water cure?

Budda_Luva

Budda_Luva

Well-Known Member
budbomb said:
The image attached is from a paper few years back, it gives a good over view of what's going on. The key steps for the solubility of the molecule are as follows:

(1) The cleavage of the long aliphatic group to form chlorophyllide. By removing this large hydrophobic group you increase solubility by...

Ok, going to have to go back to first principles here. When you solvate a molecule you pack water around it in an ordered fashion. Water doesn't like being ordered as is represents a decrease in entropy (chaos, essentially the random nature of a system), and this takes energy to occur. The reason so many things are soluble in water is because water is a polar molecule (it has slight possive and negative charges on it) which means it can interact with charged substances (eg the +ive Na and -ive Cl in salt) and also with other polar molecules, where highly electronegative elements such as O or N have drawn -ve charge towards themselves (eg the OH groups on sugar). In the later case these interactions are known as Hydrogen bonds, as the slightly +ive Hs on the water can interact. All these interactions are energetically favourable therefore can counteract the un-energetically favourable decrease in entropy. Bit hard to explain without diagrams so if anyone cares i'll sketch some out.

Ok, so back to the cleavage of the aliphatic group (by the by, aliphatic referes to linear hydrocarbon chains, as opposed to aromatic groups, which are rings, like those found on THC:blsmoke:). With a bit of luck you'll now see how removing a large group with no charged or polar nature is good for the solubility of the whole.

(2) Next up is the removal of the chelated Mg2+ ion from the centre of the tetrapyrrol (tetra = 4, pyrrol = this particular type of 5 carbon ring) structure. Usually we like metal ions in terms of solubility, they have a nice strong +ive charge for the negative ends of H2O to cluster around. However, in this case the Mg2+ is tightly held in the centre of the ring so not too much water can get to it, and it is also hogging 4 Nitrogen atoms which are extremely good H bond acceptors. The Mg is thus removed, and water can get into the gap, resulting in lots more lovely energetically favourable bonding.

(3) Finally you get to the breaking open of the tetrapyrol structure. This opens up 3 more hydrogen bonding sites finally over-coming the entropy energy barrier and alowing the break down product to drift off out of your bud....
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ya lost me lol
 
budbomb

budbomb

Active Member
Ok, bit more detail on the movement of chlorophyll out of the thylakoid membrane.

Basically what this diagram is saying is that the chlorophyll must first be removed from the thylakoid membrane to complete stage 1 degradation in the stroma then be transported out and into the vacuole for stage 2. This is all a tightly regulated system to prevent functional chlorophyll being degraded. After cell death if the cell is kept underwater then when the membranes holding everything separate begin to degrade then the enzymes controling the breakdown process will be able to diffuse freely into contact with the chlorophyll.
 

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MrBaker

MrBaker

Well-Known Member
budbomb said:
Ok, bit more detail on the movement of chlorophyll out of the thylakoid membrane.

Basically what this diagram is saying is that the chlorophyll must first be removed from the thylakoid membrane to complete stage 1 degradation in the stroma then be transported out and into the vacuole for stage 2. This is all a tightly regulated system to prevent functional chlorophyll being degraded. After cell death if the cell is kept underwater then when the membranes holding everything separate begin to degrade then the enzymes controling the breakdown process will be able to diffuse freely into contact with the chlorophyll.
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Thanks very much for the diagrams and good explanations. I read your other longer post on the previous page and it's good stuff!

I took plant phys, my minor was chem, and I have ~8 months experience working with organic chemistry in a real-life lab setting, so your explanations were great for me.

I love discussing plant science as it relates to cannabis related activities, but I don't get a chance to do it much.
 
budbomb

budbomb

Active Member
No worries, glad to be able to help!:) and i know was you mean on the weed topic, not quite something you can get into a discussion with your professors with!
 
Budda_Luva

Budda_Luva

Well-Known Member
Hey budbomb im not sure if i gave u any rep but ill make sure today


anyways im not sure how experienced ur are with growing marijuana or if ur familiar with hang drying usually it take a while to properly get all the moisture out id say 2 weeks or so but while water curing the bud is actually surrounded by water but (OOOOOOOOOOOOO THATS WHY BUDS LOSE THEIR COLOR BECAUSE THE CHOLORPLAST IS BEING REMOVED AHAAAA I GET WAT U MENT NOW) this guy actually told me that after he water crued he hung up the bud to dri n they dried in 2 days -.- n i wanna know if thats true...

think u could go all scientifical n tell me tha true
 
Budda_Luva

Budda_Luva

Well-Known Member
it doesnt completly ruin it like u make it sound like it juss loses its color weight and some of its taste but increases overall potentcy
 
budbomb

budbomb

Active Member
Budda_Luva said:
Hey budbomb im not sure if i gave u any rep but ill make sure today


anyways im not sure how experienced ur are with growing marijuana or if ur familiar with hang drying usually it take a while to properly get all the moisture out id say 2 weeks or so but while water curing the bud is actually surrounded by water but (OOOOOOOOOOOOO THATS WHY BUDS LOSE THEIR COLOR BECAUSE THE CHOLORPLAST IS BEING REMOVED AHAAAA I GET WAT U MENT NOW) this guy actually told me that after he water crued he hung up the bud to dri n they dried in 2 days -.- n i wanna know if thats true...

think u could go all scientifical n tell me tha true
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I've heard this too, and yes, there is indeed some science behind it. Check out the diagram, that big blue thing in the middle is called the vacuole. It basically acts as the cells own water reservoir. This is important to keep water on hand for cell processes, but also to keep the cell turgid.

[Random aside about why plants wilt when you don't water them: This large body of water in the centre of the cell puts pressure on the tough outer cell wall, allowing it to keep its shape and rigidity (stiffness). When the vaculoe is full the cell is said to be turgid. When a plant becomes dehydrated there is not enough water in each cell's vacuole to keep pressure on the cell wall so the tissue loses it's rigidity, and the plant wilts.]

When bud is air-dryed, for water the escape it has to pass from the vacuole into the cytoplasm, then across the cell membrane and through the cell wall, and then it has to find it's way out of the plant tissue too! This takes time.
When you water cure you allow cellular breakdown to occur first. This makes it a lot easier for the water to escape, as essentially there are holes all over the place.

A good analagy is to think of it in terms of bath towels. Nice shinny fluffy new towels take ages to dry out as they hold so much water and it's all quite well locked up. Old knackered worn out towels take far less time to dry because all the little fibres inside them that hold on to water have degraded.

Hope this helps
 

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Budda_Luva

Budda_Luva

Well-Known Member
but i thought onyl the chlorplast breaks down when u water cure??? or does it also cause the vacule to expload and cell walls to break down as well
 
F

frmrboi

Well-Known Member
Budda_Luva said:
but i thought onyl the chlorplast breaks down when u water cure??? or does it also cause the vacule to expload and cell walls to break down as well
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you want cell explosion ? freeze your weed before you water cure it that'll speed things up big time.
 
C

cyborgasm

Well-Known Member
I've water cured before and I definitely approved of the results! First of all, since I haven't seen anyone state it explicitly yet:

Water curing does NOT cause any loss of THC or any of the other cannabinoids. (unless, of course, you handle it roughly in the process)

It does weaken some of the flavor, especially the fruity weed. My stuff is usually the piney type of taste and water curing seems to leave that taste more in tact. So in summary I would definitely recommend water curing to anyone who strictly cares about potency, efficiency, and ease, but I would NOT recommend it to someone who places a priority on exotic taste.
 
DaveTheNewbie

DaveTheNewbie

Well-Known Member
ZeroTransFat said:
Did you replace the water every day?
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of course :)

due to home politics, the bud in water is in a lightproof container with a lid on. the container is huge for the bud in it and i replace all the water every day.

maybe cause you had the lid off you didnt get the same level of stink i did.
 
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