What are my leaves trying to tell me pointing down?

All of my top leaves seem to be trying to tell me that something isnt quite right. What possible reasons could my new leaves be pointing down like this?

Hunches.

1. Too much nitrogen? I'm using 1.25 ML of Foliage Pro per half gallon of water which is half the recommended doseage.

2. Not enough air to roots? Over time my Fox Farm soil seems to compact quite a bit....It happens arounds this time (week 4 flower)

3. Over water/Underwater?

4. Soil PH /salt buildup?.....

5. Lights hung too high/low? (I'm at 15 inches with a spiderfarmer SF-1000)

6. It's normal I shouldnt worry too much ? (I'm hopoing this is the case)


I've had a rough time with 3 previous grows right around week 5-6 of flower and I'm trying to fix anything I can before all hell breaks loose (again). Any tips greatly appreciated !

I'm not getting the happy praying leaves I've seen with this strain before.....

Mine came from overwatering. Not saying that's your issue however. I'm a newb!

My guess is overwatering. Hard to say for sure without more info.

Thanks, I'm in a new pot that may take some time to learn how to water. I think you may be right, a little too much water. It was four days since my last watering though when I took these pics.

I'm also watering without PH up or down this grow and my PH might be a little high. I just watered and the runoff came in around 7.0 or slightly higher. I might try lowering the PH of my water/feed next go around. (long story)

Picture of my new pot, the drainage is very good, maybe too good....

DrDukePHD said:

Mine came from overwatering. Not saying that's your issue however. I'm a newb!

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I'm a newb too....I'm only on my fourth grow and am still struggling in flower.... I really hope to get through the next few weeks healthy but I wouldnt bet money on it. I'm cursed when it comes to week 6 and on...

Foliage pro is high in Nitrogen.

I would also guess too much N Nice plant

"I'm also watering without PH up or down this grow and my PH might be a little high."

You self diagnosed!

Cool name I dig it. Have a '59 strat myself.

singlecoiled said:

Thanks, I'm in a new pot that may take some time to learn how to water. I think you may be right, a little too much water. It was four days since my last watering though when I took these pics.

I'm also watering without PH up or down this grow and my PH might be a little high. I just watered and the runoff came in around 7.0 or slightly higher. I might try lowering the PH of my water/feed next go around. (long story)

Picture of my new pot, the drainage is very good, maybe too good....

View attachment 5239781

Click to expand...

is that sitting in the run off?

lift the pot and check the roots under. Sometimes they are sneaky with those airpots and they can reach down to the runoff and start drinking it. Can lead to root rot/soil being too moist.

waterproof808 said:

Foliage pro is high in Nitrogen.

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Yep, I'm surprised so many people use it but apparently its great stuff. Many use it all the way to harvest.

I'll be cutting it down quite a bit and may or may not use bloom prodeucts this grow.

BigFreeSpirit420 said:

I would also guess too much N Nice plant

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Thanks, I'll give her a few plain waterings and a mini flush to remove some salts in a week or so. I'll cut down the useage of Foliage Pro a bit and may start to combine it 50/50 with bloom. I'm not too sure about bloom products though. I'm skeptical that they do any good at all.

Nutty sKunK said:

is that sitting in the run off?

lift the pot and check the roots under. Sometimes they are sneaky with those airpots and they can reach down to the runoff and start drinking it. Can lead to root rot/soil being too moist.

Click to expand...

Nope, I raise the plant on boards to water and put a saucer underneath to collect water to check runnoff PH. I dry the bottom pan completely after watering and a fan is able to get air under the pot.

Modern Selections said:

"I'm also watering without PH up or down this grow and my PH might be a little high."

You self diagnosed!

Cool name I dig it. Have a '59 strat myself.

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Wow, I've been here for a while and nobody caught on to my name, I figured there were hundreds of fellow guitarists stoners here, but your the first to notice. I did put a strat in my Signature though, maybe thats what did it... I'm a Strat/Tele guy own a bunch of them. I bought a 1959 Les Paul Reissue for my 50th birthday and it never gets played. Love my single coils!

So, in my past grows with the same soil, strain, nutrients etc... My soil PH dropped very low (5.0 or lower) around week 5-6 of flower. So this grow I am intentionally feeding/watering with a higher PH to hopefully stop the PH from dropping. This may be my mistake but this is how I learn...

Its (drainage) is working a little too good though, I tested the runnoff last night and it was around 7.0 (or slightly higher) So, I may start to water at a lower PH, we will see..

singlecoiled said:

Nope, I raise the plant on boards to water and put a saucer underneath to collect water to check runnoff PH. I dry the bottom pan completely after watering and a fan is able to get air under the pot.

Click to expand...

Good stuff!

It’s a watering issue since the leaves are puffy looking. Your media probably holds a little too much water as you say it’s compacted.

Add more perlite next time or maybe too much water at a time/too often

Ime they usually grow out of it when they fully root out the pot.

When you say week 6 it does down hill. In what way? Yellowing leaves? Rust spots? I suspect you might be introducing bloom feed too soon.

When do you introduce bloom feed? And what NPK ratio is it?

singlecoiled said:

Wow, I've been here for a while and nobody caught on to my name, I figured there were hundreds of fellow guitarists stoners here, but your the first to notice. I did put a strat in my Signature though, maybe thats what did it... I'm a Strat/Tele guy own a bunch of them. I bought a 1959 Les Paul Reissue for my 50th birthday and it never gets played. Love my single coils!

So, in my past grows with the same soil, strain, nutrients etc... My soil PH dropped very low (5.0 or lower) around week 5-6 of flower. So this grow I am intentionally feeding/watering with a higher PH to hopefully stop the PH from dropping. This may be my mistake but this is how I learn...

Its working a little too good though, I tested the runnoff last night and it was around 7.0 (or slightly higher) So, I may start to water at a lower PH, we will see..

Click to expand...

The correct pH input is the first step to pH stability. If it correct going in everytime, it should never be an issue in the future.

I love my Fenders as well, I also have a Tele and a custom Telecaster. That Les Paul sounds sick! Lately I have been playing my 335 so I guess it's still single coils? Considering putting some Duncan antiquity pickups in the 335 but then I blast through the Twin on 9 and reconsider lol.

singlecoiled said:

Nope, I raise the plant on boards to water and put a saucer underneath to collect water to check runnoff PH. I dry the bottom pan completely after watering and a fan is able to get air under the pot.

Click to expand...

My first thought is nutrient toxicity. I'd lay off the Foliage stuff. But if it was me I wouldn't be using those nutes to begin with, lol.

Don't go flushing out all the good stuff in the soil. And don't trust runoff pH. With that soil the more acidic the water going in is the more Calcium Carbonate gets flushed out giving you a higher reading than what it actually is. It's kinda weird but makes sense if you think about it.

What's the pH of water source? And did you measure the pH of the solution after adding those salts? That stuff probably has Phosphoric Acid in it.

Last time you said the soil pH ended at like 5.0. The buffers in that soil only last so long. So after awhile if you keep giving it acidic water the soil pH will drop.

Edit: I'm not saying the pH of them now has anything to do with that curling. I'm just saying to avoid the super low pH towards the end you don't want to be watering with super low pH. Just trying to be clear.

Nutty sKunK said:

Good stuff!

It’s a watering issue since the leaves are puffy looking. Your media probably holds a little too much water as you say it’s compacted.

Add more perlite next time or maybe too much water at a time/too often

Ime they usually grow out of it when they fully root out the pot.

When you say week 6 it does down hill. In what way? Yellowing leaves? Rust spots? I suspect you might be introducing bloom feed too soon.

When do you introduce bloom feed? And what NPK ratio is it?

Click to expand...

Thanks, I'm pretty sure I'm overwatering. I watered last night after four days and the plant is choking bad now, lets hope I can get her to dry out before any serious damage starts. I'm using double the amount of soil this grow (7 gallons vs 3) and I reduced the Veg time on this plant to 5 weeks vs 8. I'm pretty sure its too much water and soil for such a small plant.. ( I kept her small with less Veg time).

Ohh well, I already know this grow will get very rough soon, almost guaranteed, but that's OK. I'll still get some good smoke and someday I'll make it through flower healthy. Not this grow !

When you say week 6 it does down hill. In what way? Yellowing leaves? Rust spots? I suspect you might be introducing bloom feed too soon.

When do you introduce bloom feed? And what NPK ratio is it?


All three of my previous grows developed rust spots, yellowing of leaves, etc... I lost almost all my fan leaves at harvest time, but the buds were hanging in there.

So, I've done tons of reading. I'm using very little bloom this grow. Its half Foliage Pro and Half Bloom, although I may be using bloom nutrients very lightly. I've been following Uncle Ben's and the President of Dynagrows advice when they say bloom products are not needed..(The president of Dynagrow says Bloom nutrients are not needed and they sell them only because people THINK they need them,.... I may still add a little, but the days of Dumping Cha-Ching, Beastie Bloomz, etc... are done. I had hoped moving away from bloom nutrients woud help me in week 6...

Dyna grow feeding chart below is what I'm loosely following at 1/2 recommended strength,

Picture below is my last two failures, it doensnt look as bad as it was as I cut many of the dead and dying leaves off before this picture was taken.

PadawanWarrior said:

My first thought is nutrient toxicity. I'd lay off the Foliage stuff. But if it was me I wouldn't be using those nutes to begin with, lol.

Don't go flushing out all the good stuff in the soil. And don't trust runoff pH. With that soil the more acidic the water going in is the more Calcium Carbonate gets flushed out giving you a higher reading than what it actually is. It's kinda weird but makes sense if you think about it.

What's the pH of water source? And did you measure the pH of the solution after adding those salts? That stuff probably has Phosphoric Acid in it.

Last time you said the soil pH ended at like 5.0. The buffers in that soil only last so long. So after awhile if you keep giving it acidic water the soil pH will drop.

Edit: I'm not saying the pH of them now has anything to do with that curling. I'm just saying to avoid the super low pH towards the end you don't want to be watering with super low pH. Just trying to be clear.

Click to expand...

I try not to flush unless I have lockout or salt buildup. I have been watering to runoff though, hopefully removing excess salts.

PH of source water is 7.0-7.5 RO water purchased in 5 gallon containers. Runnoff was coming in at around 6.0 but it seems to be around 7.0 now after testing last night. I've had low PH problems with Fox Farm Happy Frog around week 5-6 flower, so I'm watering with a slightly higher PH... I also like the fact that I'm not using PH up or down, I hate using it... Tryin to keep this one very simple and most PH adjustments are done with the nutrients or I use plain water at PH 7.0.

Testing soil PH....tricky, I still dont really know how. The best I can do is watch runoff or create a soil slurry to PH, but I'm not sure how accurate these tests are.

I'm not using bloom nutrients blindly like I did in my last grow and really thought cutting them down would get me through flower. Anyway, I thought more soil, better drainage and less bloom (No more cha-ching etc..) would do the trick but I'm not sure... Over watering doesnt help, thats my fault and I should know better.

Thanks much ! If I can't get this grow figured out, I'm almost ready to throw the towel in.... Its really frustrating to watch your plant go south right before crossing the finish line !

PadawanWarrior said:

My first thought is nutrient toxicity. I'd lay off the Foliage stuff. But if it was me I wouldn't be using those nutes to begin with, lol.

Don't go flushing out all the good stuff in the soil. And don't trust runoff pH. With that soil the more acidic the water going in is the more Calcium Carbonate gets flushed out giving you a higher reading than what it actually is. It's kinda weird but makes sense if you think about it.

What's the pH of water source? And did you measure the pH of the solution after adding those salts? That stuff probably has Phosphoric Acid in it.

Last time you said the soil pH ended at like 5.0. The buffers in that soil only last so long. So after awhile if you keep giving it acidic water the soil pH will drop.

Edit: I'm not saying the pH of them now has anything to do with that curling. I'm just saying to avoid the super low pH towards the end you don't want to be watering with super low pH. Just trying to be clear.

Click to expand...

Thanks, without a proper soil test I'm at a loss on how to test PH and runoff PH is the only real clue I have. I can't get soil out of the root zone to test, and slurry tests of the top soil dont give much information either.

I'm with you on the watering. All of my prevoius grows were watered with a PH of 6.0-6.5 and over time the soil became acidic. So this grow, I am watering RO water with a PH at around 7.0 without PH adjustment. My soil PH might be a little too high, but I'm betting it drops a bit soon. If I come down from 7.0 to 6.5 or so, I'm hoping things stay in a healthy grow range.

This grow will probably be the straw that broke the camels back for me if flower gets rough, I'm spending way too much of my time troubleshooting without a known fix. Its all hit and miss and stabbing in the dark !

Modern Selections said:

The correct pH input is the first step to pH stability. If it correct going in everytime, it should never be an issue in the future.

I love my Fenders as well, I also have a Tele and a custom Telecaster. That Les Paul sounds sick! Lately I have been playing my 335 so I guess it's still single coils? Considering putting some Duncan antiquity pickups in the 335 but then I blast through the Twin on 9 and reconsider lol.

Click to expand...

A Fender Strat and a Fender Deluxe reverb is dam hard to beat ! Love my Tele's too...

It's funny that I never play the R9 Les Paul, I just like single coils, who know maybe I'll trade it for a FenderCustom Shop, Suhr or Collings acoustic. A real waist to stay locked in its case!

I hear you about PH... I'm working this hard now. My plan this grow was to water with a slighly higher PH (7.0) . I was using PH down in my last grows and watering with a PH arond 6.2 but my soil became acidic. I was hoping watering with a slighlty higher PH might compensate for soil PH problems later...

At the moment, I think I'm over watering, so I'll let her dry out until she is suffering this time (Until I see her drooping) to make sure I dont over water...No water for a week ! (painful to do mid flower, but I think shes choking)