this between feedings by using an enzyme supplement, (I use senizyme). Enzymes come in like a cleanup crew. They take care of all the leftovers and put away the dishes so that the table is clean and ready for the next meal. This process not only gives additional food to your plants, it prevents nutrient build up in the soil.

Keep your soil happy and forget about pH with organics. Its complete nonsense and I have a low threshold for ignorance
Click to expand...
The scientifically illiterate should not post concerning the nature of soil chemistry...
 
W

waterproof808

Well-Known Member
Ahh must be a new recruit to the Probiotic Farmers Alliance cult. I remember my first time reading true living organics...
 
quirk

quirk

Well-Known Member
I'm fortunate to have aquifer sourced water perfect for organic growing with no ph concerns. White privilege?


Too soon?
 
G

guhman2002

Well-Known Member
JavaCo said:
This section is fubar because of all the bad advice in here. Should be sectioned out living organics, super soil organics, Bottled organics , hydro organics. All different styles of growing that are for the most part not interchangeable.

Sure someone can go buy a bag of soil and dump it in a pot and just put plain water on it and grow good plants , that's because the person who made the soil put PH buffers in the soil so it stays in PH range. PH still matters in all organics
Click to expand...
Funny you should say that... You should see my new post on here... I'm doing a side-by-side-by-side-by-side-by-side sectioned out with, Super Soil, TLO, LOS, Bottled Organics, and a "hybrid/cobbhobble". Just posted it yesterday. Hopefully I can keep it all on track and have it all on one post for myself and others to learn and see.
 
MustangStudFarm

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
Tangerine_ said:
And when offering advice, all anyone can do is give a visual analysis. Without soil testing, its near impossible to give an answer thats 100%.
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Finally, I can agree with this! I felt like I was getting laughed at for years about getting my soil tested, and it was members on here doing the heckling!!! I have used Logan Labs, Spectrum Ananlytic, and Soil Savvy. I found Logan Labs to be the hardest to read while Spectrum and Soil Savvy give bar graphs that are easy to read. Anyways, I found that when my soil is over 6.5, I will start having micronutirent lockout. Funny story, the soil testing labs will tell you to look at the Ph first before looking at the other stats because it has the biggest affect on your soil. Anyways, I agree 100% and I have more respect for you now and I've seen you killing it in the Bodhi section!
 
Tangerine_

Tangerine_

Well-Known Member
guhman2002 said:
Funny you should say that... You should see my new post on here... I'm doing a side-by-side-by-side-by-side-by-side sectioned out with, Super Soil, TLO, LOS, Bottled Organics, and a "hybrid/cobbhobble". Just posted it yesterday. Hopefully I can keep it all on track and have it all on one post for myself and others to learn and see.
Click to expand...
Woah. :clap: That is a lot to keep track of. It should offer up some interesting observations.
Going over to sub now.
 
Chunky Stool

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
MustangStudFarm said:
Micronutirents? I always have problems with Manganese(Mn not Mg). Manganese sulfate is naturally occurring but it cannot be labeled "Organic" because it doesn't have a carbon molecule. So, by that definition, I am not 100% organic either.
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They looked deficient in everything because the organic soil was spent.
My biggest pot this run is 10 gallon.
Don't want to top-dress em because it'll bring bugz, so I hit em with a light dose of Mills every week.
— edit —
Seems to be working OK
E5A19F2F-36E7-4A74-B1B6-CE5E3207914E.jpeg
 
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