vote NO on legalized and TAXED

UncleBuck · Jul 12, 2010

FootClan said:
I think YOUR crazy for voting yes for somthing that you dont even know what your voting for..........

the irony is that this statement will come back to haunt you in your very next utterance.

FootClan said:
your ready to vote yes but do you even know what your voting yes too....?? like fdd2blk said if your cought with over an ounce once law passes you go to JAIL!! right now im allowed to have 8 ounces in my posession........so for me 1 ounce would be like a step back not forward........why dont poeple see that??

that WOULD be a step backward....IF this voided current medical laws, which it does not. your point is 100% MOOT. you still get to carry eight ounces.

FootClan said:
its good for non medical users i guess

which makes it a HUGE STEP FORWARD in reality, rather than the reality you have created in your head.

FootClan said:
its already legal for me so if everyone else is to dumb to go get there doctors note thats there prob i dont wanna be punished because those poeple rather have it legal and restricked to one ounce verse paying 100 bucks for there card...

what a selfish sentiment. you want any person whatsoever who wants to do nothing more than enjoy a little green herb to not only pay $100 or more, but also to take the time out of their lives to document a medical condition and apply for a card (and then renew every single year). why not just let them smoke the damn herb? oh, i know...because "it's already legal for me"....so selfish.

FootClan said:
and come on have you guys seen the list for qaulifying ailments for medical cannibas its like two pages long pretty much everyone is a canidate for medical cannibas...........

advocating for abuse of the medical marijuana system just makes our community look worse. do you not get that simple concept? some people do not need or want it as medicine, so for them it is technically FRAUD. not the label i want stoners everywhere associated with.

FootClan said:
yes i know it will bring money to Ca but what does it do for ME ME ME ME ME I wanna know whats it do for me i dont care if ca makes more in taxes

no, nothing selfish about this. in fact, this statement gives me the feeling that you really do care about giving everyone who wants it access to this great herb we enjoy, while sending the same message to the rest of the nation :roll:

FootClan said:
so i just wanna know how is will benifit me and for me its already legal so i dont see how it benfits me when i can already carry half a pound around legally........

alright dude, we get it. you are selfish and don't care about other people. not a great quality for a human being to have, but you live your life the way you want and i'll do the same here. if you don't get that the world is round, i am not going to spend all day trying to impart such a lesson.

now, should this bill not pass, imagine what the next day will be like....hannity will gloat on and on about how legal pot is too extreme, even for those crazy california liberals. it reinforces the notion that those already doing time for pot belong there. it'll be another year or two (if not many many more) before anything like this gains momentum enough to get on the ballot again.

i found myself saying 'wow' over and over and over again at the amount of people on a WEED GROWING WEBSITE opposed to giving more people the freedom to GROW WEED.

keep this in mind, those of you voting no: if we chose to take the hard-lined stance that says 'we are not going to support any legislation unless it does EXACTLY what we want it to and/or benefits me in some way'....we never would have had medical. because let's face it, medical is for very very sick people, and none of us here is exactly knocking on heaven's door. but one stepleads to another leads to another, and boom! anyone who has a cramp gets a card.

a no vote here is a slap in the face to anyone who wants cannabis prohibition ended as soon as possible (as well as those currently incarcerated for cannabis)

dtRepeat · Jul 12, 2010

fdd2blk said:
i still can't understand how this would be "it", "the only chance". that's a load of crap with no evidence of it being true. there is no cut off point. no "now or never". we have been fighting for years and will CONTINUE to regardless if this passes or not.

i'm still voting NO.

"bro"?

well you're holding the point that is in not "now or never," and I agree with that, especially how I won't be silenced about this cause myself, but if we say yes to this, and it does get passed, as you're obviously in fear of, wouldn't it be easy just to continue fighting it even after? Padawan is stressing stepping stones here, and I tend to agree with him.

Just placing my input.

blazin256 · Jul 12, 2010

nothing will get california out of the hole its in. anything at this point will just give more control to the government, and put more money in their dirty greasy hands. but maybe this could be a step forward, only time will tell i guess.

FootClan · Jul 12, 2010

UncleBuck said:
the irony is that this statement will come back to haunt you in your very next utterance.

that WOULD be a step backward....IF this voided current medical laws, which it does not. your point is 100% MOOT. you still get to carry eight ounces.

which makes it a HUGE STEP FORWARD in reality, rather than the reality you have created in your head.

what a selfish sentiment. you want any person whatsoever who wants to do nothing more than enjoy a little green herb to not only pay $100 or more, but also to take the time out of their lives to document a medical condition and apply for a card (and then renew every single year). why not just let them smoke the damn herb? oh, i know...because "it's already legal for me"....so selfish.

advocating for abuse of the medical marijuana system just makes our community look worse. do you not get that simple concept? some people do not need or want it as medicine, so for them it is technically FRAUD. not the label i want stoners everywhere associated with.

no, nothing selfish about this. in fact, this statement gives me the feeling that you really do care about giving everyone who wants it access to this great herb we enjoy, while sending the same message to the rest of the nation

alright dude, we get it. you are selfish and don't care about other people. not a great quality for a human being to have, but you live your life the way you want and i'll do the same here. if you don't get that the world is round, i am not going to spend all day trying to impart such a lesson.

now, should this bill not pass, imagine what the next day will be like....hannity will gloat on and on about how legal pot is too extreme, even for those crazy california liberals. it reinforces the notion that those already doing time for pot belong there. it'll be another year or two (if not many many more) before anything like this gains momentum enough to get on the ballot again.

i found myself saying 'wow' over and over and over again at the amount of people on a WEED GROWING WEBSITE opposed to giving more people the freedom to GROW WEED.

keep this in mind, those of you voting no: if we chose to take the hard-lined stance that says 'we are not going to support any legislation unless it does EXACTLY what we want it to and/or benefits me in some way'....we never would have had medical. because let's face it, medical is for very very sick people, and none of us here is exactly knocking on heaven's door. but one stepleads to another leads to another, and boom! anyone who has a cramp gets a card.

a no vote here is a slap in the face to anyone who wants cannabis prohibition ended as soon as possible (as well as those currently incarcerated for cannabis)[/QUOT

Sorry that im not worryed about a goverment that dosnt even provide heath care for even most basic shit.....They say i make to much money working a crap job waiting tables to even qualify for medical benifits...if i had kids and was poor id be rewarded with free health care but since im responsible and dont have kids i cant afford im punished... so ya im SELFESH you really think that extra tax money is going to help me or anyone i know?? How many times have we heard that extra taxes will go to help schools and this and that and yet first thing that gets CUT is SCHOOL funding and sorry if im only worryed about me cause right now my state and gov'nt sure isnt worryed about me at all...... and you really didnt have any facts that would turn me into a YES vote........

"...IF this voided current medical laws, which it does not. your point is 100% MOOT. you still get to carry eight ounces."

So your saying your 100% sure of this statement?? if thats the case where did you read this fact?? id like to see a link so i can share it with others that are looking to find the answer..... PLEASE SHARE THE LINK

potroast · Jul 12, 2010

fdd2blk said:
<snip>

DEA Flouts Mendocino Medical Marijuana Ordinance by Raiding First Grow Permit Applicant

Posted July 10th, 2010 by canorml_admin
COVELO, Cal, Jul 7th 2010: The DEA flouted Mendocino County's newly enacted medical marijuana cultivation ordinance by raiding the first collective that had applied to the sheriff's cultivation permit program.
A multi-agency federal task force descended on the property of Joy Greenfield, 68, the first Mendo patient to pay the $1050 application fee under the ordinance, which allows collectives to grow up to 99 plants provided they comply with certain regulations. Ms Greenfield had applied in the name of her collective, "Light the Way," which opened in San Diego earlier this year. Her property had passed a preliminary inspection by Mendo sheriff's deputies shortly before the raid, and she had bought the sheriff's "zip-ties" intended to designate her plants as legal. In the days before the raid, Ms Greenfield had seen a helicopter hovering over her property; she inquired with the sheriff, who told her the copter belonged to DEA and wasn't under his control.
The agents invaded her property with guns drawn, tore out the collective's 99 plants and took Ms Greenfield's computer and cash. Ms Greenfield was not at home during the raid, but spoke on the phone to the DEA agent in charge. When she told him that she was a legal grower under the sheriff's program, the agent replied "I don't care what the sheriff says."
When she returned to her house she found it in disarray with soda cans strewn on the floor. "It was just a mess," she said, "No one should be able to tear your house apart like that."
Ms. Greenfield called the raid a "slap in the face of Mendocino's government."
The DEA has been tight-lipped about the raid, but claims it was part of a larger investigation involving other suspects.
"Here Mendo is trying to step out in front by passing this ordinance, and what do the feds do but raid the first applicant," commented Ms Greenfield's attorney, Bob Boyd of Ukiah. " The DEA is stepping all over local authorities trying to tax and regulate."
Neither Boyd nor other locals believe that the sheriff tipped off the DEA or gave them any information about permit applicants. Sheriff Allman has been highly supportive of efforts to bring local growers into the permit program. Nonetheless, observers fear that the raid will have a chilling effect.
"This raid is clear evidence that the DEA is out of control," said California NORML director Dale Gieringer. "A change in federal law is long overdue. In the meantime, the DEA needs a new director who will enforce Attorney General Holder's pledge not to interfere in state medical marijuana laws." The agency is currently directed by Michele Leonhart, a Bush holdover who has presided over numerous medical marijuana raids and has obstructed research efforts to develop marijuana for medicine. Obama has renominated her to head the agency - a move strongly opposed by drug reformers, who are calling on the administration to honor its pledge of change.

Well, there ya go, thanks for making our argument for us, fdd. Here is poor Joy Greenfield doing everything she can to follow the law, and they tear her apart. She's 68 and they took everything. The same thing happened to me last year and many, many others in this state. If we don't pass this bill, they will continue doing this until every one of us is wiped out. If it had already happened to you, you would be voting for it.

If you are a medical user this law will not apply to you, but it will keep you free.

If you don't like the law, then it will be changed, but we have to pass it first.

It's plain as day, we need to be together to pass this, if we are fragmented, they win, and they will be coming to get you.

fdd2blk · Jul 12, 2010

dtRepeat said:
well you're holding the point that is in not "now or never," and I agree with that, especially how I won't be silenced about this cause myself, but if we say yes to this, and it does get passed, as you're obviously in fear of, wouldn't it be easy just to continue fighting it even after? Padawan is stressing stepping stones here, and I tend to agree with him.

Just placing my input.

"obviously in fear of"?

where? i fear nothing. especially this.

fdd2blk · Jul 12, 2010

potroast said:
Well, there ya go, thanks for making our argument for us, fdd. Here is poor Joy Greenfield doing everything she can to follow the law, and they tear her apart. She's 68 and they took everything. The same thing happened to me last year and many, many others in this state. If we don't pass this bill, they will continue doing this until every one of us is wiped out. If it had already happened to you, you would be voting for it.

If you are a medical user this law will not apply to you, but it will keep you free.

If you don't like the law, then it will be changed, but we have to pass it first.

It's plain as day, we need to be together to pass this, if we are fragmented, they win, and they will be coming to get you.

we passed a medical bill and the feds still swooped right in on her. :wall:

so you think passing an "average joe bill" will cause them to back-off? i laugh.

"they will come get me."

busting me up here.

how many pot clubs do the feds bust a year? think how easy it will be when they are on every corner. and they don't have to fight the "medical" defense in court. yeah, should go over real well. :roll:

NoDrama · Jul 12, 2010

This is just as much about state rights as human rights. The Fed is way too powerful, they need to be taken down a few notches so they are subservient to the law, not masters and rulers who have no laws.

UncleBuck · Jul 12, 2010

FootClan said:
Sorry that im not worryed about a goverment that dosnt even provide heath care for even most basic shit.....They say i make to much money working a crap job waiting tables to even qualify for medical benifits...if i had kids and was poor id be rewarded with free health care but since im responsible and dont have kids i cant afford im punished... so ya im SELFESH you really think that extra tax money is going to help me or anyone i know?? How many times have we heard that extra taxes will go to help schools and this and that and yet first thing that gets CUT is SCHOOL funding and sorry if im only worryed about me cause right now my state and gov'nt sure isnt worryed about me at all...... and you really didnt have any facts that would turn me into a YES vote........

"...IF this voided current medical laws, which it does not. your point is 100% MOOT. you still get to carry eight ounces."

So your saying your 100% sure of this statement?? if thats the case where did you read this fact?? id like to see a link so i can share it with others that are looking to find the answer..... PLEASE SHARE THE LINK

sorry, i only share my super secret elite information with those that clock in at less than 5 unique spelling errors (max of 6 total, ignoring contractions and slang). you must suffer now :twisted:

tell me what will change TO YOUR DETRIMENT if this thing passes. i am especially interested in hearing medical cali growers convince me how their lives will become insufferable or at the very least poorer in some way because recreational usage, possesion, and cultivation is made legal for the masses in the way this bill describes. :confused:

fdd2blk · Jul 12, 2010

who said our lives would be insufferable? :neutral:

i don't like they way the bill is written. there is an agenda behind that i don't agree with. it is to benefit a small group of people in a large way. the rest of those are meant to deal with it. as a US citizen it is my right to decide my own vote. that's the beauty of a voting system. in Nov "the people" will decide.

UncleBuck · Jul 13, 2010

OK, your life won't be insufferable. and you are entitled to your vote, i'm not trying to change it.

what i am interested in knowing is how will it be to the detriment of the average cali med grower if recreational usage, possesion, and cultivation is made legal for the masses. why else would anyone vote against something that furthers the cause of ending cannabis prohibition? it seems to go against the spirit of voting in rational self interest otherwise

fdd2blk · Jul 13, 2010

you're making shit up for the sake of your own agenda. try it on someone else.

drherbalist · Jul 13, 2010

UncleBuck said:
OK, your life won't be insufferable. and you are entitled to your vote, i'm not trying to change it.

what i am interested in knowing is how will it be to the detriment of the average cali med grower if recreational usage, possesion, and cultivation is made legal for the masses. why else would anyone vote against something that furthers the cause of ending cannabis prohibition? it seems to go against the spirit of voting in rational self interest otherwise

fdd2blk said:
you're making shit up for the sake of your own agenda. try it on someone else.

Sounds like he's asking a question actually...not making shit up.

UncleBuck · Jul 13, 2010

fdd2blk said:
you're making shit up for the sake of your own agenda. try it on someone else.

perhaps you might articulate what i am making up and what my agenda is. because i am confused by both of those assertions

blazin256 · Jul 13, 2010

if people are restricted to a 5x5 space, who grows it for the stores to sell it to the public?

DelSlow · Jul 13, 2010

Medical card holders, illegal commercial growers, and people who can now grow weed legally. (if this passes)

fdd2blk · Jul 13, 2010

drherbalist said:
Sounds like he's asking a question actually...not making shit up.

where do i say anything about detriment? he made up that opinion to be able to argue his point. i never said it would be detrimental or insufferable. he is making those comments up. unless someone can find what he is talking about and quote it. maybe i missed it.

UncleBuck said:
why else would anyone vote against something that furthers the cause of ending cannabis prohibition?

i have stated why numerous times.

brianc01088 · Jul 13, 2010

FootClan said:
I think YOUR crazy for voting yes for somthing that you dont even know what your voting for..........your ready to vote yes but do you even know what your voting yes too....?? like fdd2blk said if your cought with over an ounce once law passes you go to JAIL!! right now im allowed to have 8 ounces in my posession........so for me 1 ounce would be like a step back not forward........why dont poeple see that?? its good for non medical users i guess but what about prop 215 patients?? its already legal for me so if everyone else is to dumb to go get there doctors note thats there prob i dont wanna be punished because those poeple rather have it legal and restricked to one ounce verse paying 100 bucks for there card...and come on have you guys seen the list for qaulifying ailments for medical cannibas its like two pages long pretty much everyone is a canidate for medical cannibas........just go down and get your freakn note then this law wont seem so good to you .........it only seems good to people that arent patients yet... of course that just my opinion and ive posted many posts on here trying to find ONE person that can convience me that this is a good bill?? so far NO ONE has givin me any info on as to why it would benifit prop 215 patiens........yes i know it will bring money to Ca but what does it do for ME ME ME ME ME I wanna know whats it do for me i dont care if ca makes more in taxes i mean really they already made so much off me from ticktets and the dmv and bridge tall and all kinds of ways they find to screw over its citizens so as far as im concerned fuck ca and making more money of me they can take some of those thousands they took from me over the years and put that to use.. so i just wanna know how is will benifit me and for me its already legal so i dont see how it benfits me when i can already carry half a pound around legally........

FootClan said:
Sorry that im not worryed about a goverment that dosnt even provide heath care for even most basic shit.....They say i make to much money working a crap job waiting tables to even qualify for medical benifits...if i had kids and was poor id be rewarded with free health care but since im responsible and dont have kids i cant afford im punished... so ya im SELFESH you really think that extra tax money is going to help me or anyone i know?? How many times have we heard that extra taxes will go to help schools and this and that and yet first thing that gets CUT is SCHOOL funding and sorry if im only worryed about me cause right now my state and gov'nt sure isnt worryed about me at all...... and you really didnt have any facts that would turn me into a YES vote........

"...IF this voided current medical laws, which it does not. your point is 100% MOOT. you still get to carry eight ounces."

So your saying your 100% sure of this statement?? if thats the case where did you read this fact?? id like to see a link so i can share it with others that are looking to find the answer..... PLEASE SHARE THE LINK

"[Editor's note: 1) Have you actually read the initiative (it is not a legislative bill)? The initiative language specifically mentions medical cannabis patients NOT being impacted by the passage of the initiative. 2) Use a spell check as such poor writing undercuts your concerns and credibility.]"

That's this guy getting flamed for posting his selfish negativism on a thread in a NORML forum.
http://blog.norml.org/2010/06/30/prop-19-support-legalizing-marijuana-in-california/
Reply number 43

Seriously guy? There are spell checking features on some of these web browsers... might want to check into that so you don't look like a fool.

fdd2blk said:
you're making shit up for the sake of your own agenda. try it on someone else.

He is not making anything up. I believe he is just trying to sort out how you can rationalize not voting for prop 19.

I don't think you guys realize what it would do for all the states of the union if it was passed. I don't live in California but I believe if it is passed other states would have to start thinking about rescheduling marijuana. As far as revenue goes, it will bring in more taxes and will probably even bring in more residents. I'm going to be graduating college in about 2 years and I'm going to go where ever I have the most freedom. I've had to deal with being punished for a victimless crime; I was arrested last summer for having a pipe and spent a night in jail for a PIPE?!?! Give me a break. This movement isn't just for California, it's for all states! :weed:

fdd2blk · Jul 13, 2010

what makes any of you feel the feds will allow any of this? :roll:

answer that and we can continue this.

UncleBuck · Jul 13, 2010

brianc01088 said:
I don't think you guys realize what it would do for all the states of the union if it was passed. I don't live in California but I believe if it is passed other states would have to start thinking about rescheduling marijuana

i believe oregon already has, if i remember correctly.

yep, i remembered correctly: http://stash.norml.org/oregon-reschedules-cannabis-as-a-schedule-ii-drug

as far as the feds go, what makes anyone think they would allow mmj to the extent they have? or illegal immigrants for that matter? they know where these illegals are working for the most part, and they could easily find out where my garden is. that is no reason to stop any debate.

vote NO on legalized and TAXED

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