Water: The Most Essential Compound
- Thread starter doc111
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rene112388
Well-Known Member
I feel this has been mentioned in the 500 Or so messages but im sorry i havnt. The time...i have two questions and a referrance to a page numbrr would be awsome...what about rain water (ive heatd its tops)? And About leaving your contsiner open, if you had water that was acidic, woldnt the reducing the preddure by letting it out of the pipe effect the carbonic acid-CO2 equilibrium and raise the Ph?
Silky Shagsalot
Well-Known Member
anyone ever try using magnetized water???
Mader89
Active Member
Did you try the comparison?I've wondered about my water lately... we buy distilled water for our baby's bottle, but we use well water straight out the ground.... its not hardwater, but its that stinky eggwater, so i'm lead to believe that its high in sulfur.... been wanting to do a comparison and start using distilled water on one plant.... i might now
now you're the "water guru", and will get loads of questions like this.... have fun
jasonzbtzl
Active Member
I have a question about water and PH. I called my local water plant to find out what the PH is of the water coming out of the tap. The guy told me its around 7.8-7.9. My question is this, if it is put into Big City Hydro Coco does that drop the PH any? If so is there anyway short of testing runoff to determine what the PH my seedling are getting will be?
Jim Aise
New Member
Water is water right? Wrong. I see a lot of growers that have all this knowledge about nutrients and photoperiods but know very little about the water they use and that not all water is created equal and some water isn't very well suited for growing at all. I decided to do this thread to help educate growers about the water they use and why it's important to understand "The most essential compound".
What is "Hard Water"?
Perhaps you have on occassion noticed mineral deposits on your cooking dishes, or rings of insoluble soap scum in your bathtub. These are not signs of poor housekeeping, but are rather signs of hard water from the municipal water supply. Hard water is water that contains cations with a charge of +2, especially Ca2+ and Mg2+. These ions do not pose any health threat, but they can engage in reactions that leave insoluble mineral deposits. These deposits can make hard water unsuitable for many uses, and so a variety of means have been developed to "soften" hard water; i.e.,remove the calcium and magnesium ions.
Problems with Hard Water
Mineral deposits are formed by ionic reactions resulting in the formation of an insoluble precipitate. For example, when hard water is heated, Ca2+ ions react with bicarbonate (HCO3-) ions to form insoluble calcium carbonate (CaCO3), as shown in Equation 1.
(1)
This precipitate, known as scale, coats the vessels in which the water is heated, producing the mineral deposits on your cooking dishes. In small quantities, these deposits are not harmful, but they may be frustrating to try to clean. As these deposits build up, however, they reduce the efficiency of heat transfer, so food may not cook as evenly or quickly in pans with large scale deposits. More serious is the situation in which industrial-sized water boilers become coated with scale: the cost in heat-transfer efficiency can have a dramatic effect on your power bill! Furthermore, scale can accumulate on the inside of appliances, such as dishwashers, and pipes. As scale builds up, water flow is impeded, and hence appliance parts and pipes must be replaced more often than if Ca2+ and Mg2+ ions were not present in the water.
Some Strategies to "Soften" Hard Water
For large-scale municipal operations, a process known as the "lime-soda process" is used to remove Ca2+ and Mg2+ from the water supply. Ion-exchange reactions, similar to those you performed in this experiment, which result in the formation of an insoluble precipitate, are the basis of this process. The water is treated with a combination of slaked lime, Ca(OH)2, and soda ash, Na2CO3. Calcium precipitates as CaCO3, and magnesium precipitates as Mg(OH)2. These solids can be collected, thus removing the scale-forming cations from the water supply.
To see this process in more detail, let us consider the reaction for the precipitation of Mg(OH)2. Consultation of the solubility guidelines in the experiment reveals that the Ca(OH)2 of slaked lime is moderately soluble in water. Hence, it can dissociate in water to give one Ca2+ ion and two OH- ions for each unit of Ca(OH)2 that dissolves. The OH- ions react with Mg2+ ions in the water to form the insoluble precipitate. The Ca2+ ions are unaffected by this reaction, and so we do not include them in the net ionic reaction (Equation 2). They are removed by the separate reaction with CO32- ions from the soda ash.
(2)
Household water softeners typically use a different process, known as ion exchange. Ion-exchange devices consist of a bed of plastic (polymer) beads covalently bound to anion groups, such as -COO-. The negative charge of these anions is balanced by Na+ cations attached to them. When water containing Ca2+ and Mg2+ is passed through the ion exchanger, the Ca2+ and Mg2+ ions are more attracted to the anion groups than the Na+ ions. Hence, they replace the Na+ ions on the beads, and so the Na+ ions (which do not form scale) go into the water in their place.
Figure 1
When hard tapwater passes through the ion exchanger (left), the calcium ions from the tapwater replace the sodium ions in the ion exchanger. The softened water, containing sodium ions in place of calcium ions, can be collected for household use.
Unfortunately, many people with high blood pressure or other health problems must restrict their intake of sodium. Because water softened by this type of ion exchange contains many sodium ions, people with limited sodium intakes should avoid drinking water that has been softened this way. Several new techniques for softening water without introducing sodium ions are beginning to appear on the market.
2Hearts
Well-Known Member
My water is 7,8 to 8,0 with ppm of well under 100ppm and shows no ill effect when used in indoor soil. I like this thread as ph means more hydgrogen or oxygen alters ph, at a base level.
This thread did advise to find out my water quality by calling up. They dont use chloramides either and water plant straight from the tap, lucky me.
This thread did advise to find out my water quality by calling up. They dont use chloramides either and water plant straight from the tap, lucky me.
jasonzbtzl
Active Member
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
Great info...thanks!
2layz2p
Well-Known Member
Very informative, I love a good read for helpful things with my garden as I grow organically, did you have anything on rain water or did i pass over it...? i am running on very little sleep...but I was just thinking about all the contaminants that maybe in our rain water, acid's, salts, etc I don't want to kill off my microbes so I use RO water, I add cal/mag to the point of 120 ppm, I wonder if this is a good idea or not? I never really have any probs with mag deficiencies. Again thanks for a very informative / valuable read.
JRayV
Well-Known Member
I got this stuff called ClorAm-X to treat my tap water as an alternative to hauling around 5 gallon jugs.
http://www.hikariusa.com/solutions/waterconditioner/cloram-x/
http://www.hikariusa.com/solutions/waterconditioner/cloram-x/
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Dankfactory
Well-Known Member
Why, what a Sciency thread. I'm a saltwater reef aquaria fanatic and am likely even more active on the reef tank forums than I am on the grow boards. Point being that you simply can't keep a successful reef tank without knowing your municipal tap like the back of your hand and testing for a ludicrous number of elements and pollutants. I keep a monthly chart of test results and invested in a Spectrapure Maxcap UHE 100 GPD RODI to ensure my shit is sparkling when it exits that output line. That's for the aquariums.
With that said, I use straight up Ph'd untreated Hard water tap for my garden and have been doing so for years( in dirt )
My tap is loaded with Chloramines and everything else that is supposed to render flower quality to the briny depths of mediocrity.
I don't buy it. Unless you're growing DWC or Hydro where you lack bennies, chances are your water is absolutely fine straight out of the Tap. Don't take Cannabis cultivation too seriously
Its an extremely basic set of rules to adhere to in order to produce quality.
* noticed there's a few unquoted sources here which can be found:
http://www.chemistry.wustl.edu/~edudev/LabTutorials/Water/FreshWater/hardness.html
http://www.lenntech.com/library/reverse-osmosis/whatisro.htm
Some good info in the thread, but I think some are/were under the impression that this was a write up instead of some cutting and pasting with a few Bold/italics mixed in.
With that said, I use straight up Ph'd untreated Hard water tap for my garden and have been doing so for years( in dirt )
My tap is loaded with Chloramines and everything else that is supposed to render flower quality to the briny depths of mediocrity.
I don't buy it. Unless you're growing DWC or Hydro where you lack bennies, chances are your water is absolutely fine straight out of the Tap. Don't take Cannabis cultivation too seriously
Its an extremely basic set of rules to adhere to in order to produce quality.* noticed there's a few unquoted sources here which can be found:
http://www.chemistry.wustl.edu/~edudev/LabTutorials/Water/FreshWater/hardness.html
http://www.lenntech.com/library/reverse-osmosis/whatisro.htm
Some good info in the thread, but I think some are/were under the impression that this was a write up instead of some cutting and pasting with a few Bold/italics mixed in.
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jay57
Member
Amazing my man, nice job!Water is water right? Wrong. I see a lot of growers that have all this knowledge about nutrients and photoperiods but know very little about the water they use and that not all water is created equal and some water isn't very well suited for growing at all. I decided to do this thread to help educate growers about the water they use and why it's important to understand "The most essential compound".
What is "Hard Water"?
Perhaps you have on occassion noticed mineral deposits on your cooking dishes, or rings of insoluble soap scum in your bathtub. These are not signs of poor housekeeping, but are rather signs of hard water from the municipal water supply. Hard water is water that contains cations with a charge of +2, especially Ca2+ and Mg2+. These ions do not pose any health threat, but they can engage in reactions that leave insoluble mineral deposits. These deposits can make hard water unsuitable for many uses, and so a variety of means have been developed to "soften" hard water; i.e.,remove the calcium and magnesium ions.
Problems with Hard Water
Mineral deposits are formed by ionic reactions resulting in the formation of an insoluble precipitate. For example, when hard water is heated, Ca2+ ions react with bicarbonate (HCO3-) ions to form insoluble calcium carbonate (CaCO3), as shown in Equation 1.
(1)
This precipitate, known as scale, coats the vessels in which the water is heated, producing the mineral deposits on your cooking dishes. In small quantities, these deposits are not harmful, but they may be frustrating to try to clean. As these deposits build up, however, they reduce the efficiency of heat transfer, so food may not cook as evenly or quickly in pans with large scale deposits. More serious is the situation in which industrial-sized water boilers become coated with scale: the cost in heat-transfer efficiency can have a dramatic effect on your power bill! Furthermore, scale can accumulate on the inside of appliances, such as dishwashers, and pipes. As scale builds up, water flow is impeded, and hence appliance parts and pipes must be replaced more often than if Ca2+ and Mg2+ ions were not present in the water.
Some Strategies to "Soften" Hard Water
For large-scale municipal operations, a process known as the "lime-soda process" is used to remove Ca2+ and Mg2+ from the water supply. Ion-exchange reactions, similar to those you performed in this experiment, which result in the formation of an insoluble precipitate, are the basis of this process. The water is treated with a combination of slaked lime, Ca(OH)2, and soda ash, Na2CO3. Calcium precipitates as CaCO3, and magnesium precipitates as Mg(OH)2. These solids can be collected, thus removing the scale-forming cations from the water supply.
To see this process in more detail, let us consider the reaction for the precipitation of Mg(OH)2. Consultation of the solubility guidelines in the experiment reveals that the Ca(OH)2 of slaked lime is moderately soluble in water. Hence, it can dissociate in water to give one Ca2+ ion and two OH- ions for each unit of Ca(OH)2 that dissolves. The OH- ions react with Mg2+ ions in the water to form the insoluble precipitate. The Ca2+ ions are unaffected by this reaction, and so we do not include them in the net ionic reaction (Equation 2). They are removed by the separate reaction with CO32- ions from the soda ash.
(2)
Household water softeners typically use a different process, known as ion exchange. Ion-exchange devices consist of a bed of plastic (polymer) beads covalently bound to anion groups, such as -COO-. The negative charge of these anions is balanced by Na+ cations attached to them. When water containing Ca2+ and Mg2+ is passed through the ion exchanger, the Ca2+ and Mg2+ ions are more attracted to the anion groups than the Na+ ions. Hence, they replace the Na+ ions on the beads, and so the Na+ ions (which do not form scale) go into the water in their place.
Figure 1
When hard tapwater passes through the ion exchanger (left), the calcium ions from the tapwater replace the sodium ions in the ion exchanger. The softened water, containing sodium ions in place of calcium ions, can be collected for household use.
Unfortunately, many people with high blood pressure or other health problems must restrict their intake of sodium. Because water softened by this type of ion exchange contains many sodium ions, people with limited sodium intakes should avoid drinking water that has been softened this way. Several new techniques for softening water without introducing sodium ions are beginning to appear on the market.
sunny747
Well-Known Member
I just had a thought. have you guys ever seen the experiments where the scientist says nice things to the water and it forms beautiful patterns? I've never been convinced this is true because I can't create the affect myself, but it would be cool to try on our mj water
I don't understand why this thread was "stickied." Reduces the significance of stickied threads, IMO.
Gary Jarcia
Member
I had been boiling water for the longest time for lack of a better solution. Recently I added a reverse osmosis filter, and all my troubles are gone. My first DWC grow with boiled tap water was problematic to say the least. I live in Colorado and all the water here is runoff so it picks up pesticides, herbicides, chemicals, fertilizers, waste, & god knows what else. The water here is rediculously high in chloramine, damn near to the point of toxic. Not to mention that the salts in hard water can cause elephant foot and kill your shit.
Dankfactory
Well-Known Member
Apparently when you simply cut and paste documents someone else wrote, verbatim, and call it a " write up," the forums will go Wild with adoration.