Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
that's exactly what the tea party attempted to do by refusing to raise the debt ceiling.
Want to fix the debt problem? We need to print more money!
- Thread starter Dan Kone
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that's exactly what the tea party attempted to do by refusing to raise the debt ceiling.
tet1953
Well-Known Member
BS. What they tried to do is exactly what we are witnessing: economic calamity. They would like nothing better than for this to continue right through the election. I take comfort in knowing that it is going to backfire on them big time, but I also realize that it doesn't matter. The damage is done, they've screwed us all.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
And that calamity in party was created by the tea party when they turned what has always been a routine matter of procedure into a political football by refusing to raise the debt ceiling.
The end result was raising the interest rates on our debt, creating more debt in order to prove how fiscally responsible they are. What kind of bizarro world are these people living in?
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
That's a hypothetical. I'll stick with reality. The reality is that we have the ability to manipulate our currency how we like. We can print more currency in bad economic times, then deflate it during a stronger economy. Both provide us with an economic edge in the world market.
That is an edge we lose if we elect an ignorant nut job like Ron Paul who want's to put us on the gold standard.
Cali chronic
Well-Known Member
Right voting for a party is as stupid as voting for a Democrat or a Republican or a Liberal---How is that?
Basically what was meant was YOU are stupid if you vote for a Party because of it's name. Right now it would be STUPID to Vote Democrat as that is for Obummer who has done nothing for this country in 3 years other then cost us more money in the long run. Hence, Voting for Democrat is as stupid as voting for a party. Vote for the man not the Party!
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Redundancy. It's like saying if you're stupid then you might be stupid too.
Well I don't think many people are doing that. What if you vote for a party based on the values that party stands for? How is that stupid.
I believe in the basic values of FDR and LBJ. I want the American dream, infrastructure modernization, the great society, civil rights, a war on poverty. I also want greater environmental protections, less military spending, etc. I have zero chance of any of those things if I vote for pretty much any republican.
The only republican I've seen in recent history who comes close to sharing my values was Arnold Schwarzenegger, and since he was an actor, I did not have confidence in his ability to administrate, so I didn't vote for him. But I would have voted for a republican with law making experience who ran on the same platform. Unfortunately, that republican is a hypothetical at this point. I've never had an opportunity to vote for a republican who shared my values.
What's insane is voting for a candidate who does not share your values because you like him personally. That's way more nuts than voting for a political party who shares your values.
To an extent, I actually agree with this. I may not vote for Obama for the same reasons I didn't vote for Schwarzenegger. I have a lack of confidence in his ability to administrate the changes he was elected to implement.
Of course that all depends on who the republican candidate is. When looking at the policies Obama has put in place, he's ideologically about the same as Romney or Huntsman. I have more confidence in either Romney or Huntsman's ability to administrate those same policies, so it makes sense for me to vote for them over Obama.
However I could never vote for a member of the far right lunatic fringe. Ron Paul, Michele Bachmann, Rick Perry, etc all would do far more damage than Obama so at that point I'd take Obama.
Obama does not equal every democrat. So no, you did not demonstrate that here.
RyanTheRhino
Well-Known Member
sounds good on paper but our debt is not valued buy dollars . our debt is valued at how much gold we borrowed so that wont help.
RyanTheRhino
Well-Known Member
This is what Germany did and failed miserably.
A wheelbarrow of fiat money used to buy a loaf of bread in Weimar Germany
OK, but the USA doesn't control the dollar, it is not a function of government.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
No, it really isn't. We don't just knock on China's door and ask to borrow sacks of gold, we sell things like treasury bonds which are paid back in dollars. Not all treasury notes are TIPS.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
This is what Germany did and failed miserably.
A wheelbarrow of fiat money used to buy a loaf of bread in Weimar Germany
It is possible to inflate currency with out going to the point of hyper inflation. We do it all the time as do most countries in the world. Not every act of devaluing currency results in the country turning into Zimbabwe. That's a worst case scenario, not a typical result. It's also controllable.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Sure, but the US government collaborates with and has influence over the fed.
It's not like Bernanke blocked Obama's cell phone number.
I'm just thankful that we don't have an extremist like Ron Paul in the whitehouse which would make manipulating currency to our benefit impossible.
RyanTheRhino
Well-Known Member
you need to export objects of value. American has almost no exports. If we where to devalue our money we would just be stirring it around in the empty glass we call Americas economy. We need to export first so other countries will be filling our glass. Once it overflow's the cup then we could increase the dollars value so we can fit more foreign money in it.
Unfortunately we do not have exports, so devaluing the money will not solve the problem but only prolong it.
Michael Sparks
Active Member
Have you researched Fiat Currency also have you read modern money mechanics ? it explains how this was all designed to FAIL.\
What i find comical is that you believe what you read in the papers and watch from the media, they are all supporting the current system, those that are inept to think for themselves are happy on the 9-5 schedule to go home pop in their TV dinner and strap in for more lectures. Get real Dan! stop jocking the pop culture ideals
What i find comical is that you believe what you read in the papers and watch from the media, they are all supporting the current system, those that are inept to think for themselves are happy on the 9-5 schedule to go home pop in their TV dinner and strap in for more lectures. Get real Dan! stop jocking the pop culture ideals
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Hard to tell with Bernanke. It's one of those things you can't really say for sure until you see the effects of his body of work. Greenspan who was thought to be a total genius and widely respected by both parties turned out to be a total hack and a fraud. Paul Volcker looked like a total hack while he held the job, but in retrospect he didn't do too bad at all.
Anyone who thinks they can judge Bernanke right now has no clue what they're talking about. You've got to wait 10-15 years until he's out of his job to really judge his work. Right now anyone who has an opinion either way is just guessing.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Well actually we do export quite a bit, just not as much as we import currently. The difference is usually ~5%, so it's not like we export nothing and only import.
Should be mentioned that China actually buys dollars to keep the US dollar over valued compared to their currency. By devaluing our currency we counteract that. If a dollar is worth 8 Chinese yuans, and China buys a trillion dollars worth of treasury notes, the value of those notes in Chinese currency is 8 trillion yuan. If a dollar is is devalued and is now only worth 4 yuans, those treasury notes that were worth 8 trillion yuan when purchased become half as valuable, only worth 4 trillion yuans. And we could use the money we printed to either pay off those notes or to create jobs here resulting in increased revenues to pay those off.
It's basically cheating China out of a ton of money. Something they do to us all the time.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Only if you are very careful and listen to only people who are telling you exactly what you want to hear and nothing else. In reality that is not true at all.
That's quite an assumption there. I thought my idea was pretty unique. I really don't hear anyone advocating for inflation in the media.
Conversely pretty much everyone in the media is now advocating some form of austerity, you know, your position. I'm advocating the opposite. So if anyone fits into your characterization of someone brainwashed by the media, it's you, not me.
Learn to think for yourself before accusing others of failing to do so.
they are all supporting the current system, those that are inept to think for themselves are happy on the 9-5 schedule to go home pop in their TV dinner and strap in for more lectures. Get real Dan! stop jocking the pop culture ideals
I'm pretty fucking far from a 9-5er dude. I've been operating outside the system most of my life. Quite successfully if I do say so. I haven't had to take a real job since my first year out of college.
Your Ron Paul blanket talking points you use to characterize everyone who doesn't think what Ron Paul tells them to think do not apply to me man. You're barking up the wrong tree.
mame
Well-Known Member
In a liquidity trap, printing money will not lead to significant growth nor will it lead to significant inflation unless you commit to enough to push interest rates negative - but this is just a theory, I dont think it's ever been done. If Bernkanke pursued a policy like this it would define his chairmanship; Whether it pulls the U.S. out of the liquidity trap or causes a myriad of undesirable consequences that will only make it worse will surely be the story of this not-recession either way.
The only safe and sure option, of course, is fiscal stimulus but it's politically unlikely - print away!
The only safe and sure option, of course, is fiscal stimulus but it's politically unlikely - print away!
