Unknown deficiency / Possibly lock out - Pics posted - Help PLEASE!

A

Arabic

Well-Known Member
My nutes are about 1000-1,200 ppm to plants less than 4 weeks in flower and 1,400 ppm for those with buds.

I use heavy 16 (prime, Bud A, Bud B)
Crystal burst as a pk booster (0-15-15)
Gen organics Calmag
Florablend and Floranectar

The crystal burst Pk booster shoots my ppm to 1,400.


Lower leaves all look like they are dying, drying out from the outside in. It's happening to ALL of my plants regardless of age! I notice the ones with tomato cages have it slightly worse. Is there some disease being transmitted between my plants? I don't have any bugs atm. I mighty washed. What else can I use during bloom to keep bugs off? Should I spray regularly with water? I never foliar feed during bloom.

Here are pics of the leaves/buds:

IMG_0576.jpgIMG_0578.jpgIMG_0579.jpgIMG_0580.jpgIMG_0581.jpgIMG_0583.jpg



I'm going to test the PH of the runoff water after todays watering. I don't have a soil PH meter at the moment.
 
ThorGanjason

ThorGanjason

Well-Known Member
The first place you always want to start when diagnosing a plant is finding where the damage/discoloration or whatever is at. You've done that already, pointing out that its the older leaves that are showing symptoms.

Have you ever read/heard about elements being mobile? Some are totally mobile, and can move back and forth through a plant. Deficiencies in mobile elements show up in older growth first, so that at least narrows it down.

You sound like you're on quite a regiment of nutes. As long as you haven't increased strength or anything lately, and tour plants have handled the amount of nutes you've given them then it might not be nute burn.

I'm not familiar with the nutes, but if they are synthetic then you are definitely pushing the limits when you get around 1400 ppm. Some people can go as high as 1800, but not all strains are the same and no two inside environments are, really, either. If you aren't getting enough waterings in in between feedings it could very well be burn (looks like a good possibility IMO). Or it could happen if you haven't flushed enough and have a salt build up, or if you haven't flushed well enough in general.

I have a $20 pH soil detector, but honestly I think I've learned a lot more about how my pH is affected (and how its changing/being affected when I feed and stuff) by just using the solution indicator die and testing my water by itself, testing my water after I've added my nutes, and then catching the drainage and testing the pH of my runoff. If you're running soil (I run fox farms with a smidge of extra perlite and dolomite lime. A 40 pound bag costs 3.50 and a teaspoon treats a gallon of soil. Helps buffer pH [keep it higher where nutes usually keep it lower] and also provides long term calcium and magnesium.). But yeah running soil, pH shouldn't be a problem unless you have a salt build up from using synthetic nutes and not rinsing properly.

Whether its overfeeding, salt build up, or pH problems, your answer for any of those is to just flush the shit out of them with water pH'd to 6.5.

bUT!! If it is a deficiency, my vote is going to calcium based off of the fact that the yellowing borders the leaf and has brown necrotic spots on it.

Still think a flush is your cure tho.
 
MYOB

MYOB

Well-Known Member
You're feeding at 12-1400ppm and you think you have a deficiency?

What meter are you using?
 
A

Arabic

Well-Known Member
ThorGanjason said:
The first place you always want to start when diagnosing a plant is finding where the damage/discoloration or whatever is at. You've done that already, pointing out that its the older leaves that are showing symptoms.

Have you ever read/heard about elements being mobile? Some are totally mobile, and can move back and forth through a plant. Deficiencies in mobile elements show up in older growth first, so that at least narrows it down.

You sound like you're on quite a regiment of nutes. As long as you haven't increased strength or anything lately, and tour plants have handled the amount of nutes you've given them then it might not be nute burn.

I'm not familiar with the nutes, but if they are synthetic then you are definitely pushing the limits when you get around 1400 ppm. Some people can go as high as 1800, but not all strains are the same and no two inside environments are, really, either. If you aren't getting enough waterings in in between feedings it could very well be burn (looks like a good possibility IMO). Or it could happen if you haven't flushed enough and have a salt build up, or if you haven't flushed well enough in general.

I have a $20 pH soil detector, but honestly I think I've learned a lot more about how my pH is affected (and how its changing/being affected when I feed and stuff) by just using the solution indicator die and testing my water by itself, testing my water after I've added my nutes, and then catching the drainage and testing the pH of my runoff. If you're running soil (I run fox farms with a smidge of extra perlite and dolomite lime. A 40 pound bag costs 3.50 and a teaspoon treats a gallon of soil. Helps buffer pH [keep it higher where nutes usually keep it lower] and also provides long term calcium and magnesium.). But yeah running soil, pH shouldn't be a problem unless you have a salt build up from using synthetic nutes and not rinsing properly.

Whether its overfeeding, salt build up, or pH problems, your answer for any of those is to just flush the shit out of them with water pH'd to 6.5.

bUT!! If it is a deficiency, my vote is going to calcium based off of the fact that the yellowing borders the leaf and has brown necrotic spots on it.

Still think a flush is your cure tho.
Click to expand...
I think I am one step closer to identifying the culprit, low PH!

I PH'd my nutrients today and they were at 6.1-6.2, I will supplement a silica product to increase my PH from now on (Pro-Tekt by DynaGro increases PH rather well)

I watered anyway with the 6.2 water and the runoff was roughly the same.



MYOB said:
You're feeding at 12-1400ppm and you think you have a deficiency?

What meter are you using?
Click to expand...
I'm using an HM Digital PPM pen.


I believe my next step is to PH my soil, do you guys still think I should flush with PH'd water the next time they are thirsty? I don't think it has anything to do with the nutrients because even a plant i've had in there for 2 weeks is doing the same. They were all fine during veg. I've also started watering a lot more carefully instead of just pouring the water over my soil, I figured me doing that was causing the water to go to the same places over and over and a great deal of roots were missed. I am using 10 gallon pots after all.
 
A

Arabic

Well-Known Member
*BUDS said:
Nute Burn, flush and back off to about 900ppm.
Click to expand...

You sound like you're sure.. In that case I'm going to re-calibrate my PPM pen and be extra careful not to exceed 1000 ppm. This is a rather noob question, but when I flush, I just use plain 6.5 water and use 5x the growing medium? I need to run 50 gallons through my medium? I'm thinking ~20 gallons (I'm in 10 gallon pots)
 
EvlMunkee

EvlMunkee

Well-Known Member
I'm going to agree with *BUDS. With that level of ppms.you are unlikely to have a def, more than likely it's a lockout. and the low ph is prob due to excessive nutes (buildup)
 
Bublonichronic

Bublonichronic

Well-Known Member
Ur in soil right? If ur in 10 gal pots you might be able to get away with 5 gallon flush, but it really depends on what's goin on in the medium
 
A

Arabic

Well-Known Member
Bublonichronic said:
Ur in soil right? If ur in 10 gal pots you might be able to get away with 5 gallon flush, but it really depends on what's goin on in the medium
Click to expand...
I'm in soil, first time I used Pro-Mix and first time I've had this problem.

Heavy 16 just released a flush you are supposed to use the entire time. I guess following a feeding schedule is important.. I was told many times by people that have used it that they don't experience nute build up because it's mostly organic and relatively clean stuff. *Shrug*:dunce:
 
ThorGanjason

ThorGanjason

Well-Known Member
Its a salt build up, I about guarantee it.

In soil you more than likely won't have pH problems, especially if you're nutes going I'm are 6.2 that's damn near the sweet spot. If you want to help the pH of your soil, just male sure your water is 6.2-6.8 going on, and maybe sprinkle a teaspoon or 2 of lime on top of your soil.
 
ThorGanjason

ThorGanjason

Well-Known Member
Arabic said:
I'm in soil, first time I used Pro-Mix and first time I've had this problem.

Heavy 16 just released a flush you are supposed to use the entire time. I guess following a feeding schedule is important.. I was told many times by people that have used it that they don't experience nute build up because it's mostly organic and relatively clean stuff. *Shrug*:dunce:
Click to expand...
Yeah, flushing is so important. I use smart pots, they are basically just made of felt but it helps the dirt breathe so it dries out faster. The faster it dries out, the more often I can feed, AND the more often I can squeeze in flushes.

And yeah, being on regiments like that, the feeding schedule is crucial. Even if you don't want to follow theirs to a T, at least make a little chart so you can check off when you gave them what, that way you can just glance real quick and see how long its been since a flush.

And for what its worth, when I first pH'd my nute water the solution turned red, meaning ≈4.0. I had a lot of lime in my soil, so I watered/fed with it anyways (I had been for a couple weeks but low strength organic nutes). I collected the drainage and tested it, and it was like right over 6. It basically buffered the solution in the soil and by the time the water came out the bottom its pH was different.

Someone told me that I needed to start pH'ing my water to 6.5, but honestly even if I do my runoff pH is still the same. I've not noticed any difference at all from adjustingmy pH, since I put the lime in there anyways.

Soil is pH forgiving, its actually pretty rare for it to be a pH problem in soil. Hydros a whole 'nother animal tho.
 
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