Vaccine makers and federal officials will be immune from lawsuits.. WTF

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hjdCHrP82YTFser5vD6CzTK1az6wD99GH8580

Legal immunity set for swine flu vaccine makers
By MIKE STOBBE (AP) – 14 hours ago
ATLANTA — The last time the government embarked on a major vaccine campaign against a new swine flu, thousands filed claims contending they suffered side effects from the shots. This time, the government has already taken steps to head that off.

Vaccine makers and federal officials will be immune from lawsuits that result from any new swine flu vaccine, under a document signed by Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius, government health officials said Friday.

Since the 1980s, the government has protected vaccine makers against lawsuits over the use of childhood vaccines. Instead, a federal court handles claims and decides who will be paid from a special fund.
The document signed by Sebelius last month grants immunity to those making a swine flu vaccine, under the provisions of a 2006 law for public health emergencies. It allows for a compensation fund, if needed.

The government takes such steps to encourage drug companies to make vaccines, and it's worked. Federal officials have contracted with five manufacturers to make a swine flu vaccine. First identified in April, swine flu has so far caused about 263 deaths, according to numbers released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Friday...







Had a punch the wall moment when I read this (which, is really NOT me at all).. unfucking believable.. they're talking about making this vaccine mandatory, the safeness will not be adequately tested, and oh, if anything that goes wrong they can't be held accountable. then they give some bullshyt excuse that, 'oh we have to give them immunity as an incentive to even make any vaccines'.. fuckin' bull.

In a true free market the companies will still line up to make the vaccine purely for the profit of it, fuck, Obama recently just spent another 1.8 BILLION to order more of these vaccines, the only US based pharma company working on a h1n1 vaccine already stopped taking orders because of the high demand!..

you give them immunity for any side effects as well?! That right there is the BREEDING GROUND for corruption. Not only will there not be that much time for vigorous safety testing on such a vaccine to begin with, THERE WILL BE NO INCENTIVE to make sure said vaccine is safe. Now if those fuckers can be sued and held liable for deaths and side effects, you're damn skippy they're going to try and actually make something relatively safe..

I won't let them near me or my children with the 'normal vaccines'.. so for me personally I wouldn't let them near me with this swine flu vaccine.. but seriously, this is fucked up.. and should make anyone raise an eyebrow. The audacity of these people is ridiculous!

Add insult to injury, one of the companies working on these vaccines is Baxter.. which some of you may remember shipped out vaccines to Africa that had live HIV viruses in them. When the company was 'made aware of the contamination' THEY WILLINGLY CONTINUED TO SHIP THEM OUT INFECTING THOUSANDS. But yeah.. let's give them immunity.. we have to or they won't make any new vaccines...

it's not the first time the government and their corporate slave-masters have pulled some malarkey like this. The bottom line that people need to wake up to is that THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU, US, or ANYONE outside of their political circle-jerk.

I'm with you ^^. This makes me feel sick, betrayed, powerless, and uncared for. Is this by the people, for the people? I think not.

silentzombie said:

it's not the first time the government and their corporate slave-masters have pulled some malarkey like this. The bottom line that people need to wake up to is that THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU, US, or ANYONE outside of their political circle-jerk.

I'm with you ^^. This makes me feel sick, betrayed, powerless, and uncared for. Is this by the people, for the people? I think not.

Click to expand...

FARFARFAR from the first time..

+1 on everything else..

I know im in good hands if the government is handling it. im not worried ONE BIT

The Children WILL BE FIRST IN LINE!!!!!!!!!!!

TreesOfLife said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHWkGrBagDc&eurl=http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=Emergency%20Containment%20Areas&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn&feature=player_embedded

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article6675560.ece

http://thestar.com.my/health/story.asp?file=/2009/7/12/health/4280340&sec=health

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/06/30/a_health_emergency_awaits/

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/letters/articles/2009/07/03/containing_the_next_pandemic/

http://www.gmanews.tv/story/166354/Legislators-push-for-health-emergency-as-A(H1N1)-cases-climb-to-1709


http://www.yourcanterbury.co.uk/kent-news/Another-school-confirms-Swine-Flu-newsinkent26177.aspx

http://www.nation.co.ke/News/-/1056/617586/-/ukeivm/-/ !!!!!!

http://blogs.nature.com/news/thegreatbeyond/2009/07/swine_flu_round_up_12.html

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/health_science/daily/20090714_Swine_flu__more_severe_.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/10/health/10flu.html?bl&ex=1247284800&en=7d10bb085fb2733a&ei=5087

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=125&art_id=vn20090714062135863C983824

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/07/10/MNF218M17R.DTL&type=health MASS VACCINATION FOR KIDS IN SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/14/2625907.htm?section=justin

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/audio/2009/jul/15/swine-flu-health-doctors-influenza

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20090715-215513/Swine-flu-now-unstoppable-says-WHO

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-04/28/content_11274205.htm
OIE chief: Current raging flu not transmitted from pig


http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2009/04/30/2009043000765.html
Swine Flu Source Apparently Not Pigs, Says FAO

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/world/view/20090428-201872/Not-exactly-pig-virus-says-intl-body
Not exactly pig virus, says int’l body

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/pig-farmers-angry-about-swine-flu-label/story-e6freuyi-1225704517069
THE top agency for health in farm animals said Mexico's outbreak of deadly influenza was unleashed by a pathogen mixed from bird, human and hog viruses and branded the term "swine flu" as wrong and harmful to pig farmers

Click to expand...

TreesOfLife said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGCMWioE9SI&eurl=http://www.youtube.com/v/LGCMWioE9SI&feature=player_embedded

http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17044769/Evidence-of-the-Use-of-Pandemic-Flu-to-Depopulate-USA

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17044758/Criminal-Charges-Swine-Flu-Edits-v21

http://www.youtube.com/v/PhGoubc2ygg part 1

http://www.youtube.com/v/FcwNp2ejJLk part 2

http://www.youtube.com/v/nVc2vtWgAus part 3

http://www.youtube.com/v/cXi1EFSUIiU part 4

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/camps.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeKgv5wRaE4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB1GVz46Few

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLQwYpCMUiA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBT8c3rQMuA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kqTS0iXCDI

Click to expand...

My fiance' is a pharmacist and schooled me on some of these things, so thought I may shed a bit of light on why it may be happening. Not that it is the case, and there is not corruption, but why the stopping of lawsuits.

We have turned into a lawsuit crazy country that is panic ridden and ill informed. The fact that the news jumped on the couple dozen deaths and caused a huge panic when thousands of people die from the regular flu created the demand for the vaccines. But it was something that wasn't needed in the volume it is in.

If they decided to make all these vaccines and allow the public to get them (the pharmacy she works at got a couple hundred calls looking for it right when it started) people would be taking them right and left. And vaccines are just small amounts of the flu to allow the body to build up immunities. If you give it to a large enough group of people, some will get sick (from already having weak immune system) and of those some of them may die.

This would then lead to a ton of lawsuits that may not be actually legit.


If you look at the vaccines that people think lead to Autism, there is no real science behind it. All the major studies (the best being in the nations that have socialized medical system and can track huge numbers of people aka: everyone) show that no direct link is there, but it doesn't stop the lawsuits from forming.


So either they don't make the vaccines due to the lack of science saying that the swine flu is a real danger in large enough quantities to make the public safe if it is as bad as a few people think it can get, or they take safeguards to make sure that people who get sick from them (just like a regular flu shot) won't bankrupt them.

So how should the government move forward with that. It is a tough call, allow the greedy big pharm companies to not be accountable, or allow the ill informed to clog the system with faulty lawsuits that will waste more time and money?

One leaves us with less vaccines than the worst epidemic could offer making everyone think the government let them get sick and die, or follow the historical science that says the vaccine won't be at fault for the deaths but the weak immune system of the people that received them.

A little follow-up

HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius announced today that the department will commit $884 million to purchase additional supplies of two key ingredients for potential H1N1 vaccine to further prepare the nation for a potential resurgence of the 2009 H1N1 virus.
“We recognize that preparedness is shared responsibility between federal, tribal, state, local governments, private organizations and individuals. We are doing our part to be as prepared as possible for the impact that this infectious disease could have on our country,” Secretary Sebelius said. “Vaccines may serve an important role in that preparedness. The action we are taking today will provide flexibility in a future immunization program, if a program is recommended.”

Click to expand...

She never said anything about using them, but being prepared to have them incase they are needed. It doesn't even say they are going to be fully made, but the materials on the ready incase they are needed.

I really don't want to get into a vaccine debate, but I would like to point out a few things quickly to hopefully spur some self directed inquiry into the issue. Please do not take my word for it, look it up yourself.

Fact 1. Vaccines are not just 'small amounts of the flu'. There are many other ingredients as well. (For example, different engineered chemicals to act as preservatives)

Fact2. Vaccines are particularly targeted at those with weaker immune systems. Namely the elderly and children. To say that negative side effects mainly only happen to those with weaker immune systems is in of itself is barbaric.

Fact3. Studies debunking the link between autism and vaccines coincidentally do not study the vaccines using mercury as the preservative. (coincidently, most of the lawsuits filled are over those vaccines WITH mercury used as the preservative. I would not expect the studies to then show any relevant proof in relation to said lawsuits.)

Fact4. Most of the side effects and deaths related to vaccine use do not mimic effects of the disease/virus itself.

Fact5. There has never, I repeat never been a single double-blind study using vaccines. Never, by strict scientific evidence has the use of vaccines ever been proven to be effective. Never.

That update article is pretty irrelevant, that's the latest purchase the administration has in the works. A simple google news search would show you that yes, the vaccines are in production. The first usable batches will be here this Oct. And that they are suggesting mandatory vaccine campaigns starting this fall starting with school children and health care workers. Most articles also stating that they anticipate the children will be needing two separate doses of said vaccine.

lol.. it's funny how lots of text scares stoners away from threads. lol.

HotNSexyMILF said:

lol.. it's funny how lots of text scares stoners away from threads. lol.

Click to expand...

Didn't you know reading is for al qaeda.

damn info terrorists. lol

jfgordon1 said:

I know im in good hands if the government is handling it. im not worried ONE BIT

Click to expand...

lmao, yeah man dont worry about it! the government will take care of you .... not!

lol.. it's funny how lots of text scares stoners away from threads. lol.

Click to expand...

^^ Nah I just logged for the night after I gave you some +Rep and said I was going to talk to my gf for the information since this is her field of study. She is still sleeping though so I need more time. I am not sure which countries did the studies, but it was a huge fact gathering they had the last x amount of years of data for everyone of their citizens to use as a database to find links.

The first two points you had I could talk about though it was the next three that I am unsure of.

1. You are right on the money,

If you look at the vaccines that people think lead to Autism, there is no real science behind it. All the major studies (the best being in the nations that have socialized medical system and can track huge numbers of people aka: everyone) show that no direct link is there, but it doesn't stop the lawsuits from forming.

Click to expand...

I had just brought that up as a little backround of the science not being there, but still causing panic. So we agree with number 3, but I don't know that one for sure. More science is needed to do this. And you would think that with the money wasted on the lawsuits it would be priority one to do the science and figure this out. The only real science done is the years it takes to get drugs approved.

2. It may be barbaric, I don't think it is wrong. Weak immune system could be someone that has a disease like aids, or someone just getting over a nasty illness, malnurished, young, old, ect.

That update article is pretty irrelevant, that's the latest purchase the administration has in the works. A simple google news search would show you that yes, the vaccines are in production. The first usable batches will be here this Oct. And that they are suggesting mandatory vaccine campaigns starting this fall starting with school children and health care workers. Most articles also stating that they anticipate the children will be needing two separate doses of said vaccine.

Click to expand...

I did a quick look and aside from a couple newspaper articles (Washington post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/05/AR2009050503378.html) that had used a ton of inference to spice up the article, and another website that used a passage of the Patriot act http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/568/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=27275 ,

I didn't see anyone from Obama's campaign talking about mandatory injections. I am sure that there are a lot of different ideas that are being tossed around, but aside from the getting the shots ready if needed nothing else.

I think that it good that you are out there and concerned about these issues. We need to make sure that people are out there watching out for eachother!

And as soon as my gf wakes up I'll have her read over this and post the corrections to the mistakes I have most likely made!

[youtube]c0LEkNLxk5A[/youtube]
[youtube]0NwYjOh6zcc[/youtube]
[youtube]Kl-MKW6TzqI[/youtube]
[youtube]6EjAP5Qajw4[/youtube] It's voluntary folks...no pressure.Total propaganda...

Watch it.
Research it.
Or if all else fails the Government loves you!!!

Haimmal, my friend. I did see the +rep, and thank you. My comment was not directed at you personally, I am sorry if you took it as that way. It's just in my experience that when a thread, no matter how important the topic may be, the thread usually dies simply because there is a lot of text. LOL. Stoners click, see a bulk of text, then leave. LOL. Ask Vi..

I'm glad that my words have spurred you to look further into the matter, I hope it encourages others to do the same. I'm not one for an argument back and forth though. I'd love to hear more of you or your fiance's opinions around the matter, as well as anyone else's- as it may cause me to find or look at information I am currently unaware of.

Peace and love man.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/may/23/aids.suzannegoldenberg

Bayer division 'knowingly sold' HIV-infected protein

A division of the German pharmaceutical company Bayer knowingly sold blood-clotting agents infected with HIV to Asia and Latin America months after withdrawing them from Europe and the US, an American newspaper claimed yesterday. Cutter Biological continued to dump stocks of the factor VIII blood-clotting agent for haemophiliacs on poor countries for nearly a year after introducing a safer alternative, the report in the New York Times said.
It happened in the early 80s, after the Centres for Disease Control in Atlanta, Georgia, reported in July 1982 that haemophiliacs were becoming ill from blood products.
Up to that time factor VIII, produced from the plasma of about 10,000 donors, was not screened for HIV, and it became a leading killer of haemophiliacs in the early years of Aids.
Yesterday Bayer, which has paid out $600m (£375m) to settle lawsuits brought by thousands of American haemophiliacs, insisted it had "always behaved responsibly, ethically, and humanely".

I will say some vaccines work whether fully tested or not.

Polio comes to mind.

And small pox, at least here anyway.

Ok so I tried to get my gf to read this and she basically told me that reading posts about stuff she has to explain to people all day at work is not her idea of a good time..... But she did let me have some nuggets.

The way vaccines work is they are inert forms of the virus (dead). And when injected they cannot turn into a live form of it, but your body still treats it like it is live creating the anti-bodies that will help fight it off if you contract it.

And why people get sick from them is that if their body is already weak from w/e reason they can more easily get another illness due to overtaxing the immune system. And especially when you consider that flu shots are normally given during times of the year when people are getting sick it is more likely to contract something.

The country was a scandinavian country possible findland where they did a nationwide reasearch project about the links and found that no statistical significance of the two developed.

And that over the last 20-30 years the way we classify the mental illnesses has grown, meaning there would be more people found with these diseases, plus people demanding that their children are dislexic and everything else. Which was interesting, when she explained the actual reason for a most ADHD and dislexia, most 'social disorders'.

"Its thought that improper pruning of the brain, during childhood developement you create new nerual connections, and at some point the body is supposed to prune back those connection (eliminate the excess connection) but in children with ADHD it doesn't happen so they have excess nerual stimulation since they have more nerual connections." Direct quote from her before she left.

My buddy that has a Masters in Keneisianology was over talking about it as well saying that they are also looking into the possibility that many children today don't have the same mental stimulation today that we did 20-30 years ago due to being glued to the TV and video games so the synaps don't ever fully form leaving not much to be pruned back during adulthood (funny thinking about the whole cant teach old dogs new tricks analogy actually has something, but that isnt what he said it just popped into my head).

So anyway, fun talk.

As far as those videos saying that all these stats have to point to the vaccines, they never really leave the realm of inferance. Science is and will continue to work on these problems, but as we don't fully understand the brain yet it is hard to just say these vaccines that save millions of people every year are the cause.

The problem with taking inference and running too far with it is similar to my first experiences with a bong. I always fel great with joints, never had a headache, but when I switched to a bong I started to get massive headaches. Thinking one had to do with the other I stopped using it for a long time.

But due to all the research I found on this site, I now know that it wasn't the bong, it was the fact that I had a butane lighter and was inhailing those fumes the entire time leading to the headaches.

Even though the evidence can point to one thing that has changed (bong for me, mercury for the vaccines) it doesn't mean that it is the reason that the situation is arising (headaches with a bong, and Autism with vaccines).


Anyway sorry I thought I would share! And sorry I thought you had meant me running away from the thread, I am just so used to being attacked on political websites that it was a natural responce for me.