veganics,bat guano &health

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blueJ

Active Member
i've been using the azos now in cloning, and have noticed a difference, not so much in rooting time, but once rooting starts they just go crazy, a plethora of roots coming out everywhere.

I soak my medium, rapid rooters or cubes or whatever on hand, in azos/water mixture and then do what i normally do.
 
mipainpatient

mipainpatient

Active Member
Nice, even if the buggers don't take, their bodies alone provide the plant hormones so its a win/win as long as you dose the medium at a high enough rate. If you could correlate a strain/pheno that does better than others with the azos then maybe yea look for nodules or have someone do a root swab and culture up & gram stain, if they are even identifiable/culturable in such a fashion....guess I'll have to look into that. I think the rooters I saw recently were already inoc'd but I'll have to do an azos vs no azos cloning run to see if I can establish results like yours. Would be a cool development. Do you also use cloning solutions or is the azos kind of a substitute for you?
 
+ WitchDoctor +

+ WitchDoctor +

Well-Known Member
blueJ said:
i've been using the azos now in cloning, and have noticed a difference, not so much in rooting time, but once rooting starts they just go crazy, a plethora of roots coming out everywhere.

I soak my medium, rapid rooters or cubes or whatever on hand, in azos/water mixture and then do what i normally do.
Click to expand...
I was gonna try that out too. I ran out of the free Clonex places kept sending me and bought some Thrive Alive and that shit's had the roots looking great on my cuttings, I was really surprised.
 
Wolverine97

Wolverine97

Well-Known Member
mipainpatient said:
Nice, even if the buggers don't take, their bodies alone provide the plant hormones so its a win/win as long as you dose the medium at a high enough rate. If you could correlate a strain/pheno that does better than others with the azos then maybe yea look for nodules or have someone do a root swab and culture up & gram stain, if they are even identifiable/culturable in such a fashion....guess I'll have to look into that. I think the rooters I saw recently were already inoc'd but I'll have to do an azos vs no azos cloning run to see if I can establish results like yours. Would be a cool development. Do you also use cloning solutions or is the azos kind of a substitute for you?
Click to expand...
For cloning, I've only used it in Rapid Rooters but it was as a substitute to my usual Clonex solution. I still used the gel as per usual, but other than that just the Azos. I have two friends who are both excellent growers that use it exclusively to clone with, and IIRC one said it cuts apprx two days off his rooting time, the other said time was about the same but root quantity and quality were far better. I didn't realize there was a growth hormone (or an analog) present with this bacteria, you think that's why the results with cloning?
 
mipainpatient

mipainpatient

Active Member
Yea so azos don't just fix N they synthesize what turn out to be PGRs (plant growth regulators-aka plant hormones) and may actually secrete them in proximity to root growths which are exchanging nutrients with them. Or at least thats how my pitiful understanding of the rhizosphere paints it---the same interaction, wherein the plant literally secretes glucose from the roots and fungal mycelia exchange trace micro/macronutrients for the glucose is known to exist between plants and fungi, why not bacteria? But like I was getting at earlier, there should be cultivar/azos strain selectivity at work too, a study with like 10 strawberry cultivars and 6 azos strains found that only 3 of the cultivars were able to be colonized by 2 of the azos strains. This means that there is a chance azos are applied with reduced benefit---I'm suggesting that they probably still synthesize the PGRs regardless of colonization if they have glucose, and thus you are probably getting the extra minute PGR dose, but if you luck out and get colonization of the root mass, you should really have a noticeable boost in the success rate of that cultivar---biomass, yield, canopy thickness, leaf size, I mean it should really stand out, and you could test for the azos as the effector by running side by side inoc'd vs not to show that the inoc'd ones outpace the not once you've confirmed the azos strain/cultivar combination etc. It just seemed from the research with strawberries that it is really likely that you won't get a match, so that much more important to know for sure if you come across it....Kind of like phenoing out all of your females(and even males too if you are serious about your gene pool) even if you don't like the structure---just to see what effect/flavor ends up manifesting. The benefits seen in the strawberries if memory serves were like 10-25% increases in biomass/fruit yield---obviously only for the cultivars where colonization was successful.
Side note, there are plenty of sources for PGRs in the veganic/organic/natural amendment realm. I use coconut, corn, and willow, in different forms and applications but my goal is to have the plants benefit from the PGRs present. Happy to expound on this another time, tired and fading fast now tho, peace.
MPP
edit:
was just looking at the wiki page for indole butryic acid (clonex active PGR), same PGR in the corn/willow sources so go figure, relevance abound
 
Wolverine97

Wolverine97

Well-Known Member
mipainpatient said:
Yea so azos don't just fix N they synthesize what turn out to be PGRs (plant growth regulators-aka plant hormones) and may actually secrete them in proximity to root growths which are exchanging nutrients with them. Or at least thats how my pitiful understanding of the rhizosphere paints it---the same interaction, wherein the plant literally secretes glucose from the roots and fungal mycelia exchange trace micro/macronutrients for the glucose is known to exist between plants and fungi, why not bacteria? But like I was getting at earlier, there should be cultivar/azos strain selectivity at work too, a study with like 10 strawberry cultivars and 6 azos strains found that only 3 of the cultivars were able to be colonized by 2 of the azos strains. This means that there is a chance azos are applied with reduced benefit---I'm suggesting that they probably still synthesize the PGRs regardless of colonization if they have glucose, and thus you are probably getting the extra minute PGR dose, but if you luck out and get colonization of the root mass, you should really have a noticeable boost in the success rate of that cultivar---biomass, yield, canopy thickness, leaf size, I mean it should really stand out, and you could test for the azos as the effector by running side by side inoc'd vs not to show that the inoc'd ones outpace the not once you've confirmed the azos strain/cultivar combination etc. It just seemed from the research with strawberries that it is really likely that you won't get a match, so that much more important to know for sure if you come across it....Kind of like phenoing out all of your females(and even males too if you are serious about your gene pool) even if you don't like the structure---just to see what effect/flavor ends up manifesting. The benefits seen in the strawberries if memory serves were like 10-25% increases in biomass/fruit yield---obviously only for the cultivars where colonization was successful.
Side note, there are plenty of sources for PGRs in the veganic/organic/natural amendment realm. I use coconut, corn, and willow, in different forms and applications but my goal is to have the plants benefit from the PGRs present. Happy to expound on this another time, tired and fading fast now tho, peace.
MPP
edit:
was just looking at the wiki page for indole butryic acid (clonex active PGR), same PGR in the corn/willow sources so go figure, relevance abound
Click to expand...
Good stuff man, I have more experimentation to do... I've been very skeptical as to whether there is any actual colonization going on myself, as I also had the understanding that a symbiotic relationship is by no means a given for all cultivars. I always think of the fact that many legumes get their N from the air, but corn for instance cannot. Having said that, I do see some effect in rooting and the veg cycle. Stay tuned...
 
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