What the F... Happened

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Hahaha,
As I thought; non stop typical bullshit. Didn't even take the time to read through exactly what is being posted here. No need too right?....No matter what; you are right and the rest of the world is wrong that is not lockstep with you. So typical it is pathetic. No need for open facts on the big picture. All that matters is your political agenda is the only viable solution to an already failed system. It speaks volumes also to see that your argument always ends up the same: belittling, name calling and personal attacks at those that don't agree with you. The only credibility you have at this point is with your like minded haters.......have fun.
Your main point is that Democrats and Republican are two sides of the same coin. You further claim that each side in the election are equally corrupt and everything said about Trump was just as vicious and full of lies as what was said about Clinton.

you are naive.
 

squarepush3r

Well-Known Member
So if we want to ban fake news, should we also start banning Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Religion and Satire? "only objective truth must be spoken or thought!"
 

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
So if we want to ban fake news, should we also start banning Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Religion and Satire? "only objective truth must be spoken or thought!"
Santa Claus, Easter bunny and religion were designed to give children hope and an attempt to make them act morally.

Satire is using humour to address an otherwise touchy subject.

Fake news isn't "news" and if classed purely as entertainment would be fine.
 

squarepush3r

Well-Known Member
Santa Claus, Easter bunny and religion were designed to give children hope and an attempt to make them act morally.
so fake news and lying is OK if the results will be to give hope and have people act morally? It sounds like you are giving a defense of fake news ironically.
 

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
so fake news and lying is OK if the results will be to give hope and have people act morally? It sounds like you are giving a defense of fake news ironically.
I'm saying everything has its place as long as it's represented fairly.

Fake news is not news, but can be entertaining if presented as entertainment instead of news.

Eg. National Enquirer.
 

squarepush3r

Well-Known Member
I'm saying everything has its place as long as it's represented fairly.

Fake news is not news, but can be entertaining if presented as entertainment instead of news.

Eg. National Enquirer.
Then how do you want Religion presented? Should there be a disclaimer at the entrance of every place of religious worship, that all they believe in is fake? Last time I checked Snopes or Politifact were not able to factcheck the existence of God.

Also, then you start declaring a war on science, because all new areas of research of science do not have a "consensus" or an ability to go on Wikipedia to fact check this new information. So basically all science is Fake News until approved by Donald Trump or whatever government agency in charge of enforcement. So basically I do not think you realize this, but you are setting up for Donald Trump to be enforcing fake news, which again is ironic because a lot of this fake news discussion lately is directly in response to people thinking Trump got elected basdd on fake news and ignorant voters.
 
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SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
Then how do you want Religion presented? Should there be a disclaimer at the entrance of every place of religious worship, that all they believe in is fake? Last time I checked Snopes or Politifact were not able to factcheck the existence of God.

Also, then you start declaring a war on science, because all new areas of research of science do not have a "consensus" or an ability to go on Wikipedia to fact check this new information.
Wtf are you talking about?

When you stop tripping balls come back to me and we'll talk.
 

squarepush3r

Well-Known Member
Wtf are you talking about?

When you stop tripping balls come back to me and we'll talk.
ok, you are right i am a bit blazed right now :bigjoint:

So my main point, is you have to allow Fake News because humans do not know everything and incorrect information is as valuable as correct information for future progress and making progress and ideas. This is basically the concept of deep learning and AI advancements and also how human children learn. For example, human children eventually grow up, realize that Santa Claus is not real, however they may see it as still a positive benefit even if it was false (making kids behave, encourage giving and getting along, family time with children)/ This in this case fake news or lies may of had a benefit.

Also, you can still learn a lot from Fake News because of what is not said. To me the idea of censoring fake news will just make the public think less and be stupider if they just lop up anything as gospel if it doesn't have a fake news warning.
 

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
ok, you are right i am a bit blazed right now :bigjoint:

So my main point, is you have to allow Fake News because humans do not know everything and incorrect information is as valuable as correct information for future progress and making progress and ideas. Also, you can still learn a lot from Fake News because of what is not said. To me the idea of censoring fake news will just make the public think less and be stupider if they just lop up anything as gospel if it doesn't have a fake news warning.
But you can't present something as News that isn't fact, that's an intentional perpetuation of mass ignorance.

If you present it as "entertainment" then people know not to use it as a primary source of information.
 

squarepush3r

Well-Known Member
But you can't present something as News that isn't fact, that's an intentional perpetuation of mass ignorance.

If you present it as "entertainment" then people know not to use it as a primary source of information.
You have to present it as real. Because otherwise, what you are saying is that every piece of news that is released has to be verified beforehand, and approved by some authority of body before it can be released. So this is an inefficient process, and we already have bodies that cover that sort of area (for example Wikipedia. or Politifact). So you are saying you want every news source to be a wikipedia, which we already have and already exists, isn't that kind of pointless? So people really need warnings before they read National INquirer at checkout stand? Humans naturally set trust levels on different sources, for example The Boy Who Cried Wolf story is a classic example, basically this kid was fake news and people caught on and stopped listening to him (even if it was at their peril and the wolf eventually came)


But you can't present something as News that isn't fact, that's an intentional perpetuation of mass ignorance.

If you present it as "entertainment" then people know not to use it as a primary source of information.
second amendment ? basically you are going to cut into 2nd amendment if you want to start banning or restricting fake news.
 
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SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
You have to present it as real. Because otherwise, what you are saying is that every piece of news that is released has to be verified beforehand, and approved by some authority of body before it can be released.
It IS supposed to be verified as fact before released or a retraction is supposed to be issued afterwards.

News is for facts, man, hence why it can be relied upon as a primary/secondary source for information.
 

squarepush3r

Well-Known Member
It IS supposed to be verified as fact before released or a retraction is supposed to be issued afterwards.

News is for facts, man, hence why it can be relied upon as a primary/secondary source for information.
Well, plenty of news companies even today get their facts wrong plenty, even big dogs some of which are calling for warnings on fake news. I think people need to realize, news is for selling advertisements. Why did the big dog news stations all have Hillary winning the election by huge margins? Because that is what their customers wanted to hear, thus helping advertisers get more views. If they told the truth that Trump may win or it was 50/50, people who not watch it.

I think people get this indoctrinated view from the public schools that schools only teach you truth/facts, and its an entitlement that you deserve, America #1, drugs are bad, Christopher Columbus badass, CNN/Fox News only tells you the truth, etc...

The truth is now, if you really wanted good quality news sources, you could just find the ones that you think are the most truthful and only listen to them. The whole concept of labeling fake news site, its like that you want other people reading those sites to think the same way you do (forced consensus). However the government also has ulterior motives, they want to be able to control the public, force fake wars if it benefits them, make the public go along with them to elect public officials and have elected officials make decisions as needed to benefit.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Why did the big dog news stations all have Hillary winning the election by huge margins?
You are confused about this. The polls published by the big news stations had the election being very close. Trump was projected to have 30% to 40% chance of winning. Events with those kind of odds happen quite often -- about 30%-40% of the time.

Many people, both in media and average joe on the street types looked at the stat line and saw Clinton called the winner. They were confused about what the pollsters were saying, just like you are. This isn't fake news, however. It's just that most people don't understand these kinds of statistics.

That said, if you insist on using the argument that big dog news stations called the election for Hillary by big margins as justification to claim they were biased then you are basing it on a truthy "sounds true but is not" argument that the right have stupidly wedded themselves to. Of course, your leaders hate the media because those leaders lie all the fucking time -- they have to because the truth is they are all about enriching the super rich elite and that wouldn't sell very well. The truth keeps disagreeing with their propaganda And so, they use lies like the one you parroted to claim the media is the one that lies.

Not saying everything the big dog media outlets say is true. Just saying that they are much more trustworthy than the right wing propaganda outlets (Fox, Breitbart, etc.) or most GOP leadership.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Then how do you want Religion presented? Should there be a disclaimer at the entrance of every place of religious worship, that all they believe in is fake? Last time I checked Snopes or Politifact were not able to factcheck the existence of God.

Also, then you start declaring a war on science, because all new areas of research of science do not have a "consensus" or an ability to go on Wikipedia to fact check this new information. So basically all science is Fake News until approved by Donald Trump or whatever government agency in charge of enforcement. So basically I do not think you realize this, but you are setting up for Donald Trump to be enforcing fake news, which again is ironic because a lot of this fake news discussion lately is directly in response to people thinking Trump got elected basdd on fake news and ignorant voters.
Isn't religion founded upon belief without proof? Quoting a bible or any other religious text, carries the "not proven" warning label already. Just the name "Catholic Church" or "1st Baptist Church" or "Synagogue" helps others understand the differences they can expect from their own religious creed. So, actually, your idea of a fake news warning at entrances to religious institutions is already in place.

Science requires proof or a consistent set of facts before belief. Of course, some ideas that explain the world around us can't be proven, yet there are a consistent set of facts to show these ideas are probably true and useful to explain the world around us. Scientists call these explanations, "theories". Einstein's theory of relativity, for example isn't proven but his theory explains the universe better than Newton's theories did. In a way, "theory" is also a warning label that science applies to a scientific belief that has not been completely proven.

This all comes down to honesty about the limits of our understanding of the spiritual and material worlds. Your analogies linking religion and science to fake news falls apart here. Fake news is dishonest made up shit that is written purposely. It comes with no warning labels and presents itself as truth when it is actually a deliberate lie. Writers of fake news have gotten very good at writing lies that draw people's interest so that they will go viral. It costs nothing to produce and distribute too. Fake news degrades the value of news sharing on a site like Facebook. Facebook has every right to decide how to flag or filter out fake news to protect its brand.

Also instances like the pizzagate investigator-thug who menaced a counter worker at the business implicated in the fake story puts the lie to this as a harmless development. That incident was a near-miss but the next incident might not be. In this way, fake news is similar to shouting "fire" in a crowded theater. There are laws against that and I see no reason why we shouldn't have laws to prevent intimidation, threats and the potential harm of victims of a fake news story.
 
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UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Also instances like the pizzagate investigator-thug who menaced a counter worker at the business implicated in the fake story puts the lie to this as a harmless development. That incident was a near-miss but the next incident might not be. In this way, fake news is similar to shouting "fire" in a crowded theater. There are laws against that and I see no reason why we shouldn't have laws to prevent intimidation, threats and the potential harm of victims of a fake news story.
we've already known that fake news kills.



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