Wattage or Lumens

Abiqua

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
cannabisweedPotNerd said:
That gives more light?

More light equals better growth for your plants?

What does Lumens do?

What does wattage do?
Click to expand...
Neither...PAR photosynthetic active radiation is measured in PPF [umol/s] or PPFD [umol/s/m^2]. PAR is the measure of light photons emitting from 400nm to 700nm.....

Lumens or Lux readings can be converted into PAR readings and hence then into PPF or PPFD....

Lumens/Lux are photometric, they are based on what the human eye sees based on its peak response around 580nm...

PAR is radiometric and accounts for all light betwen 400-700nm, some of which is not visible to the human eye, but the plant uses it, which means that plants use more than meets the eye....

Lumens are often used in short form to compare or estimate the brightness, especially with white light.....they often are skewed by a number of factors and can be misleading, especially when trying to measure actual light the plant is receiving

Wattage is just the sum total of electrical power [Volts x Amps = Watts]



Learning the diff between photometric/radiometric and a McKee Plant Usage chart [google it], should set you straight....but you gotta go out and read it vs. let some one palm feed it to you :peace:
 
SPLFreak808

SPLFreak808

Well-Known Member
cannabisweedPotNerd said:
So what gives light?
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Light is what we see. Radioactive waves within a certain spectrum is visable to the human ete. The entire electromagnetic spectrum cannot be seen by the human eye, only a portion can be seen. Anything with enough electromagnectic waste will produce some type of radiowave visible or not (example) you cannot see electromagnetic waves emitted by you're ballast, but you can see the waves emitted by you're light bulb.
 
latewood

latewood

Active Member
Either way. More wattage generally means more lumens, and deeper light penetration for your plants. :)
 
bluntmassa1

bluntmassa1

Well-Known Member
cannabisweedPotNerd said:
That gives more light?

More light equals better growth for your plants?

What does Lumens do?

What does wattage do?
Click to expand...
Wattage makes a difference but lumens, 1,000 watt HPS Lumatek bulb gives 145,000 lumens and 1,000 watt HPS Digilux gives 155,000 lumens the Digilux throws more light not a whole lot though. But then you got spectrum which plays a big role so I mix it up a bit.

But wattage means nothing CFL's, incandescent etc. really suck for light output compared to HPS per watt some claim LED's are getting their but I'm skeptical the price alone if I'm not getting at least 1.5 extra grams per watt I'm set.

Also a watt is how much electricity it uses nothing to do with light output your TV probably uses 400-600 watts.
 
SPLFreak808

SPLFreak808

Well-Known Member
bluntmassa1 said:
Wattage makes a difference but lumens, 1,000 watt HPS Lumatek bulb gives 145,000 lumens and 1,000 watt HPS Digilux gives 155,000 lumens the Digilux throws more light not a whole lot though. But then you got spectrum which plays a big role so I mix it up a bit.

But wattage means nothing CFL's, incandescent etc. really suck for light output compared to HPS per watt some claim LED's are getting their but I'm skeptical the price alone if I'm not getting at least 1.5 extra grams per watt I'm set.

Also a watt is how much electricity it uses nothing to do with light output your TV probably uses 400-600 watts.
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a 400w TV is old as fuck lol. But yeah i hope he gets you're point. A modern computer is about 400w. A gaming computer can be up towards 1.5kw
 
TheChemist77

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
alot of grow books say u need 50 watts per square foot of light.. so i get the question, but i just use this simple chart


400 watt hps/mh = 3ftx3ft
600 watt hps/mh= 4ft x 4ft
1k hps/mh= 5ftx 5ft

to me thats all u need to know as cfl,s are only good for supplimental side/under lighting and clones.
led, may be the way of the future but too expensive and still improving so no buy today or this year or next even.. ill wait till they are all they can be and prices come down..
so hps and mh have served the test of time for growers, shit i still have 20 year old magnetic ballasts that still work.. im not using them but still..
 
B

bluerock

Active Member
Since you are not going to be designing light bulbs, you don't need to worry about PAR, PPF, or PPFD. All commercially available HID lighting will grow plants just fine. Get the highest intensity light (currently HPS DE) you can for your space. What you need to be more concerned about is what to do with the heat generated from whatever light you go with.
 
StinkBud

StinkBud

Well-Known Member
Abiqua said:
Lumens are often used in short form to compare or estimate the brightness, especially with white light.....they often are skewed by a number of factors and can be misleading, especially when trying to measure actual light the plant is receiving
Click to expand...
This is very important (and smart). What he's saying is... there is more involved with light than just measuring Watts or lumens. This is one of the most important concepts to understand.

Distance is also critical. The closer the bulb is to the plant, the more light the plant will receive. It's really quite shocking when you find out how much light is lost each foot of distance. So what's this all mean? Basically a 600W lamp right on top of the plants is better than a 1000W far away. This is why I run air cooled lights. It lets me put the light right on top of the canopy without burning the plants.

Color spectrum is also critical. In theory you could use a 1000W green bulb but the plant would grow very slow, if at all. That's why you can get away with just red and blue LEDs. UV is also said to have a factor in THC production. Many swear that UV rays increase potency.

Let's talk light and grams per watt... I personally don't give a fuck about grams per watt. Let me explain. Here in the NW each 1000W light costs $27 dollars a month to run 12/12. When I was running two 1000W lights I'd pull a pound per system for a total of around 3lbs. When I added another light it went up to 20oz per rack. Now granted adding that extra light reduced my grams-per-watt but in increased my harvest 4oz. per rack or 12oz. total. So if an additional 12oz of herb costs me a whopping $60 who cares if it fucks up my grams-per-watt. Does that make sense?

Numbers will fuck with you! Measurements will fuck with you! People that measure things too much are called measurebators. Don't be a measurebator...
 
TheChemist77

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
StinkBud said:
This is very important (and smart). What he's saying is... there is more involved with light than just measuring Watts or lumens. This is one of the most important concepts to understand.

Distance is also critical. The closer the bulb is to the plant, the more light the plant will receive. It's really quite shocking when you find out how much light is lost each foot of distance. So what's this all mean? Basically a 600W lamp right on top of the plants is better than a 1000W far away. This is why I run air cooled lights. It lets me put the light right on top of the canopy without burning the plants.

Color spectrum is also critical. In theory you could use a 1000W green bulb but the plant would grow very slow, if at all. That's why you can get away with just red and blue LEDs. UV is also said to have a factor in THC production. Many swear that UV rays increase potency.

Let's talk light and grams per watt... I personally don't give a fuck about grams per watt. Let me explain. Here in the NW each 1000W light costs $27 dollars a month to run 12/12. When I was running two 1000W lights I'd pull a pound per system for a total of around 3lbs. When I added another light it went up to 20oz per rack. Now granted adding that extra light reduced my grams-per-watt but in increased my harvest 4oz. per rack or 12oz. total. So if an additional 12oz of herb costs me a whopping $60 who cares if it fucks up my grams-per-watt. Does that make sense?

Numbers will fuck with you! Measurements will fuck with you! People that measure things too much are called measurebators. Don't be a measurebator...
Click to expand...
i also use air cooled reflectors,, but wonder if i swiched to open hoods if my yields would be higher?? of course the heat would be a problem and of cource id have to rais the lights..i used to use open hood 400's but in my new house my area is bigger and i have plenty of ventilation,,so i switched to 2 600's air cooled..
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
StinkBud said:
This is very important (and smart). What he's saying is... there is more involved with light than just measuring Watts or lumens. This is one of the most important concepts to understand.

Distance is also critical. The closer the bulb is to the plant, the more light the plant will receive. It's really quite shocking when you find out how much light is lost each foot of distance. So what's this all mean? Basically a 600W lamp right on top of the plants is better than a 1000W far away. This is why I run air cooled lights. It lets me put the light right on top of the canopy without burning the plants.

Color spectrum is also critical. In theory you could use a 1000W green bulb but the plant would grow very slow, if at all. That's why you can get away with just red and blue LEDs. UV is also said to have a factor in THC production. Many swear that UV rays increase potency.

Let's talk light and grams per watt... I personally don't give a fuck about grams per watt. Let me explain. Here in the NW each 1000W light costs $27 dollars a month to run 12/12. When I was running two 1000W lights I'd pull a pound per system for a total of around 3lbs. When I added another light it went up to 20oz per rack. Now granted adding that extra light reduced my grams-per-watt but in increased my harvest 4oz. per rack or 12oz. total. So if an additional 12oz of herb costs me a whopping $60 who cares if it fucks up my grams-per-watt. Does that make sense?

Numbers will fuck with you! Measurements will fuck with you! People that measure things too much are called measurebators. Don't be a measurebator...
Click to expand...
I don't think that's what @Abiqua was saying at all. I think he was being very specific about his argument, not generally saying there are multiple variables to be looked at. His argument was specifically that lumens are not a good measure of how many photons the light actually emits per watt and that umol/J of energy dissipated should be used instead. Nothing more and nothing less.

Distance is actually not crucial, and I not what he was arguing. What makes a good lamp is exactly what Abiqua was touching on. You're actually incorrect when you say that light is lost when distance is increased. The attenuation of light through only 1 foot of air is negligible. Instead, you cover a larger footprint with light. You do not reduce the total amount of light. This is one of the biggest misconceptions of lighting perpetuated on weed forums.

Color spectrum is also very insignificant when compared to total PPF and efficiency, and people generally think they know a lot more about the effects of a given spectrum than they really know. That being said, you actually can't get away with just red and blue leds and expect to grow 3 foot plants. It's not possible, and without first hand experience doing this, you shouldn't be making these types of claims. It's a myth experienced LED growers have been trying to clear up for years now.

Then you go talking about how grams per watt doesn't matter to you? Why do you act like this is in agreement with anything abiqua said?
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Watts is a measure of power. It is not a measure of electric power only, but a measure of power in general.

Each photon is a discrete packet of energy. That means that a stream of photons is energy/time which is power. The amount of watts of light power you get between 400-700nm for each watt of electric power you put in is called efficiency.

If you have a 50% efficient grow lamp, it will generate 0.5W of photosynthetically active radiation (PAR) for every 1W of electric power you put in.

Watts do matter, but it's the watts of radiation that matter, not the watts of dissipated electricity. Lumens are just radiant watts weighted by the luminous curve. The number is weighted toward human vision. That makes lumens a poor value for measuring the power output by a lamp, and the PPF output. Lumens is actually an arbitrary unit meaningless for growing plants, although if SPD is the same for 2 lamps, the one with higher lumen output will also have more radiant output and more umol/s output..
 
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StinkBud

StinkBud

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
I don't think that's what @Abiqua
Distance is actually not crucial, and I not what he was arguing. What makes a good lamp is exactly what Abiqua was touching on. You're actually incorrect when you say that light is lost when distance is increased. The attenuation of light through only 1 foot of air is negligible. Instead, you cover a larger footprint with light. You do not reduce the total amount of light. This is one of the biggest misconceptions of lighting perpetuated on weed forums.
Click to expand...
This is what Abiqua said, "Lumens are often used in short form to compare or estimate the brightness, especially with white light.....they often are skewed by a number of factors and can be misleading, especially when trying to measure actual light the plant is receiving"

I probably have my head up my ass cause I thunk what I was saying is there are a lot of factors that come into play when it comes to big fancy city boy lights. Distance being one of those. Now I went ahead and added that there distance part myself. I should have got prescription from the teacher but fuck it! And you're right, it's not that light is attenuated, it's that it's "spread out more yonder like" as us hillbillies like to say. I kind of remember some formula for it but let's just say after a few too many Dead concerts... Maybe if I were to axe my daddy/uncle he might be able to splain that there Newton fella's law of universal gravitation thingamajig to me.

Here's a good one... Watt the Fuck!
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
StinkBud said:
I sorta understand distance is not what he was arguing but the truth is I put a whole shitload of bubble hash on top of some insane Kosher Kush and I think I may have regressed a tad bit.... I get a ramblin' and the next thing I know I forgot what the hell the thread started out as. One minute someone talking about PARS and I'm like why the fuck are you talking about golf? I mean at least I'm talking about light!

I thunk what I was saying is there are a lot of factors that come into play when it comes to big fancy city boy lights. Distance being one of those. And you're right, it's not that light is attenuated, it's that it's "spread out more yonder like" as us hillbillies like to say. I kind of remember some formula for it but let's just say after a few too many Dead concerts... Maybe if I were to axe my daddy/uncle he might be able to splain that there Newton fella's law of universal gravitation thingamajig to me.

Here's a good one... Watt the Fuck!
Click to expand...
Haha, sorry. To be honest, I should probably smoke a bit more in the mornings before posting.
 
Abiqua

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
StinkBud said:
This is what Abiqua said, "Lumens are often used in short form to compare or estimate the brightness, especially with white light.....they often are skewed by a number of factors and can be misleading, especially when trying to measure actual light the plant is receiving"

I probably have my head up my ass cause I thunk what I was saying is there are a lot of factors that come into play when it comes to big fancy city boy lights. Distance being one of those. Now I went ahead and added that there distance part myself. I should have got prescription from the teacher but fuck it! And you're right, it's not that light is attenuated, it's that it's "spread out more yonder like" as us hillbillies like to say. I kind of remember some formula for it but let's just say after a few too many Dead concerts... Maybe if I were to axe my daddy/uncle he might be able to splain that there Newton fella's law of universal gravitation thingamajig to me.

Here's a good one... Watt the Fuck!
Click to expand...
Any light source, not just the bigfancypants' "ones"......:leaf:

Dude, I might be the 1st person from my family to get a BS or higher degree in my family...but lets be absolutely clear of hillbilly...My Family is from either the Appalachians [Cherokee] or the Ozarks...thats its....I am a running 200 year old joke :)


This "theory" is applied to any source of light, whether its a campfire, a lazer, an HID light, an LED light, a CFL light.....its ALL the same....its just that lots of terms are thrown out to confuse and AWE....

Blue is more efficient than red...if you have equal amounts of lumens in blue and red, in theory, the blue will have more useable plant light than the red beams....BUT you have to have data from the LIGHT SOURCE MANUFACTURER to square away most of this shit....

Go google
ppf
ppfd
photometric
radiometric
lumens
lux
CRI

No one can help you, but you, get a little better understanding of some of these concepts before stomping around in the forest with just a torch....:peace:
 
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