myke
Well-Known Member
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Ya it appears the clumps could be excess gypsum or calcium from OSF in the Gaia .Thanks for your help.There's no way a 200ppm tap water did that...its just a bunch of that non water soluble white substances settling out.
I knew it was buggin the hell out of you, happy to helpYa digging around it appears the clumps could be excess gypsum or calcium from OSF in the Gaia .Thanks for your help.
Cheers,as mentioned above Ill need to re think my inputs.Can only assume theres a shit ton of it in my ganga sips.I knew it was buggin the hell out of you, happy to help
So doing a ph test. Vial on the left is straight distilled water. Right is soil test of mostly the substance in question. So looks high. Figured that. So now I’ll ph it down with vinegar and report back tomorrow. Cheers. View attachment 5015627
Some pics of the tomatoes. I also had some smaller pots 7g that experience blossom end rot. None of my 15g or sips did. But have a look at the leaves. Perhaps Ca toxicity? I thought it was a deficiency. View attachment 5015584View attachment 5015585
Ahh yes. Calcium. Bingo. Funny a friend just mentioned that. I think your right. Hard water fed. These were outside tomatoes so they only got topdress twice I think the whole season. Big sips 27g. Soil lasted the whole season. 4.5 months.
I believe this is calcium from my water. Assuming as water wicking up from the bottom and evaporated on the surface leaving behind the calcium. Same on my taps.
My indoor sips get a lot more of the Gaia and frequent EWC top ups so I’m always scratching in the top dress. Never noticed any calcium build up but I’ll for sure be on the look out now.
The outdoor sips were basically left alone. Only twice did I disturb the soil surface. So makes sense I’m seeing this build up.
I’ll try your pH test and let ya know. Thanks much.
There's no way a 200ppm tap water did that...its just a bunch of that non water soluble white substances settling out.
You really need to make a book man. I'd buy it, lol. Seriously though.Correct. Not much calcium is water soluble, this is especially true when it is in carbonate form. This is why my first thought seeing this chalky substance was Calcium.
OP's tap water wasn't a direct cause of this, but definitely played an indirect role. 200ppm water typically does have both Calcium and Magnesium in it, but the Calcium used in municipal water that tests <200 ppms is typically not in Carbonate form, and thus will not affect one's pH. In fact, that majority of municipal water sources shouldn't negatively effect pH in terms of alkalinity. Not all Calcium is in carbonate form, capable of causing alkaline pH. Calcium doesn't cause alkaline pH, carbonate does. That said, Calcium is still Calcium.
It is well water sources that are typically problematic. Huge difference between water that is "hard" coming from a municipal water district, compared to water that is "hard" coming from an underground well source. The water districts typically add and/or subtract things to the water to get it to a specific PPM, whereas well water does not have a water district adding and subtracting things from the well water. What you get is what you get, and with "hard" well water, problems are typically the result of calcium carbonate in the water, or excess iron in some cases. Depends on where the water is coming from.
Looks like this is in fact a Calcium issue, but it isn't that much of an "issue". I've seen @myke tomato plant photos before, they look very text book in terms of overall health and the like. The bottom leaves do in fact show slight Mg deficiencies, however the overall health of the plant is great, so I'm inclined to believe that there isn't much of an issue overall. However, it could manifest itself as an issue at any moment, and IMO this is the perfect time to take action and remedy the situation.
Having read some of OPs responses, I'm thinking that the residue is mostly the gypsum from the Gaia Green top dresses, and not the OSF. While this is technically an "imbalance" so to speak, it isn't likely to cause issues if it is in fact just the Gypsum.
Since OPs uses different water outdoors, water has Calcium in it already, he can still use Gaia Green indoors and be just fine. That residue is certainly Calcium, but likely in the form of Gypsum which is a sulfate and not a carbonate and should not negatively affect the soil too much in terms of pH, but there is definitely a risk of excess Ca locking out K/Mg. OP can keep using Gaia Green indoors, so long as the water is RO/Distilled, which I'd guess he's doing if his indoor SIPs don't have this residue.
Simply finding organic blends devoid of Calcium, and continuing to use his tap water from the hose, will quickly remedy the problem. Hell, its not even that much of a problem for now. However, given enough time in a no-till environment, excess is still excess.
OP needs to be mindful of the fact that his outdoor water source has Calcium in it, and remove Calcium inputs from his top dresses in the future. While OP likely won't experience issues related to excessive alkalinity from carbonate sources in water/dirt, this will become a Calcium toxicity at some point in time. If OP continues to use Gaia in the outdoor SIPs, the water needs to be RO/distilled like it is indoors.
However, the simpler approach would be to top dress with amendments devoid of Calcium, and allow the water to be the source for Calcium. With organics/living soil, there is greater success to be had by working with what you have as opposed to against it.
Like my limestone well water for instance. I could try to pH down the water and murder my soil with sulfur, but that's way too time consuming and costly. Rather than work against my water, I work with it. I simply removed all Ca inputs from my soil, and stopped liming my soil, as my water not only limes my soil but also provides sufficient Ca to the soil as well.
Thanks for the response. Maybe some confusion but I use same tap water inside and out.Yeah, definitely Calcium with that pH. Exact same color I get when I pH my tap water from the well. Now all that's left to do is wait the 24+ hours after applying the vinegar, and seeing if the pH buffers back to alkalinity or not. Based on what I'm hearing, it seems like the residue is most likely gypsum and not Calcium Carbonate. If the pH water solution fails to return to that same shade of green (7.0+ pH), then the residue is gypsum. Should the pH of the water solution return to 7.0 or above, the residue is likely Calcium Carbonate from the OSF in Gaia Green.
Regardless of if it is gypsum or carbonate, its all Calcium nonetheless.
You thought right. What you're seeing there isn't solely Ca toxicity, but rather a Mg/K deficiency as a result of the excess Ca levels.
K plays a large role in setting fruits, flower production, and so forth. Blossom end rot is actually a sign of a lack of Potassium. The fruits set just fine, but don't have enough nutrition to continue growing, so you get blossom rot. Where there's blossom end rot, there's likely a Potassium deficiency or lock out. In this case, it sounds like it is a lockout from excess Calcium.
The thing with excess Calcium is that you won't see actual toxicity from the excess Calcium, it'll manifest itself in the form of Magnesium and Potassium lockout. Remember; Calcium, Potassium, and Magnesium are part of a "trinity" so to speak. If one is in excess, the others will be locked out. If one is deficient, the others will be locked out. Very delicate balance between the three.
I notice those appear to be cherry tomatoes? Something to consider about cherry tomatoes, they are extremely forgiving. Had another type of tomato been grown in that pot, the Ca/K lockout would have likely been more apparent.
Blossom end rot, flowers that develop but never open, and fruits that die immediately after pollination are all signs of K deficiency and/or lockout.
The reason it manifested in your 7g SIPs first is due to volume/mass. Excess Calcium issues will manifest themselves in your smaller pots well before they appear in your larger ones.
From everything that you're telling me, your excess Calcium isn't in Carbonate form, and likely isn't affecting your pH negatively. However, the excess Calcium is starting to block out Magnesium and Potassium. As I mentioned above, blossom end rot, and the failure of flowers/fruits to "set" after pollination, are sure fire signs that Mg/K are being locked out by excessive Ca. When growing cannabis, this will result in buds that look fat as fuck, but never end up filling out.
This is why I believed excess Calcium was the issue at play here.
Calcium Carbonate is water insoluble, so even if we're watering our SIPs with water full of Calcium Carbonate, the carbonate is water insoluble and thus will not traverse through the entire substrate but will rather stay at the bottom of the SIP reservoirs. Confirming this is quite simple, look at the bottom of your SIP and see if you can't find any scaling/residue.
However, even if it is not water soluble, and is NOT affecting your pH, it is still Calcium. Even if its purely residue on the bottom of your SIPs, it is still a part of the soil web as a whole, as the Calcium "infects" your water so to speak.
tl;dr: I don't believe you'll have issues related to excess alkalinity from water infected with carbonate. However, you will soon likely encounter K/Mg lockout from excess Calcium. As I pointed out above, it has already manifested itself in your smaller 7g SIPs. If you continue to do the same thing, you will see this issue manifest itself in your 15g+ SIPs in another few months.
Ya, I thought I'd entered the Twilight Zone for a minute.Why do you have two threads? Look at the other one. I'm pretty sure it's saphrophytic fungus.
I get twice the answers then. Haha. After starting the first one in General growing I realized it’s more of an organic question. And hey we all know organic growers are smarter. Lol.Why do you have two threads? Look at the other one. I'm pretty sure it's saphrophytic fungus.
Well they look like a bunch of long winded wrong people to me.I get twice the answers then. Haha. After starting the first one in General growing I realized it’s more of an organic question. And hey we all know organic growers are smarter. Lol.
What's wrong is growing autos, lol.Well they look like a bunch of long winded wrong people to me.