What is wrong with this blooming plant?

Perhaps for some reason, like warm air temp, your water is deplete faster than you'd like. That or there's no pH buffering taking place. Calcium is usually the pH buffer. If you're using the trio there should be calcium. Maybe you have a cat that pees in the bucket?
 
polishpollack said:
Perhaps for some reason, like warm air temp, your water is deplete faster than you'd like. That or there's no pH buffering taking place. Calcium is usually the pH buffer. If you're using the trio there should be calcium. Maybe you have a cat that pees in the bucket?
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Sure, it just doesn't seem logical to me. Seeing as I'm not running hot in the tent, more than enough ventilation, automated RH system etc. But yeah, sure, might be the case for some very strange reason.
 
I have never had a meter that would give me the same reading twice in a row. If I don't like the ph I just test it again and again until it comes out where I want it. I never trust 'em. Your ph swings don't surprise me. A lot of people have had successful grows just using the Lucas formula. It's always easier to follow the successful people. If you mix at that rate in tap water your ph should be fine.
 
godboss said:
You said.."Using GHE nutes (micro, gro and bloom) and keeping the pH as stable as I can at around 5.8"

Try raising the ph two points the plant might be in nutri lock 6.1 ought to work
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Also if your plant is in grow or veg..move it to 18/6 or 24/7..I'm guessing you are trying to flower her right now with the 12/12.. Let us know how it turns out.
 
mixchemical said:
Sure, might as well try right?

A little update. I measured the pH in on of the buckets, which sat at 0.8mS, and it was 5.3 this morning and now, about 8 hours later it's dropped down to 4.9. Sure that the pH drops but over 8 hours and a drop of .4 - that can't be normal. The microsiemens (mS) reading has dropped to 0.7, however, if that is 0.79 or 0.71 - I dont know.

The other bucket seems to be a bit more stable. The mS reading is 0.8 and the pH has been dropping, very slowly though, and is sitting at 5.4 both this morning and now when I arrived back from work.

I've read a bit about the "lucas formula/ratio" and was a bit intrigued but seeing as one of my plants is sitting about 0.8mS, which seems to be not that very high, doesn't give me any hope in that a change of nutrient ratio and amount will be for the better.

I'm really stuck here now - any suggestions on what I could do next?
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Temperature should be between 18 and 22 c and the ph ideally should be around 5.5- 5.8. But a little more acidic is ok if water temps are kept below 24c..I found as soon as I went over 24 C the water started to lose oxygen even though I had two air stones (long ones) running full bore....from my power engineering exp..I can guarantee that higher temps with too alkaline or dangerous levels of acidity will kill the dwc plant grow..slightly lower temp around 18 - 22 c will be more forgiving on a move to the higher alkalinity..watch the plants for stem bleaching ..don't go over 6.1 ph ..I prefer 5.5 to 5.7..let us know what you find out..
 
mixchemical said:
Bought it new a week ago, I calibrate every 2nd week. I re-calibrated it yesterday just to make sure the meter isnt an issue.
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I wouldn't really check by a schedule, particularly the cheaper meters I use a fairly pricing Apera meter and although it never goes off more than .1 every blue moon I still check it maybe 2 or 3 times a week.

The cheaper the meter and the more inexperienced the grower the more frequently you should check and calibrate!

Some people have good luck with the pH paper strips though I've never used them they seem efficient as well, best of luck
 
70's natureboy said:
I have never had a meter that would give me the same reading twice in a row. If I don't like the ph I just test it again and again until it comes out where I want it. I never trust 'em. Your ph swings don't surprise me. A lot of people have had successful grows just using the Lucas formula. It's always easier to follow the successful people. If you mix at that rate in tap water your ph should be fine.
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My pH swings dont suprise you? What do you mean? I wouldn't call them "swings" as in they're up one day and down the next, they're just going down and that's the problem. I've had bad pH meters before but I usually run 2 meters just to reference them with each other. Lower chance of both being broken rather than just one.

godboss said:
Also if your plant is in grow or veg..move it to 18/6 or 24/7..I'm guessing you are trying to flower her right now with the 12/12.. Let us know how it turns out.
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It's in bloom since quite a few weeks back. 12/12 is the light schedual.

godboss said:
Temperature should be between 18 and 22 c and the ph ideally should be around 5.5- 5.8. But a little more acidic is ok if water temps are kept below 24c..I found as soon as I went over 24 C the water started to lose oxygen even though I had two air stones (long ones) running full bore....from my power engineering exp..I can guarantee that higher temps with too alkaline or dangerous levels of acidity will kill the dwc plant grow..slightly lower temp around 18 - 22 c will be more forgiving on a move to the higher alkalinity..watch the plants for stem bleaching ..don't go over 6.1 ph ..I prefer 5.5 to 5.7..let us know what you find out..
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My temps in water are usually around 21-22C. Dont have a chiller and since I dont run a rDWC it would be quite expensive to run 2 chillers for. Never had any issues with root rot, diseases or nasty smells during my grows - but hey, might've had issues that I just can't see or smell.

Beachwalker said:
I wouldn't really check by a schedule, particularly the cheaper meters I use a fairly pricing Apera meter and although it never goes off more than .1 every blue moon I still check it maybe 2 or 3 times a week.

The cheaper the meter and the more inexperienced the grower the more frequently you should check and calibrate!

Some people have good luck with the pH paper strips though I've never used them they seem efficient as well, best of luck
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I try to check twice a day, once before work and then directly when coming home. Mostly because of the issues i've had now with the pH dropping and I dont want it to sit in <5pH for more than needed. I've used Adwa AD-12 for my pH measuring for 2 years now but since they usually only last a couple of months (even though i'm very meticulous in taking care of the probe) and no answer from the CS department made me switch to HM digital. Sure, it isnt the most expensive meter you can buy but I feel I dont need that amount of precision. Just need it to dial it in.

As a general update, found one of the leaves that looks like this. 20181121_212207.jpg

Any thoughts on what might be the cause? This is from the bucket that's been holding quite steadily at 0.7mS and a pH of around 5.7. Gave it fresh water today, perhaps a gallon and no pH adjustment.

The other plant, which is fluctuating so bad, is still dropping quite hard (the pH) but not showing a lot of bad signs on the leaves, unlike the otherone which is the opposite.
 
Another update.

The bucket with plant that has the ugly looking leaf (pic in post above) was sitting at pH 5.4 this morning while the other one, which is fluctuating very very badly, has dropped down to a pH of 4.4 over the course of about 10 hours.

I'm thinking I need to dump out the water, refill and not put in any pH down at all as one of you suggested. Might as well try the lucas ration on that one and see where it ends up.

Any ideas on the leaf? It's only about 3 leaves that I can see that look like that, the others are fine. When I switched from veg to bloom, it stretched so much that a few of the leaves came in contact with the grow light, doesnt look at all like light burn but just an fyi.

I'll keep this thread updated.
 
No ideas on the leaf, however, if you go Lucas aren't you going to leave out anything else with the Grow bottle? Like calcium? I'm not sure, I don't use that product (if I understand you right on what you're using), but remember there can be things left out that are needed if you intentionally avoid using something. On your pH issue, I can only guess that calcium might be low or missing, or maybe it's just a good idea to try a different fert. Supernatural always claimed to have pH buffers to prevent this kind of problem. If you want to stick with GH, then maybe some calmag is in order. Good luck on this.
 
polishpollack said:
No ideas on the leaf, however, if you go Lucas aren't you going to leave out anything else with the Grow bottle? Like calcium? I'm not sure, I don't use that product (if I understand you right on what you're using), but remember there can be things left out that are needed if you intentionally avoid using something. On your pH issue, I can only guess that calcium might be low or missing, or maybe it's just a good idea to try a different fert. Supernatural always claimed to have pH buffers to prevent this kind of problem. If you want to stick with GH, then maybe some calmag is in order. Good luck on this.
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Well, calcium already exists in the tap water but sure, I guess some parts might be left out but from what i've read, it's not something that is an issue now. If I compare the NPK ratios of Micro+bloom and micro+gro i'm not missing out on a lot. Also, i'm kind of at a dead end here.

I dont think the nutes are the issue, even though I cant be sure, but i've used them for 2-3 years now and have had no issues other than my limited knowledge of growing.

In any case! I've now dumped out 13 gallons (the whole bucket) except for like 1 quart which I couldnt get too. Filled it with fresh water and dosed according to the lucas ration, which is 8ml micro / gallon and 16ml bloom /gallon. For me it turned out to be 100ml of micro and 200ml of bloom. Measured the pH after dosing and it was sitting at 6.1 - strange but ill take it.

Not going to dose any pH down now, just going to let her sit untill tomorrow and check again.

If anybody has an idea on the leaf, input is much appreciated.

Thanks.
 
I was actually referring to calcium as a pH buffer, not nutrient, sorry guess I was vague. 6.1 is perfect. I wonder if you have bacteria or some other lifeform that is causing the low pH problem. If the waste they make is acidic, that would be your answer. But I don't know if that's it. Maybe there is something about your water that's causing it and using bottled water or a filter would be good. Or maybe it's not even a nutrient issue at all. It could be something else. This is a tough one.
 
polishpollack said:
I was actually referring to calcium as a pH buffer, not nutrient, sorry guess I was vague. 6.1 is perfect. I wonder if you have bacteria or some other lifeform that is causing the low pH problem. If the waste they make is acidic, that would be your answer. But I don't know if that's it. Maybe there is something about your water that's causing it and using bottled water or a filter would be good. Or maybe it's not even a nutrient issue at all. It could be something else. This is a tough one.
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Yeah, maybe. It's really strange though because the plant itself looks good, nothing strange about it at all but the pH is just dropping below what is considered within the acceptable range for hydro.

I just took another measurement now and it's still at 6.1 so this will be interesting to see since the EC of the water is now a massive (for me) 1.8mS. So it'll be fun to see the pH tomorrow morning before I go to work.

If it holds untill saturday morning till probably switch out my other bucket as well, seeing as that might have some deficiency or imbalance due to the discoloration of the leaves.

Was looking at RO filters but seeing as I run 13 gall and I live in an apt. it's not really worth it for me taking the time it would take to fill 4x13 gall containers with water. The biggest filters I could find would supply 10 gallons an hour....So that's ~5 hours to fill all 4. I'm lucky to have quite soft water anyways barely 0.1mS so ill try to find workarounds with the local tap water instead.
 
A smaller update.

The pH has dropped from 6.1 down to 5.6 over night. EC is sitting at 1.8mS like yesterday. I have not added any pH down/up to the solution, at all. What I did add this morning is 2 bottle caps of GHE calcium/mag supplement, which would be approx 10ml in 13 gallons. Maybe that will help stabilize the pH?

Will check back when I get back from work, but right now, i'm expecting it to drop to below pH 5, not that it's a linear drop off but it's what has been happening lately.
 
Came home and measured, pH had been lowered to 5.3 now, over the course of about 8 hours. Added a bit of fresh water, since the level had gone down. No other change.

I'm really dumbfounden by this. I have absolutely no idea what is causing the pH to drop all the time and no matter what I do, I can't get it stable. I dont want to run just water and see what happens since the plant itself has a while to go yet.

Anybody that has any input, thoughts or suggestions? What more kind of information can I supply that I haven't already?

I'm going to have to put in some pH up into the solution, since it keeps dropping (my thoughts, we'll see tomorrow). Is there anything I can add to help buffer the pH or something? I've really got no clue on what to do next. Dont want to dump out the water and nutes again because it didnt help the first time.

Sorry but i'm pissed at this.
 
I don't know exactly why your pH is dropping so fast. It's usually the other way around, it rises as the ppm or EC drops. I really don't know the solution as I don't know the problem. I can only suggest you try a fert like has pH buffer in it to attempt more stability. It could be that your containers need to be sterilized as well.
 
polishpollack said:
I don't know exactly why your pH is dropping so fast. It's usually the other way around, it rises as the ppm or EC drops. I really don't know the solution as I don't know the problem. I can only suggest you try a fert like has pH buffer in it to attempt more stability. It could be that your containers need to be sterilized as well.
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I appreciate the help, sorry I sound so negative. I agree, this problem seems to be quite illogical tbh.

I was looking through deficiencies and saw that a copper def. seems to fit my description pretty well. Altough, everybody seems to point as a Cu def. is caused by a pH issue and is basically non-solveable other than that.

I've not been using any cal/mag supplement at all during the grow basically? Could that be a point of concern?
 
I haven’t read the whole thread, but you ignored or attempted to refute most of the good advice I saw. You definitely do not understand pH.

Do you have good air circulation? If you posted what nutrients you are running I missed it, tell me again, please? Can we see a whole plant pic?

Your thread is frankly a fucking dumpster fire, bro, the dumpster those leaves belong in. I am truly sympathetic to your troubles but it looks to me like you may be immune to good advice.
 
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