Water or Amendments, what to do next

Embarrassing but here goes,

Beginning of week 6:



Beginning of week 8:



Amended soil, second use, 1/3 sphagnum peat, ewc, pumice/perlite/biochar, amended same as first, 1 cup per cf., kelp meal, oyster shell flower, fish meal, azomite. Two weeks in flower and I top-dressed one inch ewc, kelp meal and malted barley flour.

Watered with ro water, added aloe, protek every other, coconut at 1/4 cup per gallon every third.

Seemed to go south quick. I am having trouble with watering, tried to keep top moist, had a layer of hydrophobic soil a couple of inches down but the bottom was still wet according to the weight of the pots.
5 and 7 gallon geo-pots.

Does this look like too much water? Soil recipe seems short on Sulphur and magnesium?

Next grow at about 6 weeks from seed, bought BAS craft blend and top dressed these:

newgrow16 said:

Embarrassing but here goes,

Beginning of week 6:

View attachment 4199334 View attachment 4199335

Beginning of week 8:

View attachment 4199336 View attachment 4199337 View attachment 4199338

Amended soil, second use, 1/3 sphagnum peat, ewc, pumice/perlite/biochar, amended same as first, 1 cup per cf., kelp meal, oyster shell flower, fish meal, azomite. Two weeks in flower and I top-dressed one inch ewc, kelp meal and malted barley flour.

Watered with ro water, added aloe, protek every other, coconut at 1/4 cup per gallon every third.

Seemed to go south quick. I am having trouble with watering, tried to keep top moist, had a layer of hydrophobic soil a couple of inches down but the bottom was still wet according to the weight of the pots.
5 and 7 gallon geo-pots.

Does this look like too much water? Soil recipe seems short on Sulphur and magnesium?

Click to expand...

8 weeks into flower using organic and no nutes... that discoloring is pretty normal imo... the plant naturally takes things from the large fan leaves as it gets more mature. looks good to me man!

if anything I would look to temps and maybe the fact there is no mulch on that first batch.

Absolutely nothing to be embarrassed about, man!

You seem to have transitioned well from last grow to this one. The initial changes I would have recommended: a tent, carbon filter, water proof lining, maybe some stands and saucers (personal preference), you appear to have already implemented.

A few things. Think about getting and filling some sort of screen; other people may completely disagree with me, but it's important to fill in your canopy, and your flowering plants leave a lot of light on the floor.

Also, confirming that you're pictures are from weeks 6 and 8, again, not much to worry about. You're beginning to lose larger fan leaves, but look at the smaller leaves on the flowers; they're still dark green. The tips show some signs of something, but I don't know what it is.

With such new soil, I would lean more on, as you identified, watering issues rather than depleted soil. Often times, again, my anecdotal experience, nutrient deficiencies are caused not by something lacking in the soil, rather it drying out too quickly.

I'm unable to see. How thick is your mulch layer for the flowering plants and for the vegging plants? As plants grow, their roots grow too. One mistake I often make is filling the pot too much and forgetting to use a thick mulch layer from the beginning. This works, in the beginning, because transplants, (often root bound and dying for more soil), take well in their new pots. Having small root masses, neither the level of the soil or the absence of a thick mulch layer matters much; the plant does fine. But, as the plant grows, its roots begin to push the top of the soil up.

I'm sure you've observed this, so I apologize if this seems out of place.

Returning, as the root mass grows, the pot's ability to retain water drastically decreases, specifically if a plant is vegged too long. To make matters worse, if there is insufficient space for a mulch layer, though the plant can take up water and appears to be thriving, the bio-diverse ecosystem of life dies or experiences decline and cannot re-establish, thus the nutrients they release are not as available.

Your plants look good now because they're small. Mulch. Lots of mulch. More pot space. What do I know. Someone, please tell me if I'm wrong. These are just my experiences.

peace, to everyone.

If you're concerned about water-stress, consider sub-irrigation setups; mulching plus sub-irrigation will certainly repay dividends. You're looking great here, though--no reason to be embarrassed at all. Well done, keep an eye on them trichs and get ready for harvest soon!

Be easy,

looking good

OP, curious as to nitrogen sources in your organic medium. I’m assuming your fish meal and the EWC are having the largest effect. Anything else in there?

You mentioned mineral sources, texture additives, all seems well to me. I use a pinch of bloodmeal and a spoonful of bone meal for every gallon or two of soil myself. I use compost also.

Seems to me you just need a bit more N in your dirt mix? I could be wrong.

meangreengrowinmachine said:

8 weeks into flower using organic and no nutes... that discoloring is pretty normal imo... the plant naturally takes things from the large fan leaves as it gets more mature. looks good to me man!

Click to expand...

agreed

newgrow16 said:

Embarrassing but here goes,

Beginning of week 6:

View attachment 4199334 View attachment 4199335

Beginning of week 8:

View attachment 4199336 View attachment 4199337 View attachment 4199338

Amended soil, second use, 1/3 sphagnum peat, ewc, pumice/perlite/biochar, amended same as first, 1 cup per cf., kelp meal, oyster shell flower, fish meal, azomite. Two weeks in flower and I top-dressed one inch ewc, kelp meal and malted barley flour.

Watered with ro water, added aloe, protek every other, coconut at 1/4 cup per gallon every third.

Seemed to go south quick. I am having trouble with watering, tried to keep top moist, had a layer of hydrophobic soil a couple of inches down but the bottom was still wet according to the weight of the pots.
5 and 7 gallon geo-pots.

Does this look like too much water? Soil recipe seems short on Sulphur and magnesium?

Click to expand...

smoking Nitrate is over rated mate, dont worry about it, the plants look as they should. Cannabis should yellow out. I am curious to know where this must be green till the death message originated. May be the cancer causing synthetic nutrient business?

Ecompost said:

smoking Nitrate is over rated mate, dont worry about it, the plants look as they should. Cannabis should yellow out. I am curious to know where this must be green till the death message originated. May be the cancer causing synthetic nutrient business?

Click to expand...

exactly my thoughts!!

meangreengrowinmachine said:

if anything I would look to temps and maybe the fact there is no mulch on that first batch.

Click to expand...

I used green mulch which pretty much died off now, but pretty sparse. Environment was in control for this grow, temps around 80 and humidity in 40's. I added more green mulch and barley straw at about an inch on next grow.

JayBio420 said:

OP, curious as to nitrogen sources in your organic medium. I’m assuming your fish meal and the EWC are having the largest effect. Anything else in there?

You mentioned mineral sources, texture additives, all seems well to me. I use a pinch of bloodmeal and a spoonful of bone meal for every gallon or two of soil myself. I use compost also.

Seems to me you just need a bit more N in your dirt mix? I could be wrong.

Click to expand...

Correct, only fish meal and EWC, and I did not add more compost on reamending, just the top-dressing of ewc and kelp meal. I just acquired build a soil craft blend and wonder if I should just use it for amending and building soil?

Ecompost said:

smoking Nitrate is over rated mate, dont worry about it, the plants look as they should. Cannabis should yellow out. I am curious to know where this must be green till the death message originated. May be the cancer causing synthetic nutrient business?

Click to expand...

Keep in mind organic growers often have steady amounts of N in their soils due to slow release nutrients at harvest, and often have some of the smoothest tastiest herb.

There’s more to flavour and aroma of smoked cannabis than how many nutrients remain in the fan leaves or root zone, like how it was dried and cured, the health of the plant, the proper amounts of nutrients throughout bloom, etc.
Nitrates are stored in the fan leaves primarily, which is why they yellow as the N runs out. Outdoor growers often yellow with the season due to light and temperature, and this is environmentally inititated and hormones do the rest.

Feeding til the end has worked well for many many growers. It may or not work for you and it’s a big grey area where more research is required. It is NOT the only deciding factor in smoke quality. Feeding til the end came
about from the gargantuan agricultural industry that’s been around for hundreds of years, who don’t starve their flowers,
Fruits, vegetables, grain or pulse crops, trees or shrubs. Nature also doesn’t randomly starve their plants. Genetics, environment including balanced nutrition produce better quality fruit or flowers, which then attract more animals and insects to pollinate, better receive pollination, more effectively produce or carry the seeds away. And in our plant that means large and abundant calyxs, with dense and fat trichomes.

JayBio420 said:

Keep in mind organic growers often have steady amounts of N in their soils due to slow release nutrients at harvest, and often have some of the smoothest tastiest herb.

There’s more to flavour and aroma of smoked cannabis than how many nutrients remain in the fan leaves or root zone, like how it was dried and cured, the health of the plant, the proper amounts of nutrients throughout bloom, etc.
Nitrates are stored in the fan leaves primarily, which is why they yellow as the N runs out. Outdoor growers often yellow with the season due to light and temperature, and this is environmentally inititated and hormones do the rest.

Feeding til the end has worked well for many many growers. It may or not work for you and it’s a big grey area where more research is required. It is NOT the only deciding factor in smoke quality. Feeding til the end came
about from the gargantuan agricultural industry that’s been around for hundreds of years, who don’t starve their flowers,
Fruits, vegetables, grain or pulse crops, trees or shrubs. Nature also doesn’t randomly starve their plants. Genetics, environment including balanced nutrition produce better quality fruit or flowers, which then attract more animals and insects to pollinate, better receive pollination, more effectively produce or carry the seeds away. And in our plant that means large and abundant calyxs, with dense and fat trichomes.

Click to expand...

The only feedings were top dressings of kelp meal, earth worm castings two weeks into flower .

What should I do soil on next grow?

newgrow16 said:

The only feedings were top dressings of kelp meal, earth worm castings two weeks into flower .

What should I do soil on next grow?

Click to expand...

Well, if you’re relying on the soil and amendments to supply the plant, I would reccomended some compost, blood meal or bone meal to add N to your soil mix.

Is that what you meant?

BAS Craft Blend:
weighs about 8.3 Ounces per cup Ingredients all Equal by Weight:
Thorvin Premium Kelp Meal,Ahimsa Neem/Karanja Cake, Alfalfa Meal, CalPhos, Camelina Meal, Crustacean Meal, Fish Meal, 3x Fish Bone Meal, Soybean Meal, Sul-Po-Mag (Also Known as K-Mag or Langbeinite), Malted Barley Grains (3 Varieties), Azomite, Basalt - Local Colorado, Gypsum, Oyster Flour

Should I amend outgoing flower soil with about two cups per cubic foot and or just get a couple of things that I seem to be lacking, such as Alfalfa meal, crustacean meal, sul-po-mag, basalt and gypsum?

JayBio420 said:

Well, if you’re relying on the soil and amendments to supply the plant, I would reccomended some compost, blood meal or bone meal to add N to your soil mix.

Is that what you meant?

Click to expand...

Yes that is my question.

Alfalfa meal has some interesting uses as a phytohormone, or more specifically a compound in Alfalfa called Triacontanol. Best used in vegetative growth periods best I can tell.

If that original mix is what you’ve been using, just stick with it, amending it slowly with that multi-meal you just described.

JayBio420 said:

Keep in mind organic growers often have steady amounts of N in their soils due to slow release nutrients at harvest, and often have some of the smoothest tastiest herb.

There’s more to flavour and aroma of smoked cannabis than how many nutrients remain in the fan leaves or root zone, like how it was dried and cured, the health of the plant, the proper amounts of nutrients throughout bloom, etc.
Nitrates are stored in the fan leaves primarily, which is why they yellow as the N runs out. Outdoor growers often yellow with the season due to light and temperature, and this is environmentally inititated and hormones do the rest.

Feeding til the end has worked well for many many growers. It may or not work for you and it’s a big grey area where more research is required. It is NOT the only deciding factor in smoke quality. Feeding til the end came
about from the gargantuan agricultural industry that’s been around for hundreds of years, who don’t starve their flowers,
Fruits, vegetables, grain or pulse crops, trees or shrubs. Nature also doesn’t randomly starve their plants. Genetics, environment including balanced nutrition produce better quality fruit or flowers, which then attract more animals and insects to pollinate, better receive pollination, more effectively produce or carry the seeds away. And in our plant that means large and abundant calyxs, with dense and fat trichomes.

Click to expand...

Lowering N during bloom is a standard practice across the board in Ag, it is domestic users and people who own lawns using the most N every year. In fact up to 1/3 more than the entire US ag sector per year according to latest research.

Maintaining micros and K are useful for sure, as would be keeping up the carbohydrates in bloom. But people dont need to grow leaves in bloom, they need to set fruit and increase sugars and minerals value. Lowered N bloom feeds should be a rule this community practices because we are contributing to excessive N waste, even Organic growers. I refer you to the first dust bowl, an event caused by organic farmers.

Adding things alters the biome of biology, does this user know which inputs favor which classes of bacteria for example? EG how does compost differ to Kelp meal, or EWC or Woodchips, or green/ animal manures, chitin and so on, in terms of the life it supports in soil systems and so the downstream access for plants??
There is no organics without the biome and its CO2, at least not in the time frames required to satiate ever changing protein cascades which underpin life. Simply plants cant access many organics without help to convert to ions. So we add water from which we take elements, Oxygen or Hydrogen, and the CO2 of life is used where they form an acid which mineralises elements from the soil.

Life in soil and its healthy respiration need to be measured in organic systems, but this simple practice is ignored by the ignorant and so no one has the data to make informed choices about amending or not. Which one to add is pissing in the wind if we dont understand the rate of respiration in our soils as a base marker.

One thing is true, there is not enough research being done, but just as under educated farmers apply poison to there own land, and follow the ideas of a man (JV Liebig) whose own theories were changed in his own life time btw, so it is cannabis stoner growers also cant be arsed with details and put too much trust in people whose soul objective is to make money.