up the N? please help

tentsetup

tentsetup

Member
FOAF has been flowering a plant for about 9 weeks now. This is his first organic grow using only compost teas anaerobic and aerobic with a mycorhizal fungi application for nutrients. Grown in soil under a 250mh for veg and a 250hps for veg. One LA woman showing no signs of yellowing or dying leaves, one Kandy Kush with a lot of yellowing leaves.

FOAF's question is: how does one tell whether the yellowing and dying off of his leaves is due to being in the later stages of flowering or due to a to low nitrogen level in his compost teas.
 
Jerry Garcia

Jerry Garcia

Well-Known Member
any yellowing means a deficiency, regardless of stage in life. the kandy kush is probably a heavier feeder than the LA woman, if all other conditions/variables are the same, so feed it a higher concentration of tea, or get some cheap organic fish emulsion fertilizer (5-1-1) and give them each a proper feeding, usually 1 tbsp per gallon water.

also, mycorrhizae provide no nutritional benefit to the plant.
 
PlantManBee

PlantManBee

Well-Known Member
gotta disagree with Jerry here. how are the trichs looking? if the trichs are milky and the leave are starting to yellow at the same time IMHO the plant is in sync and you've got it dialed in. it's not BAD to have it green at the end, just not optimal. :eyesmoke:
 
M

madodah

Well-Known Member
PlantManBee said:
gotta disagree with Jerry here. how are the trichs looking? if the trichs are milky and the leave are starting to yellow at the same time IMHO the plant is in sync and you've got it dialed in. it's not BAD to have it green at the end, just not optimal. :eyesmoke:
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I'm an outdoor grower and agree with your analysis. I like the calyx to suck every resource from the plant they can, especially to the point of most leaves turning yellow.
 
LAX Skunky BwS

LAX Skunky BwS

Well-Known Member
tentsetup said:
FOAF has been flowering a plant for about 9 weeks now. This is his first organic grow using only compost teas anaerobic and aerobic with a mycorhizal fungi application for nutrients. Grown in soil under a 250mh for veg and a 250hps for veg. One LA woman showing no signs of yellowing or dying leaves, one Kandy Kush with a lot of yellowing leaves.

FOAF's question is: how does one tell whether the yellowing and dying off of his leaves is due to being in the later stages of flowering or due to a to low nitrogen level in his compost teas.
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lmaooo 9 weeks? into flowering?? that must mean, considering both plants are indica... they should be done!! by now ... very lil or no nitrogen needed when flowering
 
PlantManBee

PlantManBee

Well-Known Member
LAX Skunky BwS said:
lmaooo 9 weeks? into flowering?? that must mean, considering both plants are indica... they should be done!! by now ... very lil or no nitrogen needed when flowering
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I'm sure both of those are probably 10 week strains, despite breeders claims. Sounds good unless the trichs are all clear IMHO.:eyesmoke:
 
Jerry Garcia

Jerry Garcia

Well-Known Member
Ok PlantMan, I get what you're saying, but why is just one plant yellowing and not the other, if all other conditions are the same? Because one needs more N than the other.

And, as I said, YELLOWING MEANS A DEFICIENCY. You are arguing that you WANT the deficiency late in flower, which usually happens as a result of flushing. I have tried flushing and not flushing, and found little difference in the final product of my buds. I've also noticed the plants with healthy fan leaves throughout flower yield the best.

If his plant is significantly yellowing now it has probably been doing it for a while, which means it has not been optimally fed for a while, which means yield will be reduced.

Healthy, productive fan leaves are what create healthy, fat buds.

So as I said, yellowing means deficiency, period. Whether you are deliberately doing it or not (as I suppose most people on these forums do it unintentionally because they abandon all nitrogen the minute the plant goes into flower) doesn't change the fact that yellow leaves are caused by a deficiency.

But, at 9 weeks flower there is no point going back and feeding the emulsion fert I recommended (I missed the part where he was at 9 weeks flower). But it doesn't change the fact that the affected plant would have benefited from a higher dose of nitrogen earlier during flower!
 
M

madodah

Well-Known Member
Jerry Garcia said:
any yellowing means a deficiency, regardless of stage in life. the kandy kush is probably a heavier feeder than the LA woman, if all other conditions/variables are the same, so feed it a higher concentration of tea, or get some cheap organic fish emulsion fertilizer (5-1-1) and give them each a proper feeding, usually 1 tbsp per gallon water.

also, mycorrhizae provide no nutritional benefit to the plant.
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If that cheap, organic 5-1-1 fish emulsion is Alaska Fish Fertilizer 5-1-1 it has lost its OMRI listing and is no longer approved for food production or as an organic fertilizer.
 
PlantManBee

PlantManBee

Well-Known Member
Jerry Garcia said:
Ok PlantMan, I get what you're saying, but why is just one plant yellowing and not the other, if all other conditions are the same? Because one needs more N than the other.

And, as I said, YELLOWING MEANS A DEFICIENCY. You are arguing that you WANT the deficiency late in flower, which usually happens as a result of flushing. I have tried flushing and not flushing, and found little difference in the final product of my buds. I've also noticed the plants with healthy fan leaves throughout flower yield the best.

If his plant is significantly yellowing now it has probably been doing it for a while, which means it has not been optimally fed for a while, which means yield will be reduced.

Healthy, productive fan leaves are what create healthy, fat buds.

So as I said, yellowing means deficiency, period. Whether you are deliberately doing it or not (as I suppose most people on these forums do it unintentionally because they abandon all nitrogen the minute the plant goes into flower) doesn't change the fact that yellow leaves are caused by a deficiency.

But, at 9 weeks flower there is no point going back and feeding the emulsion fert I recommended (I missed the part where he was at 9 weeks flower). But it doesn't change the fact that the affected plant would have benefited from a higher dose of nitrogen earlier during flower!
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you're making it more complicated than it is lol i'm not arguing anything lol his plants are where they are supposed to be. he may or may not have any change in yield, at this point he's fine.:blsmoke:
 
Jerry Garcia

Jerry Garcia

Well-Known Member
madodah said:
If that cheap, organic 5-1-1 fish emulsion is Alaska Fish Fertilizer 5-1-1 it has lost its OMRI listing and is no longer approved for food production or as an organic fertilizer.
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I was unaware that particular brand lost certification...I actually use Neptune's Harvest fish+seaweed now, but I used to use Ferti-Lome or something like that. Available at hardware stores in the states...and now that I think about it I'm not even sure that was 100% organic. The Neptune's stuff is though.

PlantManBee said:
you're making it more complicated than it is lol i'm not arguing anything lol his plants are where they are supposed to be. he may or may not have any change in yield, at this point he's fine.:blsmoke:
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You're right, I am making things more complicated than they need to be. It's just that I feel conventional forum "wisdom" often leads people to use insufficient amounts of Nitrogen throughout flower, resulting in deficiencies like the op described. In general people use way to much phosphorous and not enough nitrogen during flower, especially in the early stages.

tentsetup...you have any pics of the plants to share?
 
M

madodah

Well-Known Member
That's the beauty of an organic grow with a properly prepared growing media. No nutrient additions, merely water and use an AACT tea for vegetation and flowering to rejuvenate the microbe colonies who service plant nutritional demands.
 
tentsetup

tentsetup

Member
thanks for all the help guys i really appreciate it. at this point it seems that there may be a N deficiency in my Kandy however i gave it a good shot of nute tea with added blood and bone meal. I think now though that it is just due to being late in flowering. Both are almost done im getting excited. Surprisingly the LA was less prone to nute burn and soaked up more nutes than did the kandy but i think i have things dialed in for the last week now. Btw all plants need N when flowering.. dont know who said that but granted it needs to be a less than during veg but they still need it.

Im flushing them now... i at least believe in its ability to help the flavor of the product. they got there last nute tea with a nice shot of N for the kandy. La is looking hardy and has a massive copa. Lookin at a qp would be my guess.

agian thanks for all the help guys

oh and i would whole heartedly say that the fungi application is awesome!!! and mother nature is the shit!..leave her to her work
 
tehnick

tehnick

Member
Jerry Garcia said:
Ok PlantMan, I get what you're saying, but why is just one plant yellowing and not the other, if all other conditions are the same? Because one needs more N than the other.

And, as I said, YELLOWING MEANS A DEFICIENCY. You are arguing that you WANT the deficiency late in flower, which usually happens as a result of flushing. I have tried flushing and not flushing, and found little difference in the final product of my buds. I've also noticed the plants with healthy fan leaves throughout flower yield the best.

If his plant is significantly yellowing now it has probably been doing it for a while, which means it has not been optimally fed for a while, which means yield will be reduced.

Healthy, productive fan leaves are what create healthy, fat buds.

So as I said, yellowing means deficiency, period. Whether you are deliberately doing it or not (as I suppose most people on these forums do it unintentionally because they abandon all nitrogen the minute the plant goes into flower) doesn't change the fact that yellow leaves are caused by a deficiency.

But, at 9 weeks flower there is no point going back and feeding the emulsion fert I recommended (I missed the part where he was at 9 weeks flower). But it doesn't change the fact that the affected plant would have benefited from a higher dose of nitrogen earlier during flower!
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but yellowing of the leaves late in flower is completely normal. The plants do not need as much nitrogen during flower and as the remainder is consumed from the PK increase, the leaves will yellow. This also happens with cannabis that grows naturally. It's a common trait of annual plants. Ever heard of FALL?

PS, the OP said in his first post how late he was into flower so don't jump down the throats of others giving good advice. Your advice is correct in general, but not in principle due to the details. The details make all the difference. Oh, and a mag deficiency can also cause yellowing of the leaves. ;)
 
Jerry Garcia

Jerry Garcia

Well-Known Member
tehnick said:
Sorry to burst your bubble, but yellowing of the leaves late in flower is completely normal. The plants do not need as much nitrogen during flower and as the remainder is consumed from the PK increase, the leaves will yellow. This also happens with cannabis that grows naturally. It's a common trait of annual plants. Ever heard of FALL?
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Thanks, I already said I didn't realize he was at 9 weeks flower. It's even in the quote you posted. So let's talk about jumping down throats. And yes, I'm familiar with all the seasons.

Plants DO need as much nitrogen during the first few weeks of flower. It is easy to keep a plants leaves nice and green throughout the duration of the grow. People like to let them yellow at the end to make the final product more smooth when consumed...which has nothing to do with what the plant would do in nature. OBVIOUSLY the leaves will yellow and the plant will eventually die as the seasons change. The reason they do it at 9 weeks of flowering indoors is because they haven't been given the proper nutrients, whether intentionally or not.

tehnick said:
PS, the OP said in his first post how late he was into flower so don't jump down the throats of others giving good advice. Your advice is correct in general, but not in principle due to the details. The details make all the difference.
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The only problem with my advice was that I didn't initially realize he was at week 9 of flower!
 
Jerry Garcia

Jerry Garcia

Well-Known Member
tentsetup said:
Im flushing them now... i at least believe in its ability to help the flavor of the product. they got there last nute tea with a nice shot of N for the kandy. La is looking hardy and has a massive copa. Lookin at a qp would be my guess.

oh and i would whole heartedly say that the fungi application is awesome!!! and mother nature is the shit!..leave her to her work
Click to expand...
I go back on forth on the merits of flushing...some grows I do it, some I don't. Usually I will gradually decrease the amount of nutrients I feed them, so the last few feedings are water only, which is kinda like flushing. I don't mind letting my plants fade to yellow at the end to ripen them up a bit.

And regarding the mycorrhizae...I've been incorporating them into my soilless mix recently and I'm pretty pleased with the results. I've yet to do a proper side by side comparison to see if they really work, but they certainly don't seem to harm my plants.

Looking forward to the pics!
 
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