Voter Initiatives Restricted

Dr.Pecker

Dr.Pecker

Well-Known Member
How can they just do away with statutory initiatives? I guess it's time for abrogate and a constitutional amendment.
 
P

passmethelid

Well-Known Member
bastards, the senate using bill no "776", like its american to fuck with election law.

as to dr bobs comments about milegalize not knowing whats going on, theres been several articles interviewing jeff hank about the progress and situation of the bill, should it pass.

last i heard , milegalize group of lawyers dug into the law, including the mich constitution and found the following:

1. the board of canvassers doesnt even use the digital QVF to verify signatures. apparently it asked individual clerks to do this?

2. because of the wording of the constitution, the limit of gathering signatures is 4 years (or in between general elections).

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(1dhiu2oc3vnzcy4erjvnftxw))/printDocument.aspx?objectName=mcl-Constitution&version=txt

§ 9 Initiative and referendum; limitations; appropriations; petitions.


Sec. 9.

The people reserve to themselves the power to propose laws and to enact and reject laws, called the initiative, and the power to approve or reject laws enacted by the legislature, called the referendum. The power of initiative extends only to laws which the legislature may enact under this constitution. The power of referendum does not extend to acts making appropriations for state institutions or to meet deficiencies in state funds and must be invoked in the manner prescribed by law within 90 days following the final adjournment of the legislative session at which the law was enacted. To invoke the initiative or referendum, petitions signed by a number of registered electors, not less than eight percent for initiative and five percent for referendum of the total vote cast for all candidates for governor at the last preceding general election at which a governor was elected shall be required.

No law as to which the power of referendum properly has been invoked shall be effective thereafter unless approved by a majority of the electors voting thereon at the next general election.

Any law proposed by initiative petition shall be either enacted or rejected by the legislature without change or amendment within 40 session days from the time such petition is received by the legislature. If any law proposed by such petition shall be enacted by the legislature it shall be subject to referendum, as hereinafter provided.

If the law so proposed is not enacted by the legislature within the 40 days, the state officer authorized by law shall submit such proposed law to the people for approval or rejection at the next general election. The legislature may reject any measure so proposed by initiative petition and propose a different measure upon the same subject by a yea and nay vote upon separate roll calls, and in such event both measures shall be submitted by such state officer to the electors for approval or rejection at the next general election.

Any law submitted to the people by either initiative or referendum petition and approved by a majority of the votes cast thereon at any election shall take effect 10 days after the date of the official declaration of the vote. No law initiated or adopted by the people shall be subject to the veto power of the governor, and no law adopted by the people at the polls under the initiative provisions of this section shall be amended or repealed, except by a vote of the electors unless otherwise provided in the initiative measure or by three-fourths of the members elected to and serving in each house of the legislature. Laws approved by the people under the referendum provision of this section may be amended by the legislature at any subsequent session thereof. If two or more measures approved by the electors at the same election conflict, that receiving the highest affirmative vote shall prevail.

The legislature shall implement the provisions of this section.
Click to expand...
http://www.eclectablog.com/2016/05/how-our-constitution-is-going-up-in-smoke-the-hypocrisy-of-michigans-constitutional-conservatives.html

http://www.thealpenanews.com/page/content.detail/id/1168150/Board-deadlocks-on-easing-use-of-old-ballot-drive-signatures.html


so the current 180 limit is unconstitutional. sb 776 would also be unconstitutional.
 
Dr. Bob

Dr. Bob

Well-Known Member
whoa there, where did I ever say MiLegalize wasn't addressing it? I said it probably trashed the initiatives for this year, but I said no such thing about any of the 3 petitions. It was just passed last week, but I've not seen much discussion on the boards, wasn't sure if everyone was aware of what was going on.

Dr. Bob
 
Dr.Pecker

Dr.Pecker

Well-Known Member
That snyder is a snake in the grass.
The lawsuit filed Thursday challenges the old law as well as the new version signed this month by Snyder, asserting that both are unconstitutional. MI Legalize is also seeking monetary damages of up to $1.1 million plus other costs and punitive relief unless its signatures are fully checked against state voter records, so as to disprove that they are stale.

"We have filed and we will prevail!" said Debra Young of Oak Park, a medical-marijuana user and board member of MI Legalize, in an email to scores of supporters Thursday night.
 
smink13

smink13

Well-Known Member
@Dr. Bob anyway you can point me to a thread that explains the initiatives and how they have evolved? Last I read them was over 6 months ago and with November coming fast, I'd really like to finally get my head out of the dirt and know what's going on! I know I should have before but I'm the kind of person that avoids conflict and just hopes for the beat at times :/
 
NurseNancy420

NurseNancy420

Well-Known Member
smink13 said:
@Dr. Bob anyway you can point me to a thread that explains the initiatives and how they have evolved? Last I read them was over 6 months ago and with November coming fast, I'd really like to finally get my head out of the dirt and know what's going on! I know I should have before but I'm the kind of person that avoids conflict and just hopes for the beat at times :/
Click to expand...
Hope in one hand, shit in the other. See which one fills up first my usta say..

Both ballot initiatives are dead as far as I know.. Dr Bob may know more
 
smink13

smink13

Well-Known Member
@NurseNancy420 your right, I know it but sometimes I bury my head for fear of what I will find. A terrible habit I must say.

I know there were some issues with them awhile back and how people were "flipping sides" and what was once something us patients and caregivers could build off, turned into no caregivers at all or something like that.

Just trying to stay on top from now on and see what's coming at me so I can fight that shit.


I'm not giving up shit. We have worked too hard and patients just shouldn't have to fucking do without medicine that works.
 
Dr. Bob

Dr. Bob

Well-Known Member
Voter initiatives were created in the 63 Michigan Constitution. They were specifically designed to be accessible to the PEOPLE rather than just those with the money to force issues to the ballot (they used the UAW as an example back then).

What happened with the latest round is they waited until 2 weeks before the petitions were due, passed a law that made most of the signatures invalid, and put it through with immediate effect as if it was an emergency to get the three current initiatives off the ballot. Then the gov signed it and the issues were dead.

MiLegalized sued and lost at the court of claims. Last I heard they were requesting emergency relief from the MiSC. At issue is the verification of the signatures. The state HAD a very 19th century way of doing it- requesting each of 83 county clerks to hand verify each signature- then told the clerks they didn't have to do it if asked. We could have easily used 21st century technology to verify them (it is all in a computer file and a simple task to do it), but rather than take the right course, they listened to the big money behind the fracking industry and just wrecked the system.

Now the only way to get a voter initiative on the ballot is to have enough money behind you to pay people to collect signatures in the 6 month window and get them in. Unless you are a DeVos or the UAW, that is a very difficult nut to crack.

First this violates the spirit of the voter initiative. Second, putting it into immediate effect simply because you have the votes in one party (and some very questionable practices in the House where they don't) clearly violated the Michigan Constitution.

They are still working on it but I don't anticipate it being resolved in time to get on the ballot.

Dr. Bob
 
Dr. Bob

Dr. Bob

Well-Known Member
Actually the best way is to break the ability to put everything through with immediate effect. Right now the Republicans control both chambers and can put EVERY bill in with immediate effect. Examples of this include the modification of voter initiatives as noted above. They also used their majority to put through such 'emergency' measures as approving 'hunter pink' with immediate effect. The ONLY way to stop this is to make sure another party has control of at least 1 chamber. We have a real chance to get control of the house this election, despite the huge amounts of money donated by the DeVos Family to keep everything Republican (including more than $30K to my opponent). Look at your local democrats and see if they are worth your vote on this issue of control of the House- even if you are a strong Trump supporter, this is worth a blue vote locally.

Dr. Bob
 
Timmahh

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
Disclaimer, Passthelid, this reply is NOT Directed at you, Just used your comment.

passmethelid said:
bastards, the senate using bill no "776", like its american to fuck with election law.

as to dr bobs comments about milegalize not knowing whats going on, theres been several articles interviewing jeff hank about the progress and situation of the bill, should it pass.

last i heard , milegalize group of lawyers dug into the law, including the mich constitution and found the following:

1. the board of canvassers doesnt even use the digital QVF to verify signatures. apparently it asked individual clerks to do this?

2. because of the wording of the constitution, the limit of gathering signatures is 4 years (or in between general elections).

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(1dhiu2oc3vnzcy4erjvnftxw))/printDocument.aspx?objectName=mcl-Constitution&version=txt



http://www.eclectablog.com/2016/05/how-our-constitution-is-going-up-in-smoke-the-hypocrisy-of-michigans-constitutional-conservatives.html

http://www.thealpenanews.com/page/content.detail/id/1168150/Board-deadlocks-on-easing-use-of-old-ballot-drive-signatures.html


so the current 180 limit is unconstitutional. sb 776 would also be unconstitutional.
Click to expand...

MiLegalize were so off base with this nonsense, it is not even funny here. That part eluded too in the quote simply indicates the criteria to be followed in determining the number of qualified signatures needed for the initiative process to qualify for the Ballot.

The total number of votes cast for governor at the last election is where the 5% for referendum; 8% for Statutory Initiative; and 10% for Constitutional Amendment numbers are calculate from, thereby indicating how many signatures are required for the Initiative being circulated to 'make the ballot'.

SB776 did not change the Petitioning Process at all. There has been 180 days signature gathering time since 1954 and the passage of Public Act 116. That is over 62 yrs. Ever petition to ever be put on the ballot by We the People via the Petition Signature gathering process has had to clear the 180 day hurdle, including the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act. This whole SB 776 has been a red herring as it has not changed anything with regards to the Petitioning/Signature Gathering Process.

The Michigan Constitution clearly indicates Legislature has the Authority to write Michigan Election Law In 1954, Public Act 116 was passed, which outlined the Petitioning Process in Michigan, at which time the 180 days was put in place. This has been Constitutional Law since it was made Law here in Michigan. That has not changed, and SB 776 did not change it. All Sb 776 did, was make clear, A petition campaign for a Indirect Statutory Initiative and a Constitutional Amendment has 180 days to collect the required number of valid electoral signatures to qualify from the ballot. That 180 day time frame is determined by the day a campaign submits their signatures to the state for validation. The day they are submitted is used, and the immediately prior 180 days is the "prescribed 180 day signature collection time".

That is what the MMM Act had to clear, and it needed to have more signatures than MiLegalize required.

The reason MiLegalize Failed is because 1st and foremost, the Initiative Language was Terrible. It was just as bad as what was just signed into law by Snyder. MiLegalize can be called the Recreational Pot version of what Lansing just gave us.

For anyone that has been bitching about needing Lansing to fix it for them with Tax and Regulate, well pat yourselves on your back. You got it, so take your bows.

Then get the fuck out of the way and let us fix your fuckups.
 
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