Urgent please

Greendreams94 said:

@Singlemalt it seems youre the one to ask. 3 things mainly. 1. wtf is on my leaves? haha 2. is Pyrethrum safe to use while flowering and 3. if not, what do i use to get rid of these spidermites/thrips

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1) not diagnostic enough, no critters seen, and I can't tell if those are leaf miner trails. What's on the backside of leaves?
2) I'd use pyrethrum as a later treatment; like vape juice components Food grade safe does not relate to inhalation safe. You don't appear to have much damage,I'd only use Pyr as a last resort. Spinosad is my rec. If you have to use Pyr, do it at a low rec rate, at dusk if outdoor, or right after lights go out in tents
3) Spinosad first time

Also note Natural pyrethrum vs synthetic pyrethrin. Natural is an extract of a Chrysanthemum

Singlemalt said:

1) not diagnostic enough, no critters seen, and I can't tell if those are leaf miner trails. What's on the backside of leaves?
2) I'd use pyrethrum as a later treatment; like vape juice components Food grade safe does not relate to inhalation safe. You don't appear to have much damage,I'd only use Pyr as a last resort. Spinosad is my rec. If you have to use Pyr, do it at a low rec rate, at dusk if outdoor, or right after lights go out in tents
3) Spinosad first time

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this as the best pic i could get of the underside for you, i dont have the best camera equipment. there seems to be no visible damage to the underside of the affected leaves



*edit* correction there is very slightly visible markings on the underside on closer inspection, very similar to the top side but very faint.

Greendreams94 said:

this as the best pic i could get of the underside for you, i dont have the best camera equipment. there seems to be no visible damage to the underside of the affected leaves

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Enlarge and look closely at the large middle leaf, see those red dots. Look under other leaves, use magnification and see if you can see them moving. That is what mites look like.

Use the same magnifying glass and check in your soil for white/clear looking bugs. That's how you tell the difference, mites won't be in your soil.

Edited to add: It is possible to have both mites and thrips. Because you have one does not rule out the other.

Greendreams94 said:

this as the best pic i could get of the underside for you, i dont have the best camera equipment. there seems to be no visible damage to the underside of the affected leaves

View attachment 4256929 View attachment 4256930 View attachment 4256931

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I see critters but not what they are. No real apparent damage so it's early, hit 'em with spinosad, or even a 10% alcohol spray.
Are these plants indoor? If cleaniness is imperative, all leaf litter and piles of soil media must be gone

Singlemalt said:

I see critters but not what they are. No real apparent damage so it's early, hit 'em with spinosad, or even a 10% alcohol spray.
Are these plants indoor? If cleaniness is imperative, all leaf litter and piles of soil media must be gone

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Yes they are indoors in a 3ft x 3ft x 6"ft tent, with ducting going outside for fresh air. should i be removing the dead yellow leaves that have falling into the soil? i figured i should leave them there as i thought they might be benificial for the soil

The front side of the leaf is showing thrip damage no doubt. I do see what looks like some kind of bug (not sure what, but would guess spider mite) on the back side of the leaf. Spinosad will kill off the thrips DEAD in 2-3 days. Spinosad doesnt work on Spider mites so if you do have spider mites, you will need to bump up the arsenal to pyrethrins. Remove all dead plant matter from the grow. Its nothing but supper and a bed for bugs.

Greendreams94 said:

Yes they are indoors in a 3ft x 3ft x 6"ft tent, with ducting going outside for fresh air. should i be removing the dead yellow leaves that have falling into the soil? i figured i should leave them there as i thought they might be benificial for the soil

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Yes remove them, they harbor mite eggs and larvae.

Singlemalt said:

I see critters but not what they are. No real apparent damage so it's early, hit 'em with spinosad, or even a 10% alcohol spray.
Are these plants indoor? If cleaniness is imperative, all leaf litter and piles of soil media must be gone

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I can't even be sure they are critters since he's in coco and if it's dry you can get some coco pith on the underside of the leaves. However the fact they are both round and the same conforming body type raises my index of suspicion. Anyway without a macro lens the only person who can figure this out is him with a magnifying glass!

Look at the light brown dots on the undersides of your leafs with a magnifying glass. Those are what I believe may possibly be spider mites. You gotta look close and see if there is any kind of webbing....even just one strand should be a tell. If you look close, the shadows of the dots look like they are elevated from the surface of the leaf....almost as if they are on a "web".

Found this in the soil. So this is a thrip?

Looks like a thrip to me. Theres about 2000 differnt kind but ya.

Thats what is putting the white spots on your leafs. They often hang out in the center vein of the leaf where they are hard to find. Yours may be easier to spot since they are dark colored.

Now you need to figure out what those brown dots are on the bottom side of the leafs. Can you inspect them closer with a magnifying glass or even a pair of reading glasses used like a magnifying glass?

HydroRed said:

Now you need to figure out what those brown dots are on the bottom side of the leafs. Can you inspect them closer with a magnifying glass or even a pair of reading glasses used like a magnifying glass?

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i believe it may have been just a few pieces of coco stuck to the leaf it wasnt moving at all when i took the picture and saw it and it didnt look like an insect

HydroRed said:

Thats what is putting the white spots on your leafs. They often hang out in the center vein of the leaf where they are hard to find. Yours may be easier to spot since they are dark colored.

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that one i found in the soil was dark but the one i found on the leaf earlier was white

Greendreams94 said:

i believe it may have been just a few pieces of coco stuck to the leaf it wasnt moving at all when i took the picture and saw it and it didnt look like an insect

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I hope youre right with the spider mites. The difference in getting rid of spider mites and getting rid of Thrips is night & day in comparison. Get you some Monterey Brand Spinosad and follow the directions on the bottle. They'll be gone in like 3 days. Best of luck!

HydroRed said:

I hope youre right with the spider mites. The difference in getting rid of spider mites and getting rid of Thrips is night & day in comparison. Get you some Monterey Brand Spinosad and follow the directions on the bottle. They'll be gone in like 3 days. Best of luck!

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I will go to the store and buy a magnifying glass tomorrow and double check that i dont have spider mites also. if i do, what would you recommend i use

Greendreams94 said:

I will go to the store and buy a magnifying glass tomorrow and double check that i dont have spider mites also. if i do, what would you recommend i use

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You must use Spinosad as a root drench. That is the only way to get rid of them and it's crucial you add 1-2 drops of Dawn dishwashing liquid as a surfactant or you will not get rid of them. The oils and waxes on their bodies will form surface drops of air allowing enough of them to live.

It's 15cc/1 gallon water with 1-2 drops Dawn. Water with that every 3 days until they are gone. Usually takes 3-4 waterings. Then weekly root drench until you harvest.

If it's mites and I must have those genetics I clone the plant, isolate it and dip it in Avid and root drench with Avid (Avermectin). I won't flower a plant with mites and I won't allow it to stay anywhere in my indoor grow for concern about establishing a mite colony. Here is the MSDS on Avermectin: https://www.caymanchem.com/msdss/17453m.pdf This is an issue in mammals because you can generalize the Glutamate channel to our Glycine channel hence the neurotoxicity.

If you use Avid you have to clone out for three generations without treatment before you can flower. I actually wear full chemical warfare gear when I work with Avid. Avid is a potent neurotoxin. I do not have mites in my garden for this very reason. If you get mites established it is almost impossible to completely get rid of them. I'm sure some here have had success.

I've been looking at Grandevo and Venerate from Marrone (https://marronebioinnovations.com/), as I've been extremely happy with their Regalia product. But I have no direct experience.

As for Pyrethrins 1 PPM is considered enough of a contaminant in CA to consider unsafe and it's not approved for use here in Cannabis (https://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/cannabis/can_use_pesticide.pdf.) Here's an interesting article on Pyrethrins: https://www.projectcbd.org/cannabis-pesticide-regulations-need-rethink-pyrethrins-eagle-20. I personally do not use them because they did not work in veg for me.

Essentially you want to look at products safe to be used on Tobacco. I come from medicine so I'm far more conservative than most. Since I do not sell I am mostly researching and breeding for a specific trait; pain relief.

Good luck

HydroRed said:

Looks like a thrip to me. Theres about 2000 differnt kind but ya.

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Really???

Looks like a type of springtail to me.