Roseman and Purpdaddy, thanks for the wealth of info on DWC and bubbleponics. My first attempt at soil grow is extremeley slow yet positive. I will be investing in a bubbleponics system as soon as I have the extra bucks. Everyone says I can do it easily and cheaply, but I prefer to just set it up and go! I like the premeasured nutes and all that too. I appreciate the beautful pics to give me an idea of what results one can achieve with one of these setups! I would like to know what type of inexpensive lighting you'd suggest for someone who doen't have any HID lighting yet. I do have four 23 watt (100 equivalent) CFLS's on my two plants. How much light will I need to successfully handle say the 6 plant bubbleponics system? I notice they sell light kit combos I was thinking of the one for $189 for starters. But if you can think of a better lighting setting up let me know. Thanks again.
What is the difference btween stealth DWC and Bubbleponics?
- Thread starter reeferob
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Roseman
Elite Rolling Society
https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/234626-rosemans-diy-bubbleponics-tutorial-7.html#post2997685
CFLs vs HID Lights
If you want to start an arguement fast, then visit an Internet Grow Forum or Chat Room and mention CFLs vs HID Lights.
Let me just tell you a fact. HID Lights (High Intensity Discharge Lights) are much more efficient than CFLs (Compact Flourscent Lights) and they grow FASTER and penetrate a large plant much better than CFLs do. HID lights grow tighter denser buds too. That is a fact no one should argue. HIDs win easily.
Wait a minute. What costs more to purchase? What requires a fancier Reflector and costs more to hang? What cost more to use and adds more to the electric bill? What cost more to handle the HEAT?
HEAT? I can touch a 200 watt CFL for ten seconds and not burn my hand. I can hold a burning 42, 65, or 85 watt bulb in my hand for five seconds and not get burnt. I can touch a HID bulb for half a second and have a serious blister and burn. Touching a HID bulb is like touching the burner on an electric stove. If you use HID bulbs, not only will you have to cool the bulb, you will have to cool the grow area too. Growing with HID lights requires VENTING the HEAT, and that cost extra money.
If you are a large scale grower, or commercial grower, HID lights are best for you.
If you are a small grower, a closet or tent grower, then CFLs are your best, easiest, cheapest way to grow.
As I mentioned, I like the cheaper CFLs because of their mobility and ease of use. When I did my first grow three years ago, a 65 watt CFL was the largest made and sold. Today I see up to 300 watt CFLS, but I do not advise using the larger watt CFL bulbs.
Let me tell you about CFLs.
From Ed Rosenthal:
In the new Skunk Magazine there was a question in the "Ask Ed" section that just made my night last night when reading it...
The question was:
I intend to grow a single cannabis plant in a space 1' x 2'. What light would you recommend? I was think of using four 30-watt compact fluorescent lamps. Will this be enough? Cost isn't an issue but I am deterred from getting a high pressure sodium [light] because of the amount of heat the bulb produces.
Answer:
As you mentioned, you have several lighting systems to choose from, including compact fluorescents and high pressure sodium (HPS) lamps. Among HPS lamps you have a choice between a single 100-watt lamp which uses a total of about 120-watts and emits about 8,800 lumens(73 lumens per watt) or a 150-watt lamp, which uses about 180 watts and emits almost double that-15,800 lumens (87 lumens per watt).
A 42-watt compact fluorescent (CFL) emits about 2700 lumens(64 lumens per watt). Four 42 watt CFLs use 168 watts and emit 10,800 lumens. Other size CFLs have a similar efficiency.
However, that is only part of the story. Plants use mostly red and blue light. Yellow and green light is of little use to them, so light that is emitted in these spectrums is wasted energy. Most of the light emitted by HPS lamps is in the yellow spectrum. Only a small amount of the emitted light is is in the orange or red spectrums, which plants use efficiently. Warm white fluorescents (2700 Kelvin) emit a greater portion in the red and orange sectors.
Although fluorescents produce only about 75% of the light per watt that the HPS does, the amount of light usable by the plant is equal or probably higher with the fluorescents. You may wish to experiment to see if adding a single cool white CFL to replace one warm white results in shorter, stouter stems and more vigorous growth. The reasoning is that warm whites don't emit much blue light, which the plants use for photosynthesis and to regulate their growth. The cool white bulb supplies the blue light.
My call for your unit would be to use several (three to five) CFLs with a total input of between 120-160 watts. Although the 150 watt HPS is a bit more efficient that the CFLs in total output, watt for watt the fluorescents provide as much useful light as the HPS lamp. Heat is another consideration. The HPS runs much hotter and emits more heat than the fluoescents.
Make sure to use reflective material around the garden so that any light escaping the garden is reflected back to the plants. Any light that doesn't get to the plant leaves is wasted.
Look at a lumen/watt ration of various CFL's. The higher the wattage of CFLs, the lower the lumen/watt ratio. This chart was submitted by Jerry Garcia, of RIU and edited for typos.
For example...
the 200w listed at 9250 lumens for a lumens/watt ratio of 9250/200=46.25
the 150w is listed at 7500 lumens for a l/w ratio of 7500/150=50
the 125w is listed at 6500 lumens for a l/w ratio of 6500/125=52
the 42w are listed for 2700 lumens, l/w ratio of 2700/42=64.28
I have some 26w that give off 1700 lumens for a l/w ratio of 1700/26=65.38
GE lists some 13w that give off 825 lumens for a l/w ratio of 825/13=63.46
So, according to these numbers the most efficient bulbs for growing are the 26w that emit 1700 lumens. If you used 8 26w bulbs (208 watts total) you'd be getting 13,600 lumens...4,350 more lumens than a single 200 watt cfl.
I suppose you need to purchase more sockets and cords and things to support 8 bulbs, but in the long run more lower watt CFLs seem like the way to go.
DUAL SPECTRUM
With CFLs, you need the DUAL SPECTRUM, red and blue spectrums. That does not refer to the color of the bulb that you see. It refers to the kind of rays, like UVA or UVB, or the color temp of the bulb, called kelvins.
CFLS come in 2700 kevins, 3000, 4100, 5100, and 6500.
Low Kelvin bulbs, like the 2700k is for BLOOM OR FLOWERING, 6500k is for the VEG Spectrum. The others are "MID" spectrums or in between.
IF you use the MID-range bulbs (4100) then also use the 6500 and 2700s for a balanced spectrum.
In outdoors, the sun produces different rays in the spring (VEG Rays called Blue) and late summer rays for the Bloom spectrum, the RED spectrum. The sun also produces green, and orange rays, but plants do not use them.
Color rating - Measured in Kelvin (K). The higher the number, the more bluish the light. 4000K-7000K is mostly on the blue side of the spectrum for Vegging or GROWING, while 3000K and under goes from a white spectrum, to a redder spectrum and is best for BLOOMING or FLOWERING.
There is NOT one CFL bulb for both spectrums, two different kelvin bulbs are needed.
The Importance Of Mixed Lighting (Dual Spectrum)
It is common knowledge that plants absorb warm and cool spectrum of light throughout its life. But I find that the importance of mixed lighting is understressed throughout the growing community.
During the flowering phase of a plants life, Warm light is better utilized to increase the size of a plant's buds. As CFL growers we tend to pile up on 2700k bulbs to increase our yield. In most cases, growers assume that warm light not only grants us larger buds, but insures that those buds are of connoisseur quality as well. This is not to say that one can not achieve a very successful crop off of pure warm spectrum 2700k lighting. We see it all the time as members of the Grow Forum Internet community. But as CFL growers, almost all of us demand a higher efficiency for our dollar.
So what does this mean? Clearly I'm trying to emphasize the necessity of cool lighting during the flowering phase of a plants life. But why? Well thats simple. As many of you may have heard or read before, Cool lighting (6500k) introduces a UVB spectrum that benefits the potency of the buds our plants are producing.
" The writer's own experience allow for a more specific conclusion: If the UVB photon is missing from the light stream(a), or the intensity as expressed in µW/cm2 falls below a certain level(b), the phytochemical process will not be completely energized with only UVA photons which are more penetrating but less energetic, and the harvested resin spheres will have mostly precursor compounds and not fully realized THC(c).
Now it would be completely unreasonable to ask a grower using a 1000watt HPS to switch out for MH lighting even though it produces quality of the weed. Sticking with blue spectrum lighting in a plants flowering phase would greatly decrease the size of the buds and the yield of the plant. People using high wattage systems tend to grow for cash crop. No single person really needs a pound of buds.
" “Metal halide produce the best potent buds with less lumens for the money but better smoke. After years of testing with some friends who did want to keep THEIR recipe (more hps) I found their buds to be harsh, full of CBD, make me eat and sleep. The blue spectrum will give you a final product that have everything included:taste without curing, potency and yield.
For lower wattage growers who grow for self use, and are not on a low budget, it would be beneficial to replace their HPS with an MH for the last week or two of budding. This is because the last weeks of a plants life before harvesting is dedicated to the ripening of the buds, and not the growth of the bud itself. It would not greatly impact the yield of the plant, but have a great effect on the quality. Interesting, but this only applies to a few amount of growers that fit this category.
As CFL growers, we would be fools to ignore such information. It is astonishing that so many fantastic growers to not utilize cool lighting even to a small supplemental degree. We owe it to our selves to scrounge up a few bucks in change and take a drive to Home Depot. Buy a pack of 6500k bulbs (26watts tend to be popular, 42s are better) and set them somewhere not far off from your buds. Don't let your hard work return with unsatisfaction. Added quality with increased quantity(more light). Mixed lighting should be standard knowledge, not found in the advanced cultivation section.
Side Note: Reptile lighting found at pet stores is not ideal for UVB lighting. Yes they do emit a high % of UVB than regular CFLs but they output less light and emit over 12x more UVA light than UVB light which can harm your plant.
Contributed and submitted by Chase1126, and edited for links and spelling.