Well N A, The Tankless Water Heater is the Bomb!

lol yeah I'd hate to waste that much water. I don't pay for water, but wouldn't want to have my landlord knockin on my door either wonderin why the bill is so high..

Soooo....hmm decisions, maybe I will just go with a bottled co2 tank then.. I can get a 20lb tank filled for 10 bucks. My room is 12x10x9. I can get a bottle and reg for around 200 bucks. The ppm4 I can get for around 200 as well. If I get the marey water heater its 140+D Cell batteries+Res+Pump+Propane tank..

UP to you obviously but let me just say that a 20lb tank in that room will last about 5 days top at 1500.

Bottled and tank really cost about the same initially but the tank will cost most in the long run.

guy incognito said:

Natural gas is mostly methane which is CH4. It is priced by the thousand cubic feet for usually around $11 for residential. 1,000 cubic feet gives you 44.6 lbs of natural gas.

(35.31 cubic feet in 1 cubic meter
1000 Liters in 1 cubic meter
one mole of gas at ideal conditions occupies 22.4 L
Methane has a molecular weight of 16
453.6 grams per pound.)

One methane molecule gives you one co2 molecule. The molecular wt of methane and co2 are 16 and 44 respectively. So every unit of natural gas turns into 44/16 units of co2.

44.6 lbs of NG (for about $11) turns into 122.6 lbs of CO2

Propane is C3H8 with a molecular wt of 44 and turns into 3 CO2 molecules each at 44. So each unit of propane turns into 3 units of CO2. 122.6 lbs of CO2 would require 40.87 lbs of propane, or about 2 normal bbq tank fulls (probably $30-40).

122.6 lbs of CO2 would require 122.6 lbs of compressed CO2, or about 6 tank fulls from a 20-lb tank. No idea what a 20 lb fill up of CO2 costs but its probably a lot more than $2.

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Just in case anyone missed it we did a price break down earlier in the thread to show how much it would cost to operate.

Propane is 3-4X more expensive to operate than NG
compressed co2 is about 9X more expensive to operate than NG.

It's hard to get an exact gauge on how much NG you are using. I would say my gas bill has increased anywhere from $3-10/mo for a room thats about 20x10x7.

Another benny of propane over bottled is the convenience of swaping your tank at 2:00 at a convenience store. sucks when your co2 runs out and you have to wait 20 hours to get it turned around.

another benie of NG is that you never ever run out of it and its even cheaper still. You will never ever have to leave your house!! You can play world of warcraft, masturbate, and eat Doritos and hot pockets until your an old man!!

Referenced this thread 100 times before finally setting up my Marey co2 gen. It is the shit. Mounted it on the outside wall with a duct going in, can't imagine using anything else. I ordered a solenoid from China and it took a month to finally get. In a pinch I realized I could use this from lowes: http://www.lowes.com:80/pd_20245-147-CP-075_0__?ipTrail=71.238.52.57&catalogId=&productId=1057907&pl=1&selectedLocalStoreBeanArray=[com.lowes.commerce.storelocator.beans.LocatorStoreBean@ef60ef6]&currentURL=/pl__0__s?Ntt=Rain+bird&storeNumber=2512&Ntt=Rain+bird&langId=-1&errorURL=UserAccountView&storeId=10151

There were versions of it as cheap as like $12 but I got the $16 one for the fuck of it. I did have to but some cheap brass garden hose adapters, though I would bet there is some sort of compatible sprinkler tubing I could have just used had I done more research. I powered it with an ac adapter the at wason a shelf nearby, however you could probabbly cut and attach any matching 24v adapter u have around the house. That plugged into a cap ppm3 I got on clearance and my co2 is rocking out. On a side note the cap ppm3 works, but u should spend a little money on something better. Mine froze up once and I came home to a burning hot water heater and 9000 ppm co2 in my room. But for 1/2 price I had to buy it.

I know the thread is old but the info is awesome. Had to give some props, there were no more reps or likes to give.

Awesome man! Glad to hear it worked out. The only real issue I had with my el cheapo brand was the diaphragm went bad but the guy who sold it sent me a free, newly designed one.

So it sounds like your tapped right into your home supply? Or a well?

Just set up my trusty old Marey 5l. Had it for a couple of years but only used it one round. Just put out too much too fast for my space. I am now moved into a new 8 x 11 room with 8ft ceilings. My tank was empty when I got in tonight, so I did a make shift setup to get me up and running. Damn it's nice. Already have a 100 gallon chilled rez from my old watercooled light setup so just had to re-route some hoses. i am running 1000 ppm with a 200 ppm dead band. I still get about 200 ppm overshoot even with it set to summer and the temp at the lowest setting.

Re-plumbed everything after punching a hole through the wall for the hoses. Using that nice US made Goodyear 1/2" rubber hose. Wow what a difference using this in a proper size room. Actually everything in my new room is working better. My old box just didn't have enough cubic feet too support the growth I desired.

System is working killer. I'm using a dual sensor telaire that is made for industrial environments. Running at 1000ppm with a 200 ppm dead band. I have about 30 gallons in the rez and it is barely getting warm. Probably won't need my chiller. I am running my old POS harbor freight pump. It is working great but I know it won't last. I'll be ordering a shureflo tomorrow.

what an awsome way to do Co2. I'll definately upgrade to NG, I have an outlet about 10 feet from my burner so it will be easy enough. Prob wait until this marey wears out first.

Good to hear!! I would look into the pump I have linked above if yours takes a crap. Its an external pump which is nice as you can just mount in on the wall and it is self priming. As I stated in a previous post, my water heater created too much back pressure and that was causing the pump to work harder and die waaaaaay to early. (the brushes were burning out). Putting a T into the hose downstream of the pump with a valve in it (run of the mill garden hose shut off) really took the back pressure off the pump, you can hear the difference in terms of how hard the system is working. Next to my DIY dehumidifier chiller, using the water heater for CO2 production is one of the coolest things in my grow room. No tanks, no bullshit, no hassle.

Yea, I've been watching this thread since the beginning. I already had mine on the shelf but always wanted to try using it again. My pump never ran it properly back in then, had to use the slowest flow and the coolest setting. There's been one ongoing problem with these setups, and they are almost all pump pressure related. I did a ton of research on pumps and what I came up with would cost way more and likely still not be right! So I decided to copy your success, the shureflo is perfectly suited to this application and will be purchased this week.

What is your dehumidifier chiller?

Finally got my new grow room built and set up. Same set up as before, just a new location. I am using the pump you recommended for the last week no issues.

This thread has been a vault of knowledge! So glad I found this before droppin down on a Hydrogen Pro. Getting ready to order my Aquah 6L this week.

Question... how hard is it to wire it to plug into an outlet? To my knowledge it does not come ready for outlet use.

nixusr said:

This thread has been a vault of knowledge! So glad I found this before droppin down on a Hydrogen Pro. Getting ready to order my Aquah 6L this week.

Question... how hard is it to wire it to plug into an outlet? To my knowledge it does not come ready for outlet use.

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The Aquah 6L does not plug into an outlet. It used D batteries to ignite gas when needed. You will need a separate water pump to get water to the unit. And it is super easy to wire a plug onto a pump. Just get an extension cord (not the kind with no ground like a lamp, get the one with a grounding plug so it has 3 prongs (ie 3 wires)) and cut the female plug off. The pump wiring and the inside of the extension cord will use universal color coding. Just connect black to black, white to white, and green to green. Twist the wires together in the same direction you would screw them (ie line both bare wires up in the same direction, then grip them and twist them so they get twisted together. Then add a wire nut and twist it down. Use electrical tape to cover any expose wire. Use electrical tape to tape the whole thing together and to secure it. If there is any movement you want the stress to be on some electrical tape and not on the actual connection.

My Marey5L finally crapped out. Just recd an aquaking 6l off of ebay for 115 shipped. Nice looking unit, internally pretty much the same as the marey unit.

guy incognito said:

The Aquah 6L does not plug into an outlet. It used D batteries to ignite gas when needed. You will need a separate water pump to get water to the unit. And it is super easy to wire a plug onto a pump. Just get an extension cord (not the kind with no ground like a lamp, get the one with a grounding plug so it has 3 prongs (ie 3 wires)) and cut the female plug off. The pump wiring and the inside of the extension cord will use universal color coding. Just connect black to black, white to white, and green to green. Twist the wires together in the same direction you would screw them (ie line both bare wires up in the same direction, then grip them and twist them so they get twisted together. Then add a wire nut and twist it down. Use electrical tape to cover any expose wire. Use electrical tape to tape the whole thing together and to secure it. If there is any movement you want the stress to be on some electrical tape and not on the actual connection.

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I dont know why I didnt get an email alert that you replied back but thanks man for the walk through. I'm buying the Shureflo pump that was recommended in this thread in a week. So using your steps I should have it wired once I get it.

I'm still rocking my shureflow after 2 months.

I attempted to seal this room completely to mitigate the smell. The plan was to have it 100% sealed off. I know it's not 100%, but it's significantly better than my previous grow. Approximately the same volume as my last grow, but now the pump only turns on once every 3-4 hours instead of every 20 minutes. I am using a 55 gallon barrel as a resevoir, and keeping my room at 87*F during lights on. The barrel never reaches room temperature.

So anyone having trouble with high water temps, trying sealing your room better, so the heater operates less often. Not only will running only 20% as often save electricity and natural gas, but it will prolong the life of the pump and possibly the heater. Operating the pump with cooler water will certainly prolong the life span too.

guy incognito said:

I'm still rocking my shureflow after 2 months.

I attempted to seal this room completely to mitigate the smell. The plan was to have it 100% sealed off. I know it's not 100%, but it's significantly better than my previous grow. Approximately the same volume as my last grow, but now the pump only turns on once every 3-4 hours instead of every 20 minutes. I am using a 55 gallon barrel as a resevoir, and keeping my room at 87*F during lights on. The barrel never reaches room temperature.

So anyone having trouble with high water temps, trying sealing your room better, so the heater operates less often. Not only will running only 20% as often save electricity and natural gas, but it will prolong the life of the pump and possibly the heater. Operating the pump with cooler water will certainly prolong the life span too.

Click to expand...

Good to hear the shureflo pump is still holding up. I just got mine but have yet to wire it up and install it. My room is just about sealed completely just waiting to get a 55gal food grade barrel and a co2 controller. You said your pump runs every 3-4 hours... how big is your room and what do you have your ppm ranges set to?

My room is 11x11x7 and sealed pretty dam good except for the door that is open for now until I get all the co2 stuff installed and ready.

Hey gang, my shureflow is still rocking it but I did mention that I installed a t with an outlet and flow control (garden hose shut off thing). So basically when my pump turns on, MOST of the water flows to the heater but SOME of the water flows out the T and into the reservoir. The result is that the pump does not have to work as hard. When I burned out my second shureflow the guy asked me what I was doing and I told him (its a shower in my hunting cabin). He told me that the high back pressure would make the pump work harder and thus, burn the brushes out prematurely.

I tried to find cheap repalcement brushes for the pump but couldn't all in all still rocking it though.

I've read this thread through a couple times and keep checking back..... Great contribution to the growers of the world... The pump burnout was most likely the last hidden bug in the system.. One question, did you just Tee into the line before the heater and then back into the line just after the heater? With a valve at the heater you could adjust it to be just enough to turn it on, and use the same return line to the reservoir..