Very strange electrical problem when running 400w HPS

Ever since I got my light, I've been having a strange problem. No matter where in the house I plug the light, whenever it is on, the touchpad on my laptop barely works. Everything else is fine, it's only the touchpad. I know this sounds weird but it's completely consistent. The second the light comes on every day, the problem starts. The second it goes off, the touchpad works fine again. Also, it only happens when my computer is plugged in (but it doesn't matter where in the house it's plugged in). Run on batteries, no problems. My other computer doesn't have this problem.

This is the only strange thing happening with the light. If it wasn't for this I would never suspect any kind of issue.

My house is old as shit, and does not have a ground wire in the electrical system. Since my water pipe enters the house in the basement right under the grow room, I tried running a ground (14ga) to just the outlet the light is on. I also switched the outlet to a gfci. Same problem.

Any ideas what could cause something like this?

psyte said:

Ever since I got my light, I've been having a strange problem. No matter where in the house I plug the light, whenever it is on, the touchpad on my laptop barely works. Everything else is fine, it's only the touchpad. I know this sounds weird but it's completely consistent. The second the light comes on every day, the problem starts. The second it goes off, the touchpad works fine again. Also, it only happens when my computer is plugged in (but it doesn't matter where in the house it's plugged in). Run on batteries, no problems. My other computer doesn't have this problem.

This is the only strange thing happening with the light. If it wasn't for this I would never suspect any kind of issue.

My house is old as shit, and does not have a ground wire in the electrical system. Since my water pipe enters the house in the basement right under the grow room, I tried running a ground (14ga) to just the outlet the light is on. I also switched the outlet to a gfci. Same problem.

Any ideas what could cause something like this?

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if it is a magnetic ballast the send out a freq that interfere with signals sometimes
i dont think is because of not having a ground

if u notice in pics with a mag ballast grow light u see lines in pic
that the signals sent out

Sorry I should have given more info on the light. It's got an electronic ballast.
This is the light I have: http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=706

your old skool electrical system is compenstaing itself to run the light.

stealing from all other utilization equipment too i imagine..however you only get to SEE it in your touchpad.

no existing grounds in your wiring and a grow op is not a good idea. from an electrical standpoint.

I'm not so sure... 400 watts is really not much power. The rest of my grow room uses that much power, but if I turn off the HPS, there's no issue. Turn off everything but the HPS and the issue is still there. To be ablsolutely sure, I just tried an 1875w hair drier and no problems w/ the touchpad.
I'm not too happy about not having a ground wire in the system either but I'm hoping the ground to the outlet and the gfci at least give me some more protection than just plugging a 3-2 prong adapter in an existing outlet.
I don't know... this is just really strange.

I had a cheap electronic ballast once (used it for target practice), it caused horrible interferance to every TV in the house. I lived in an old farm house at the time, with old wiring like you.

Yeah it's definitely not a top of the line ballast by any means, so that's kind of what I was thinking. I'm glad it's not screwing up the TV at least.
And if it wasn't for the gfci, I could totally accept that it's just interference from the ballast, but it just seems odd to me that an electronic device could somehow feed interference back into the electric system without popping the gfci. But for all I know it's completely possible and that's just not something that sets off a gfci. Anyone know if that could happen?

Yea, i learned from buying a cheapy, high quality dimmable ftw!

hmmmm...That is strange....Probably magnetic interfearance...Its not doing it to the other laptop because its probably a better quality laptop....Ground your house bro... Go to the hardware store pic up yourself 2 galvinized ground rods (about 20 or 30 bucks) and some #6 (for 100 amp panel) or #4 (for 200 amp panel ) ground wire and 2 acorn clamps... . Put one acorn clamp on each ground rod before wacking the rods with a sledge....Now take and drive your ground rods 6 feet apart outside your home close to where your panel box is located. you can pound them in at an angle making it much easier. after driving the into the ground leaving about 3 or 4 inches above ground, dig a shallow trench(just an inch or 2 deep.... Run the ground wire between the 2 rods through the acorn clamps and into the house.. Put the ground wire on the neautral bar in the box.... Maybe you already know how to do this, just trying to help man.... with the rods , wire, and clamps it shouldnt cost you more than 50 bucks.... Better than costing you your family and your house....

Yeah that's absolutely toward the top of the list of things I need to do to this house. I'm putting it off because I don't trust myself to do it right without killing myself and I can't afford to have an electrician do it. I honestly know almost nothing about electrical work and the thought of doing anything on the panel besides turning it off and changing fuses scares the shit out of me. I need to research it more before I decide what to do about all of that.

For now in the grow room, do you think my water pipe grounding on a gfci outlet is doing me any good? If not I at least want to know so I don't get a false sense of security. The outlet is the only thing grounded there and the entire room is running maybe 800w when everything is on.

psyte said:

Yeah that's absolutely toward the top of the list of things I need to do to this house. I'm putting it off because I don't trust myself to do it right without killing myself and I can't afford to have an electrician do it. I honestly know almost nothing about electrical work and the thought of doing anything on the panel besides turning it off and changing fuses scares the shit out of me. I need to research it more before I decide what to do about all of that.

For now in the grow room, do you think my water pipe grounding on a gfci outlet is doing me any good? If not I at least want to know so I don't get a false sense of security. The outlet is the only thing grounded there and the entire room is running maybe 800w when everything is on.

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Its not helping a bit because your water lines arnt grounded either man...sorry...Im a certified electrician, If you can get me a pic of the inside of your panel i will show you exactly where to put the ground wire... The only thing you have to worry about when you pull the main fuses (or breakers) in your panel is the 2 main wires coming into the top....Those are the only wires that are hot after you shut the main....You can touch the inside of the box anywhere but those 2 lines.... when and if you decide to do this let me know...Im here to help...

You have no idea how much I appreciate it. Seriously. Everything I read about this stuff on my own just makes me more confused. I'll go get a pic of the box.
Once I ground the box do I have to run a ground wire to all the outlets in the house? Or is this just basically a way of properly grounding the existing 2 wire system?
Anyhow, hold on I'll get that pic in a few.

Grounding your house with the rods will protect your house from lightning strikes, not preventing it, but providing a direct path to the ground ...The rods are the direct path instead of you and your family...
It would be wise to say your outlets should be grounded with a ground wire... But thats very costly and damn near impossible without demolition.
However there is a cheaper alternative... What you would need to do is see how many outlet circuits are in your home... Then taking each circuit one at a time... trace the wire from the box to the area where it runs upstairs into your hous(im assuming your box is in a basement).. basically what you need to do is find the first outlet thats fed from the panel first and replace the old ungrounded outlet with a gfci outlet... The rest of the outlets will be protected from the gfci...This will only work if there fed off of the bottom of the gfci... If when you go to replace the old outlet with the gfci and there is 4 wires connected to the outlet then your ok...If there is only 2 wires and you look into the back of the box and see wires twisted under wire nuts(pigtailed, parallel), you will need to undo the nut and hook them up directly to the gfci....

Yeah I was worried about having to run another wire to all the outlets. Running it to just one was a nightmare. Gfci sounds like a good idea. The thing is that the wires that come from the box that I am able to follow go immediately to a hub where they then branch out to 5-10 or so other wires which each go to a separate outlet or light socket. And from the switches and outlets I've worked with around the house, it seems like the majority only have a wire running to them but aren't chained to anything else. Only the basement has one wall where a few outlets are connected to each other. Could I splice into the wire right before the hub and add a gfci outlet? Or is that too much for one outlet to handle?

Ok so here's the pics I took of the rat's nest that is my electric system. I tried to show it in the pics, but currently there is a large stranded wire that is grounded to the closest cold water pipe. That wire appears to be connected literally right behind where the main power into the house connects to the box. I could be totally wrong about what I'm seeing, but that looks like it might be an issue.

psyte said:

Yeah I was worried about having to run another wire to all the outlets. Running it to just one was a nightmare. Gfci sounds like a good idea. The thing is that the wires that come from the box that I am able to follow go immediately to a hub where they then branch out to 5-10 or so other wires which each go to a separate outlet or light socket. And from the switches and outlets I've worked with around the house, it seems like the majority only have a wire running to them but aren't chained to anything else. Only the basement has one wall where a few outlets are connected to each other. Could I splice into the wire right before the hub and add a gfci outlet? Or is that too much for one outlet to handle?

Ok so here's the pics I took of the rat's nest that is my electric system. I tried to show it in the pics, but currently there is a large stranded wire that is grounded to the closest cold water pipe. That wire appears to be connected literally right behind where the main power into the house connects to the box. I could be totally wrong about what I'm seeing, but that looks like it might be an issue.

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is that a federal pacific panel?...well known fire hazard....see the screw terminals...how the wire sits between 2 screws..not good...the bare copper conductor in pic 5 is only a bonding jumper..you have gas pipe or copper water pipe that is bonded. what side of the union is the ground clamp on? its a number 4 or 6. its bussed to the aluminum netral conductor on your service entrance cable. which in turn goes out to the meter socket and up to the pole...there are a slew of other violations and fire hazards within your equipment.

a gfci will do nothing for short circut....only ground faults.

Well fuck me. I mean that's good to know so I can do something about it, but fuck that sucks. I need to get this shit fixed but this is obviously way above my head.
Any idea what an electrician would charge to just replace all that shit with something that's actually safe. I doubt I'd want a ground wire run to the outlets cause that's just way too much work and I'm sure would cost a hell of a lot more, just a proper grounding and a panel that isn't intent on burning down my house.

Also, with my original issue, is the interference that ballast is putting into the system harmful or dangerous? I've been thinking of returning that whole light/ballast setup cause it's a pain in the ass for multiple reasons, but if it's doing something harmful it's definitely gotta go.

Thanks again you guys. This is really helpful even if it's kind of overwhelming to find out just how fucked up my house is.

Btw... just checked and it's an Arrow-Hart & Hegeman 60 amp panel.

Looks like RF interference is the cause of the original issue:
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/125462-digital-ballast-rf-interference.html

I could see how that wouldn't trip a gfci. I think I'll start with getting one of the line filters someone recommends in that thread.

ak.fortyseven said:

I had a cheap electronic ballast once (used it for target practice), it caused horrible interferance to every TV in the house. I lived in an old farm house at the time, with old wiring like you.

Click to expand...

Yep, cheapie digi's with little or no RF shielding. You get what you pay for.

Wet

So in case anyone else ever has a similar issue, I just wanted to follow up since I've narrowed down the issue a bit more.

I decided to get rid of my existing ballast/hood setup because of too many issues and frustrations with it. So I got an RMA to return it and am waiting to get my new stuff before returning the old setup so I don't interrupt 12/12. Now when I originally got the setup it came with a stock no name bulb, but I also had ordered a Plantmax bulb (400w) which I decided to use instead since day one. So since I'm returning my setup at this point anyway, I decided to put the stock bulb back in after lights out last night. Well when the light fired up this morning, I noticed the original problem with my laptop touchpad was completely gone.

So either there is an issue with the plantmax bulb or the no name ballast is incompatible with the bulb. I'll try the same plantmax bulb in my new setup once it arrives and I'll see if the Lumatek can handle it better or if the bulb is just crap. I'm hoping it's not the bulb since I ordered another for backup with my new setup.

Weird shit man...