turnip brain
Active Member
Bently warns of trouble above 86F: http://www.redwormcomposting.com/worm-composting/importance-of-monitoring-temperature/
Vermicomposters Unite! Official Worm Farmers Thread
- Thread starter Rising Moon
- Start date
turnip brain
Active Member
And another source says same:
http://red-worms-composting-bin.weebly.com/
BTW, just doing the google search to find these.
http://red-worms-composting-bin.weebly.com/
BTW, just doing the google search to find these.
Crab Pot
Well-Known Member
turnip- Seems to me that since spinosad is indicated to kill/harm certain insects, including fungus gnats and their larva (?) that it's going to poison/kill/damage the microbes?? But... yes... that is my opinion.
The point of my previous post was that, if the conditions are balanced in your worm bin you're not going to have gnats.. therefore... I personally don't see an indication for using spinosad do you?
The point of my previous post was that, if the conditions are balanced in your worm bin you're not going to have gnats.. therefore... I personally don't see an indication for using spinosad do you?
turnip brain
Active Member
The info I have found is that spinosad only targets certain groups of insects through their nervous system. (Unfortunately this includes hymenoptera, so not good for declining bee populations, but my use is not in their environment). I have found specific references that it does not harm worms. I have searched and found nothing indicating it will harm microbes or otherwise harm soil. Spinosad has tested as not harmful to mammals at high levels of exposure and is approved for use on organic fruits and vegetables right up to the point of harvest. I am not worried about its toxicity and I want to get rid of these friggin gnats now infesting all our houseplants, and the worm bin.
If there are any concerns about Spinosad that I don't know that are factual, I want to know.
Most thorough single reference I know of: http://www.lbamspray.com/Reports/spinosad_final.pdf
From this:
"Effects of spinosad on earthworms and soil microorganisms have been performed in the laboratory. Results indicated that application rates of 540 g/ha should not cause significant effect on soil microflora respirations. Both
spinosad and the Tracer formulation demonstrated safety for earthworms."
And it would seem that introduced to microbial rich soil, Spinosad breaks down rather quickly:
"spinosyns A and D both are highly persistent, but only when applied to pre-sterilized soils. Otherwise, the half-life of 9-17 days presents an acceptable persistence profile. Theoretically, if spinosyns A and D are used in organic production systems, the soils would not be pre-sterilized and thus would contain sufficient microbial activity to break down the pesticide quickly."
Then the conclusion does state "certain uses might be harmful to beneficial organisms" but there is nothing factual in the paper to back this up. Once again, seems just a supposition.
In an ideal word, sure, I'd rather not have to control the gnats at all, but I do have them. They are a serious nuisance at this point.
has
If there are any concerns about Spinosad that I don't know that are factual, I want to know.
Most thorough single reference I know of: http://www.lbamspray.com/Reports/spinosad_final.pdf
From this:
"Effects of spinosad on earthworms and soil microorganisms have been performed in the laboratory. Results indicated that application rates of 540 g/ha should not cause significant effect on soil microflora respirations. Both
spinosad and the Tracer formulation demonstrated safety for earthworms."
And it would seem that introduced to microbial rich soil, Spinosad breaks down rather quickly:
"spinosyns A and D both are highly persistent, but only when applied to pre-sterilized soils. Otherwise, the half-life of 9-17 days presents an acceptable persistence profile. Theoretically, if spinosyns A and D are used in organic production systems, the soils would not be pre-sterilized and thus would contain sufficient microbial activity to break down the pesticide quickly."
Then the conclusion does state "certain uses might be harmful to beneficial organisms" but there is nothing factual in the paper to back this up. Once again, seems just a supposition.
In an ideal word, sure, I'd rather not have to control the gnats at all, but I do have them. They are a serious nuisance at this point.
has
Crab Pot
Well-Known Member
Hyroot- Keep the worms out of the direct sun. You might even try insulating them with a blanket or something to keep the heat off of them for the time your gone. Grap a bottle of cold water and put it next to them to keep the temperature around them cooler. If they get too hot the worms sweat and loose moisture.
hyroot
Well-Known Member
I'm home worms are still kickin. I'm making a ghetto bin. 30gal sterilite totes are $8 each at home deps. Left my drill at a homies. So using my crkt pazoda knife and a screw driver wooty woot.
was back in town for the day and picked up some bu's blend compost from oc farm supply. They recently started carrying all malibu products. Never tried the bu's blend. But cann loves it.
edit:
I think some of them died. They are not moving at all. They were in a breathable bag that held moisture and the bag was in Chinese food to go box. There was plenty of moisture in the bag. Plus a little castings. The date written on the box was 5 days ago. I don't think they were in that box for that long. I don't know. Maybe I should order vermipods next time. Or order worms from uncle jims.
was back in town for the day and picked up some bu's blend compost from oc farm supply. They recently started carrying all malibu products. Never tried the bu's blend. But cann loves it.
edit:
I think some of them died. They are not moving at all. They were in a breathable bag that held moisture and the bag was in Chinese food to go box. There was plenty of moisture in the bag. Plus a little castings. The date written on the box was 5 days ago. I don't think they were in that box for that long. I don't know. Maybe I should order vermipods next time. Or order worms from uncle jims.
SpicySativa
Well-Known Member
Hyroot - Stop by your local fishing tackle shop. The "Red Worms" they sell as bait are the same eisenia fetida that you want in your worm bin. At about $2.00 for 50 worms, you can get a bin started for about $10. They reproduce QUICKLY when the conditions are right. I started mine up this way and now have two bins cranking out castings. Next harvest I'll split it to 3 bins.
SpicySativa
Well-Known Member
A quick comment on pesticide use in the worm bin... Clearly the fungus gnats love the conditions you are providing them. If you don't change the conditions, they WILL come back. Not only that, the ones that survive the Spinosad assault will be the strong ones, which will then reproduce a pile of strong offspring.
Whether you chose to dose your bin with pesticides or not, you MUST address the conditions that are inviting pests in the first place.
Whether you chose to dose your bin with pesticides or not, you MUST address the conditions that are inviting pests in the first place.
turnip brain
Active Member
I don't deny that at all. Problem is, I still don't know in what way the current conditions are conducive to gnat infestation. So not knowing what MUST be addressed, does not solve any problem. There are as many opinions as people who post in response to these things, there are many people with worms who feed them differently, use different bedding, different containers, etc etc that there are NO clear answers, just a bunch of well meaning folks who do things differently with varying degrees of success. As a result, what I end up doing remains experimental.
Anyway, I did a moderate drench with BT rather than just adding granules to the bin, and sprayed top bedding with spinosad a few days ago. Today there are only several gnats active when I open the top.
hyroot
Well-Known Member
I tried that route. The only tackle place I could find that sold red wigglers is in Devore. That's so far away in the wrong direction too. At least a 2 -3 hour drive. Other places carry other worms. But no red worms. I paid $14 for a pound of worms. My other bin . I pulled then all out of my avocado planter before I moved. I left it behind. They probably got in the planter from eggs in store bought castings.
hyroot
Well-Known Member
Correct me if I'm wrong. But if your bin gets a little out of wack. Too much food or decaying matter... Won't there be an abundance of predatory mites. That happened with my first bin. There were millions of them. Eventually they died off. Didn't bothor the worms. The predatory mites will eat the gnats and larva given time. That's how I solved my gnat problem in my pots in the flower room years ago. Topdressed with compost that had predatory mites. Adult flyers only live for a week or so.
turnip brain
Active Member
I had major mite infestation on a previous bin which failed and perished. I do not think they were "predatory" however. I learned that time to not overfeed. This bin has no such mite problem.
Rrog
Well-Known Member
Most pests require a system to control, not a single item. One item is so-so, but hit them from multiple sides and you're successful.
BTI is lab-proven to do its thing, assuming the pest is matched to the BTI. Fungus gnat larvae will be affected by BTI. Other larvae are left unaffected, like Root Aphids.
BTI is lab-proven to do its thing, assuming the pest is matched to the BTI. Fungus gnat larvae will be affected by BTI. Other larvae are left unaffected, like Root Aphids.
turnip brain
Active Member
I've followed up and been ;looking up most of the suggestions. Neem and nematodes seem like good bets. Already supplement the worms with kelp, rock dust, and some other compost. The bin and the worms are mostly pretty darn healthy overall. That's not an issue.