Weird Warping of Leaves

gogogogogogo

gogogogogogo

Well-Known Member
Hey all, I've noticed this pretty pronounced problem throughout all of my plants during all stages of their growth, flowering and veg. Leaves will curl and twist and warp in random ways. Temps in my flowering room get as high as 80 and temps outside in the veg area are around 66-72, they're being fed with botanicare but the problem existed before when using earth juice and even still with super soil. Water PH is always 6.5 and soil PH ranges from 6.6-7.0.

They're all from clones, a couple different phenos of Blue Dream. I know that the four pictures in veg show some various problems with the plants, they suffered from an overfeeding and fungus gnat infestation prior to transplanting and are about 2 weeks old from going into soil.

Scratching my head here :wall:
 

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HydroRed

HydroRed

Well-Known Member
gogogogogogo said:
Hey all, I've noticed this pretty pronounced problem throughout all of my plants during all stages of their growth, flowering and veg. Leaves will curl and twist and warp in random ways. Temps in my flowering room get as high as 80 and temps outside in the veg area are around 66-72, they're being fed with botanicare but the problem existed before when using earth juice and even still with super soil. Water PH is always 6.5 and soil PH ranges from 6.6-7.0.

They're all from clones, a couple different phenos of Blue Dream. I know that the four pictures in veg show some various problems with the plants, they suffered from an overfeeding and fungus gnat infestation prior to transplanting and are about 2 weeks old from going into soil.

Scratching my head here :wall:
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Looks like you might have a bug problem too looking at the pics real close. Check your leaves real good with a scope..
 
gogogogogogo

gogogogogogo

Well-Known Member
HydroRed said:
Any humidity issues in the room? Have they been sprayed with anything?
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Humidity is 40-50%, I've got to run a humidifier or it drops down to 20-30%. These haven't been sprayed but their mommas received regular foliar treatments of seaweed extract diluted per the instructions. I stopped for fear of the water droplets causing burning from the light, as well as having to clean off the film that the solution leaves on the leaves.

HydroRed said:
Looks like you might have a bug problem too looking at the pics real close. Check your leaves real good with a scope..
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Bug problems :shock::shock::shock: where do you see that?
 
gogogogogogo

gogogogogogo

Well-Known Member
BM9AGS said:
It happens from time to time. Even in nature.
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I certainly agree that it happens from time to time, but the widespread prevalence between all of my plants leads me to believe something may be amiss. I might pop a bean in my next rotation to see if it's a clone problem.
 
BM9AGS

BM9AGS

Well-Known Member
By pics you're not 100% health so.....they're gonna let you know. I'd veg until it's sorted. Could have all stemmed from F-gnats.
 
gogogogogogo

gogogogogogo

Well-Known Member
BM9AGS said:
By pics you're not 100% health so.....they're gonna let you know. I'd veg until it's sorted. Could have all stemmed from F-gnats.
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Yeah, it was a bad infestation immediately after transplant to one-gallon smart pots. I transplanted them into a new medium which I mixed neem cake into, you can smell the stuff even after it was mixed in so hopefully it'll deter any more gnat problems. The reason I think the curling isn't related though is my flowering plants never had fungus gnat problems, which leads me to believe the curling is a separate problem.
 
BM9AGS

BM9AGS

Well-Known Member
Pic 3 shows deficiency. Other than N being lower than what I prefer I'd personally just add some N and give it another week. The gnats if bad will fuck up roots which fuck up the plants uptake and then I'd be weary of compensating what I'm assuming is a nuts problem with root problem then which may lead to toxicity if you play the "I'll try this different feeding" game we've all played.

I'd also let the soil dry the fuck out until the plant started looking limpish and the pot was light. Just because I hate gnats and your leaves look overwatered
 
Jimdamick

Jimdamick

Well-Known Member
Definitely not fungus gnats, as they really only affect new plants around the stem, like 2 week old plant stems can be affected by the larvae as they will damage the plants stalk where it leaves the soil (check that by scraping just under the soil around the stem, because the larvae will eat the stem there). Once you get a decent root system going, they cant really affect the root ball that much. Get sticky traps to reduce the number of the annoying little bastards, but they reproduce rapidly, so once you got them, it is pretty much impossible to get rid of them. You can top dress the soil with sand, as that will help to stop them from laying eggs. Your definatly N deficient, so bump that up, say by using Calmag + (use it anyway), which contains extra N, and will give the plant a boost. Usually twists are genetics, or environment, such a excessive heat Your PH is pretty good, but if your running high, which you are, make sure you use a low PH number,in your water say around 6.0 to compensate or your headed for a lockout. Advanced Nutrients makes a PH stable food that might help, but soil is usually high anyway and there is not really much to be done. Hydrated lime (mix with water) can be added to help stabilize the soil Living soil is pretty stable, so adding microorganisms is a good idea (Voodoo Juice also by AN is a good source)
Any, your plants generally look good except the low N, and I wouldn't really worry about it. Good luck
 
gogogogogogo

gogogogogogo

Well-Known Member
BM9AGS said:
Pic 3 shows deficiency. Other than N being lower than what I prefer I'd personally just add some N and give it another week. The gnats if bad will fuck up roots which fuck up the plants uptake and then I'd be weary of compensating what I'm assuming is a nuts problem with root problem then which may lead to toxicity if you play the "I'll try this different feeding" game we've all played.

I'd also let the soil dry the fuck out until the plant started looking limpish and the pot was light. Just because I hate gnats and your leaves look overwatered
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if it's a N def, I fed them twice with about 50% of recommended dosage and they're only two-week old clones since transplant, to me, it seemed to get worse after the second feeding. I think I'll lay off on the nutrients, the soil has azomite, mycorrhizal, neem cake (nitrogen), and humic acid in it so they should have enough to straighten themselves out.

Dr.Nick Riviera said:
I'm gonna bet you're using distilled water???
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No sir, straight out the tap. Comes out at about 6.6, nutrients drop it to 3-4, I PH to 6.5.

Jimdamick said:
Definitely not fungus gnats, as they really only affect new plants around the stem, like 2 week old plant stems can be affected by the larvae as they will damage the plants stalk where it leaves the soil (check that by scraping just under the soil around the stem, because the larvae will eat the stem there). Once you get a decent root system going, they cant really affect the root ball that much. Get sticky traps to reduce the number of the annoying little bastards, but they reproduce rapidly, so once you got them, it is pretty much impossible to get rid of them. You can top dress the soil with sand, as that will help to stop them from laying eggs. Your definatly N deficient, so bump that up, say by using Calmag + (use it anyway), which contains extra N, and will give the plant a boost. Usually twists are genetics, or environment, such a excessive heat Your PH is pretty good, but if your running high, which you are, make sure you use a low PH number,in your water say around 6.0 to compensate or your headed for a lockout. Advanced Nutrients makes a PH stable food that might help, but soil is usually high anyway and there is not really much to be done. Hydrated lime (mix with water) can be added to help stabilize the soil Living soil is pretty stable, so adding microorganisms is a good idea (Voodoo Juice also by AN is a good source)
Any, your plants generally look good except the low N, and I wouldn't really worry about it. Good luck
Click to expand...
I wish I had taken a picture of my sticky traps, they literally had every square inch covered. Seems their population has died down, the neem cake should help prevent further infestations. I've had luck with mosquito dunks ground up into powder and placed as a top dressing before watering, but unfortunately, everyone here in Maine just pulled them for the winter. I might try using a middle of the road PH as you said, as I've often wondered about that. I've read that due to microbial activity, soil PH will virtually always end up right around 7.0, and as far as I've seen different mixes of soil tend to be right on the mark there

. I'm definitely going for a living soil, and have read a bit about Voodoo Juice which I might check out. The nutrients I use from botanicare are all organic I believe except for the hydroplex and bud sweetener I'm trying out, I'm new to their line but so far my flowering plants seem to be doing well, only took about 6 days for them to start flowering.
 
D

Dr.Nick Riviera

Well-Known Member
gogogogogogo said:
I'm not sure if it's a N def, I fed them twice with about 50% of recommended dosage and they're only two-week old clones since transplant, to me, it seemed to get worse after the second feeding. I think I'll lay off on the nutrients, the soil has azomite, mycorrhizal, neem cake (nitrogen), and humic acid in it so they should have enough to straighten themselves out.



No sir, straight out the tap. Comes out at about 6.6, nutrients drop it to 3-4, I PH to 6.5.



I wish I had taken a picture of my sticky traps, they literally had every square inch covered. Seems their population has died down, the neem cake should help prevent further infestations. I've had luck with mosquito dunks ground up into powder and placed as a top dressing before watering, but unfortunately, everyone here in Maine just pulled them for the winter. I might try using a middle of the road PH as you said, as I've often wondered about that. I've read that due to microbial activity, soil PH will virtually always end up right around 7.0, and as far as I've seen different mixes of soil tend to be right on the mark there

. I'm definitely going for a living soil, and have read a bit about Voodoo Juice which I might check out. The nutrients I use from botanicare are all organic I believe except for the hydroplex and bud sweetener I'm trying out, I'm new to their line but so far my flowering plants seem to be doing well, only took about 6 days for them to start flowering.
Click to expand...
if you want a true living soil, you need to drop the bottled nutes. You probably have way to much going on with all the organic additives and bottled nutes. Just because the bottle says it's organic,does not make it so, it just means some stuff was derived from organic materials at a percentage that met the qualifications.
 
gogogogogogo

gogogogogogo

Well-Known Member
Dr.Nick Riviera said:
if you want a true living soil, you need to drop the bottled nutes. You probably have way to much going on with all the organic additives and bottled nutes. Just because the bottle says it's organic,does not make it so, it just means some stuff was derived from organic materials at a percentage that met the qualifications.
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I feel you, I tried the super soil and didn't have great results. Could have been user error, who knows, too many variables! I also recognize that to most organic growers, super soil was just a jumping off point.

While you're certainly right about the bottled nutrients, I've seen incredible results through the use of products like botanicare, epsoma and earth juice. Earth juice didn't seem to be compatible as an additive to my super soil, but I might try it again as I've had impressive results a few years back with it.
 
D

Dr.Nick Riviera

Well-Known Member
gogogogogogo said:
I feel you, I tried the super soil and didn't have great results. Could have been user error, who knows, too many variables! I also recognize that to most organic growers, super soil was just a jumping off point.

While you're certainly right about the bottled nutrients, I've seen incredible results through the use of products like botanicare, epsoma and earth juice. Earth juice didn't seem to be compatible as an additive to my super soil, but I might try it again as I've had impressive results a few years back with it.
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what I'm getting at is, if you want to use bottled nutes and maximize their use, use an inert medium, if you want to do a living soil, then use soil, but learn how to use organic materials with it. just my 2cents
 
gogogogogogo

gogogogogogo

Well-Known Member
Dr.Nick Riviera said:
what I'm getting at is, if you want to use bottled nutes and maximize their use, use an inert medium, if you want to do a living soil, then use soil, but learn how to use organic materials with it. just my 2cents
Click to expand...
No, I definitely concur with you on that. Having just gotten back into growing throughout the last six months or so, I've come to the same conclusion. Previously, I grew in pro-mix with lime and perlite using Earth Juice and my results were amazing, getting a little over a half pound on my second grow under a 400w with one plant. I've been struggling to get much more than an ounce per plant under a 600 since trying the super soil route... I guess it's time to shift back to my tried and true methods.
 
gogogogogogo

gogogogogogo

Well-Known Member
As I suspected, a little nute burn has reared its head on the tips, but other than that they're looking happier than ever since the transplant! It's been several days now and no fungus gnats, so the neem cake sure seems to work, I highly recommend it to anyone, and it's a good source of nitrogen to boot. I'm sure as they establish a bigger root system the nutrient burn will dissipate and they'll take off as they enter week 3. Dumping the super soil and back to an inert pro mix amended with a few essentials like the humic acid and azomite. I might try more perlite next time I mix some soil, maybe 30-40%? What ratio do some of you guys use with pro mix?
 
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