VAX or FIRED

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canndo said:
Greed? No, it was all about taxation.

The founders were all rich. Some more than others. High moral ideology might have been a convenient adjunct but the stated purpose (all that really counts) was taxes. Unlikely they would have formed a new country over anything else, just not immediate or weighty enough.
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I think you're looking back from a position of modern comfort and doing so with unrealistic expectations. Life was hard in the 1600's-1700's. Everyone had ten kids just to make sure they ended up with two that'd live long enough to give them grandkids. Most people worked jobs that directly supported their life. People died just from seeing the dentist. Oppressive taxation was much more serious.
 
mooray said:
I think you're looking back from a position of modern comfort and doing so with unrealistic expectations. Life was hard in the 1600's-1700's. Everyone had ten kids just to make sure they ended up with two that'd live long enough to give them grandkids. Most people worked jobs that directly supported their life. People died just from seeing the dentist. Oppressive taxation was much more serious.
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I never said it wasn't serious. But I said other things were considered less so.

The people that worked jobs that directly supported their lives were not particularly interested in independence especially early on, before the war.
 
Fogdog said:
so, why are you talking about a dim past that is hardly recognizable to modern US?
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Same answer, a judiciary that refuses to view our modern world as requiring different viewpoints is interpreting our laws as though we were still living back then.
 
canndo said:
I never said it wasn't serious. But I said other things were considered less so.

The people that worked jobs that directly supported their lives were not particularly interested in independence especially early on, before the war.
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Most people aren't interested in war, which is what independence translated to, especially on the front end. Only when everyday life becomes nearly impossible does the average person pick up a gun. It's part of why I hate our centralized agriculture infrastructure. If you want to see people do some really messed up shit en masse, starve them.
 
canndo said:
Yeah, a group of people worked in collaboration in order to defend individual rights by asserting that the collective should be able to govern...that collective.

They had a big problem with an individual who asserted his "rights" over the colonies.

So...sure, we were founded on the principle of individualism but not really
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Read the bill of rights. It's all individual rights. No mention of a collective having any.
 
mooray said:
Most people aren't interested in war, which is what independence translated to, especially on the front end. Only when everyday life becomes nearly impossible does the average person pick up a gun. It's part of why I hate our centralized agriculture infrastructure. If you want to see people do some really messed up shit en masse, starve them.
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Unless they get indoctrinated.
 
Hiddengems said:
Read the bill of rights. It's all individual rights. No mention of a collective having any.
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And go back and see what government responsibilities are. Individuals do not need laws if your closest neighbor is two day's horse ride from you. The closer you cram people together the more laws needed. But at the time State laws were left to take care of the local stuff as most people did not travel more than 40 miles from their homestead. Just look at criminals racing to get over the State line in early automotive history. As criminals became more mobile and could use the laws that were adequate at a time, to use them to escape the law then a more the laws changed to take into account the change in technology. Why do we have things like drivers licences? Because individual responsibility did not cut it and society needed to be protected.
 
canndo said:
Same answer, a judiciary that refuses to view our modern world as requiring different viewpoints is interpreting our laws as though we were still living back then.
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Where is that happening? There has been more than 200 years of judicial rulings that are as relevant or more so than the Constitution, which was deliberately written vague. The Tea Partiers were fools and tools of Republican elite they are a joke.
 
Hiddengems said:
Read the bill of rights. It's all individual rights. No mention of a collective having any.
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No? The right to peaceably assemble?

States rights? Militia? Corporations are people my friend.

You might consider reading the entire document and slow down on the bill of rights being your only argument. As I posted before, the constitution includes "GENERAL" welfare. But you failed to respond to that post.
 
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mooray said:
Most people aren't interested in war, which is what independence translated to, especially on the front end. Only when everyday life becomes nearly impossible does the average person pick up a gun. . . . . . .
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We had some pretty effective pamphleteers on our side. It's Common Sense that they sold war back then just like today.
 
A trip to hear folks speak about the past as if they know.

A bigger trip to hear amerikans speak of their past as if there was some kinda virtue or morality.

Revisionist history is all you know. Your entire existence is anti-life which is why you celebrate your anti-life heroes. Cannot tell a lie. The man who moved the same people from Pa. to Va. every year to insure the captivity of those people. The man who had a woman chased across the continent ( helluva word, I was taught that europe was a continent, it is not ) only to fail. Btw he was president at the time of the above fuckeries. Who paid for the fuckery?

The only reason we don't speak German at 7/11 is amerika is #1 and we speak merikan. Or the Russians ended the threat. Ever trip on bombs in Japan but not Germany or Italy. Bombs!
I mean dude studied amerika as a blueprint and was widely celebrated in the usa. Wasn't he man of the year twice?

Accountability for your history is more pressing than covid.

Please enjoy the sacrament and vibe on what was said b4 responding.

Remember: A hit dog hollers
 
Livingblacksoil said:
A trip to hear folks speak about the past as if they know.

A bigger trip to hear amerikans speak of their past as if there was some kinda virtue or morality.

Revisionist history is all you know. Your entire existence is anti-life which is why you celebrate your anti-life heroes. Cannot tell a lie. The man who moved the same people from Pa. to Va. every year to insure the captivity of those people. The man who had a woman chased across the continent ( helluva word, I was taught that europe was a continent, it is not ) only to fail. Btw he was president at the time of the above fuckeries. Who paid for the fuckery?

The only reason we don't speak German at 7/11 is amerika is #1 and we speak merikan. Or the Russians ended the threat. Ever trip on bombs in Japan but not Germany or Italy. Bombs!
I mean dude studied amerika as a blueprint and was widely celebrated in the usa. Wasn't he man of the year twice?

Accountability for your history is more pressing than covid.

Please enjoy the sacrament and vibe on what was said b4 responding.

Remember: A hit dog hollers
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Wait. Europe isn’t a continent?
 
Grandpapy said:
Homeschooling can be dangerous.
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But, but, I don’t want my kids learning that CRT nonsense in public school. I don’t actually know what CRT means but people are saying it’s bad and homeschooling is better. Plus I got fired for refusing to wear a muzzle at work so I have time to homeschool now. I will definitely teach my kids that America is a continent, actually a Christian Continent and that Europe is bad because they don’t speak English there.
 
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