What is Recommended Mixing Order for Dry Nuterients

ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Twerkle said:
That mix looks nice. whats 25lb cost, how many gallons?
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This very mix is widely used by commercial cannabis facilities throughout Colorado.

Cost is currently $41 for the bag. At 3 grams per gallon, 25lbs = 11,340 grams/3 = 3780 gallons of plant ready nutrient solution.

To it, you'll need to add 1.5-3 grams per gallon of calcium nitrate. A 50lb bag of that is around $38. I'd also add a gram per gallon of mag sulfate, aka epsom salt.

Doing the math, it adds up to less than a dollar for a 50 gallon reservoir.

For bloom one can add .5 gram per gallon of MKP, aka monopotassium phosphate 0-52-32. It's not even necessary, I get great results without it. A 50lb bag of that ran me $78 and it's looking like it's a lifetime supply, lol
 
firsttimeARE

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
This very mix is widely used by commercial cannabis facilities throughout Colorado.

Cost is currently $41 for the bag. At 3 grams per gallon, 25lbs = 11,340 grams/3 = 3780 gallons of plant ready nutrient solution.

To it, you'll need to add 1.5-3 grams per gallon of calcium nitrate. A 50lb bag of that is around $38. I'd also add a gram per gallon of mag sulfate, aka epsom salt.

Doing the math, it adds up to less than a dollar for a 50 gallon reservoir.

For bloom one can add .5 gram per gallon of MKP, aka monopotassium phosphate 0-52-32. It's not even necessary, I get great results without it. A 50lb bag of that ran me $78 and it's looking like it's a lifetime supply, lol
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Even cheaper when you mix at 1.2EC instead of your 1.9EC lol.

I got a 5lb bag of MKP and I think ive used maybe a half lb in the near 2 years ive had it.

Thanks again for sharing this nute source with me. Has saved me hundreds already and hundreds more in the future. It is very easy to control and plants love it. GFs brother uses AN and spends a couple hundred a month and his plants look garbage compared to mine.
 
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firsttimeARE

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
I am gonna try the fulvic for shits and gigs. Run a side by side and see if its worth it. Considering what we are growing im sure it would pay for itself even if it increased yields a fraction of a percent.
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Does any serious person, growing hydroponcally, use anything but RO/pure water as their base?

So far, my take away is Fulvc/Humic first, silica last

Any other gems to pass along?
 
firsttimeARE

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
Does any serious person, growing hydroponcally, use anything but RO/pure water as their base?

So far, my take away is Fulvc/Humic first, silica last

Any other gems to pass along?
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I use tap water. My tap is only 0.17EC but 10.3pH. I grow healthy plants but I wouldnt call myself a serious grower as in its not my job and is a hobby.

RO is incredibly wasteful and not necessary all the time. Northeast has good water. My last grow spot had 0.12EC at 6.7pH.
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
firsttimeARE said:
I use tap water. My tap is only 0.17EC but 10.3pH. I grow healthy plants but I wouldnt call myself a serious grower as in its not my job and is a hobby.

RO is incredibly wasteful and not necessary all the time. Northeast has good water. My last grow spot had 0.12EC at 6.7pH.
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This fairy tale goes back to the early days of ROs. They have been very efficient for over a decade, maybe 2. People waste more water taking a shower, washing dishes, watering lawns, washing cars...
 
T

Twerkle

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
With all due respect; these formulas are developed by people with degrees in chemistry, botany, horticulture and plant husbandry. The minerals that need chelation get it, notice that zinc is also chelated. The rest are in forms that don't need it and doing so would needlessly add to the cost of the nutrients.

That 25lb bag costs only $41, and commercial greenhouses have been using it for many years with great results; many if not most of the vegetables you buy at the grocery store we grown with formulas similar to this one! Care to guess how many hydro store water bottles it takes to match it?

You need to do some more homework before you make yourself look like a noob.
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With all due respect just because commercial growers use it doesn't mean it is the best. It means it is the best cost/benefit ratio. LOL...Thats day one business class.


http://www.haifa-group.com/products/plant_nutrition/water_soluble_fertilizers/haifa_micro/

Haifa Group makes all water soluble chelated micros. Why would a large company waster their time making them if you didn't need them like you said? :)

If the micro can be chelated that means it has to scavenge for a ion, which is going to come from where? Your nutrient solution. It might bond with what you need it to and be taken up or it might bond with something else and fall out of the solution. The reason Iron is always chelated is because it will scavenge for calcium immediately and fall out of the solution.

Like I said you could probably benefit from fulvic acid because:

" The permeability has been shown to differ depending upon the size of molecules. Larger molecules such as EDTA, DTPA and EDDHA penetrate at a slower rate compared to natural chelating agents (Kannan, 1969). "

So a natural chelator or complexor would help you IMO.

But I'm just a noob.
 
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T

Twerkle

Well-Known Member
Also anyways like I was saying just because you don't need it in your rez doesn't mean you don't need it for your grow.

"Humic and fulvic acids also help protect your plants against stress. In the Virginia Tech study, it was found that the 5:2 ratio of humic acid to kelp stimulated plants to make 50% more of a powerful plant protection agent called superoxide dismutase (SOD), an enzyme that sponges free radicals and protects the chloroplasts and membranes of the cell.

To be effective, SOD must be turned on by either an iron/manganese complex or a copper/zinc complex. If the enzyme is activated, a single SOD molecule can perform more than 1,000 chemical reactions per second in the cell, so if you condition your plants against stress with humic acids and kelp, plants will stay green longer and recover faster.

Improved levels of SOD can help protect plants against heat stress, drought stress, UV stress and salt stress. Just remember to condition plants against stress before the stress happens."
 
firsttimeARE

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
This fairy tale goes back to the early days of ROs. They have been very efficient for over a decade, maybe 2. People waste more water taking a shower, washing dishes, watering lawns, washing cars...
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Use it then, no ones stopping you. But to say a grower isnt serious who isnt using one isnt true.

They waste between 1 to 3 gallons of water per gallon of pure water produced. So its double up to quadruple what you normally use. Not to mention the cost and waste of filters. You are right people waste more on other activities, doesnt lessen the fact that RO waste water. Ive ran one for a bit. Ive seen the waste produced.

It just isnt for me and my situation.
 
Billy Liar

Billy Liar

Well-Known Member
RO can be worth it in certain circumstances, but it is not difficult to calculate the mg/L of each element required to amend your tap water to be a good final solution for hydroponics.

I find using a formula similar to the Jacks Hydroponics mentioned earlier is all that's needed for most of the cycle, and rather than add MKP (Mono Potassium Phosphate) as a boost I now add SOP (Potassium Sulphate) to boost flower production later on, as I don't find the extra Phosphorous beneficial, and actually lower P later in flower.

Peace
BL
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Twerkle said:
With all due respect just because commercial growers use it doesn't mean it is the best. It means it is the best cost/benefit ratio. LOL...Thats day one business class.


http://www.haifa-group.com/products/plant_nutrition/water_soluble_fertilizers/haifa_micro/

Haifa Group makes all water soluble chelated micros. Why would a large company waster their time making them if you didn't need them like you said? :)

If the micro can be chelated that means it has to scavenge for a ion, which is going to come from where? Your nutrient solution. It might bond with what you need it to and be taken up or it might bond with something else and fall out of the solution. The reason Iron is always chelated is because it will scavenge for calcium immediately and fall out of the solution.

Like I said you could probably benefit from fulvic acid because:

" The permeability has been shown to differ depending upon the size of molecules. Larger molecules such as EDTA, DTPA and EDDHA penetrate at a slower rate compared to natural chelating agents (Kannan, 1969). "

So a natural chelator or complexor would help you IMO.

But I'm just a noob.
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Apply that same business class thinking to your water bottles and see who's getting screwed, bro!

Besides, I've already outlined the courses necessary for understanding the subject; you'll notice business wasn't on the list.

Then by all means, use fulvic acid if you like. I tried it and saw no difference. That's also business 101; if an input doesn't lead to improvement is probably not worth using.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
This fairy tale goes back to the early days of ROs. They have been very efficient for over a decade, maybe 2. People waste more water taking a shower, washing dishes, watering lawns, washing cars...
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My tapwater comes out at EC .052. What possible gain would I have in wasting 2/3 of the water I'm using to reduce that figure?

Some people need to filter their water and that's fine. Saying 'everyone must' is a blanket statement that ignores the whole point of the exercise.
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
firsttimeARE said:
Use it then, no ones stopping you. But to say a grower isnt serious who isnt using one isnt true.

They waste between 1 to 3 gallons of water per gallon of pure water produced. So its double up to quadruple what you normally use. Not to mention the cost and waste of filters. You are right people waste more on other activities, doesnt lessen the fact that RO waste water. Ive ran one for a bit. Ive seen the waste produced.

It just isnt for me and my situation.
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ROs like mine that come with a booster pump barely waste one gallon/4gallons. As I said running a sink or shower, or ashing a car uses TONS more
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
My tapwater comes out at EC .052. What possible gain would I have in wasting 2/3 of the water I'm using to reduce that figure?

Some people need to filter their water and that's fine. Saying 'everyone must' is a blanket statement that ignores the whole point of the exercise.
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I agree, blanket statements can bite you in the ass, but your water purity is far from the norm, probably less than 5% of all municipal water. Also, pure water is very aggressive by nature. The big reason for higher ppm is to minimize damage to water pipes: The older the pipes and less stable the earth they are in, the bigger the problem. AND, who knows what quality minerals are used by municipalities who often go with lowest bid
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
if i'm adding calcium nitrate i dissolve that first, and give it a few minutes, then i add epsom salts, let it dissolve for 10 minutes or so, then i add my main mix (jacks), then i add silica if i'm going to, and finally check my ph. i actually use the silica as my ph up if im going to use it, if i don't want any silica, i just use GH up and down
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
if i'm adding calcium nitrate i dissolve that first, and give it a few minutes, then i add epsom salts, let it dissolve for 10 minutes or so, then i add my main mix (jacks), then i add silica if i'm going to, and finally check my ph. i actually use the silica as my ph up if im going to use it, if i don't want any silica, i just use GH up and down
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Mix your epsom salts into solution in a separate bucket than the calcium nitrate. You'll be happier with the results and they'll be more consistent.
 
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