Whats wrong with my plants?

lawlzcake9000 · Aug 1, 2018

PigKiller said:
Do you allow the pots to dry out? How do you check if they need water? How much run off? A good rinsing of your soil might be needed to remove salts.
Might want to start lighting up on nutes as you go further into flowering.

When I flipped to flower I use 1 table spoon of Big Bloom and 1 teaspoon of Tiger bloom per gallon. I recently just started using 2 table spoons and 2 teaspoons. I allow the pots to dry out, I pick them up to test and I water. I use 3 gal smart pots and use (2) 1 gallon jugs on all 3 plants.. They all 3 have run off but not much.

Kushash · Aug 1, 2018

lawlzcake9000 said:
I don't know the PPMS of my water. I will order a meter tomorrow. I've just been PHing out of the tap and its been at (8.9) and then add nutrients and measure with PH and use Up and down to get to 6.0-6.5.. At first I was doing Fox Farm Big Bloom 1 Table spoon per gallon and then 2 teaspoon of Tiger Bloom. I watered by picking up my plants to see if its really light and water. By then I saw that every 2 days it got dry so I watered it... and just been sticking to that. Am I really watering too much? The soil is pretty dry by day 2.

You would be surprised how long they can go without water if you haven't tried it.
Maybe you are right and your smart pots are light in 2 days.
The best way to learn is to watch a plant everyday and hold off watering to see how many days it goes without drooping.
When it droops from lack of water it bounces back quickly when watered.

A meter to test your water will run about $40 and is an important tool.
If your water is hard it needs to be cut with RO water.

Beachwalker · Aug 2, 2018

I seriously doubt it's true that most long time Growers stopped pHing their liquids. I haven't, for one.

An example: I started growing again 3 years ago, shortly after that I broke my leg, last thing I wanted to do was go mix up newts and pH and all, so when I finally dragged my ass into the garden I had a bucket of water straight from the tap and I put it in three beautiful white widows

3 or 4 days later they were unrecognizable as the same plants, and they continued to get worse for a while too..

Took a month or so to get them back to where they were, and all this from one bad watering!

So if you want to dump just any old water in go ahead, and you'll find out the truth in this matter quickly.

Regarding soil "buffering" your pH:

There's a big difference between all the soil in the world, and the all the soil in your little 3 gallon bucket!

For outside growing, all the soil in the world will buffer your water, agreed.

However all the soil in a little 3 or 5 gallon bucket, not so much, you'll see the difference really fast op, depending on the pH of your tap water, and you won't like it. Good luck!

Beachwalker · Aug 2, 2018

PigKiller said:
I've looked into it and many cities are kicking up the ph to protect old pipes; and you should get a water report or just test your tap water. But getting a ph of 8.9 out of the tap is extreme for a large water system. In smaller towns or in rural areas I'm sure it can get that high but people will start noticing a bitter taste in that range.
I grow in soil and I just don't worry too much about ph. Bad ph in soil is not a cause of problems, it's a symptom of something else, but everyone is quick to start adding stuff instead of fixing their real problems (over watering, too little/many nutes, bad soil mix, ect.).

Just the cities that border my city alone are close to a million people, and the people that are on the same water as me is well in the millions and I suspect many or most larger Metro areas like mine are in similar shape, so I feel it's irresponsible to tell people just go dump water in, not knowing what's coming of their tap..

And whereas getting pH set properly for noobs is difficult at best, I would hate to see people say 'Geez that's great, no more screwing around with pH meters or litmus paper" and start screwing up their grows with information that may or may not be accurate

.. again there's a lot of ways to skin a cat and frankly if my water was coming out of my tap between six and seven I wouldn't pH it either, but I don't think it's a positive rule of thumb for the indoor Grower to just dump any water in their Garden

jbcCT said:
I use tap water every year on my outdoor plants. Dont even have a ph water meter. I never have issues with my plants because I leave them alone and let them grow.

I have never however watered my plants every two days. I'm of the opinion marijuana grows best on the dry side. My ladies get full sun, 85-90 temps and I water very modestly every 5-7 days.

Over watering and too many nutrients cause 90% of all problems I believe.

Op is growing indoors

Beachwalker · Aug 2, 2018

lawlzcake9000 said:
I don't know the PPMS of my water. I will order a meter tomorrow. I've just been PHing out of the tap and its been at (8.9) and then add nutrients and measure with PH and use Up and down to get to 6.0-6.5.. At first I was doing Fox Farm Big Bloom 1 Table spoon per gallon and then 2 teaspoon of Tiger Bloom. I watered by picking up my plants to see if its really light and water. By then I saw that every 2 days it got dry so I watered it... and just been sticking to that. Am I really watering too much? The soil is pretty dry by day 2.

That's the same pH as I have, so let me leave you with some advice considering we're working with the same basic water (mines around 100 PPM by the way, check yours when you get your meter)

When feeding plain water bring it down to 6.5, not "6 - 6.5", keep it steady at 6.5 for best results.

When feeding newts, add desired amount of newts, then check and adjust pH to 6.5

These two easy steps will at least take the pH worries out of growing for you, best of luck going forward!

Edit: op, not saying pH is or isn't your issue, as I said in first post need more info, but I will tell you that this is how you want to treat your pH going forward for best results. Square away your pH & PPM when you get your meters and then see if your issue clears up, if not then come back and we'll talk about humidity and other possible issues

Kushash · Aug 2, 2018

Beachwalker said:
I seriously doubt it's true that most long time Growers stopped pHing their liquids. I haven't, for one.

An example: I started growing again 3 years ago, shortly after that I broke my leg, last thing I wanted to do was go mix up newts and pH and all, so when I finally dragged my ass into the garden I had a bucket of water straight from the tap and I put it in three beautiful white widows

3 or 4 days later they were unrecognizable as the same plants, and they continued to get worse for a while too..

Took a month or so to get them back to where they were, and all this from one bad watering!

So if you want to dump just any old water in go ahead, and you'll find out the truth in this matter quickly.

Regarding soil "buffering" your pH:

There's a big difference between all the soil in the world, and the all the soil in your little 3 gallon bucket!

For outside growing, all the soil in the world will buffer your water, agreed.

However all the soil in a little 3 or 5 gallon bucket, not so much, you'll see the difference really fast op, depending on the pH of your tap water, and you won't like it. Good luck!

Maybe water should be PH'ed when someone is using synthetic nutes in soil IDK, I don't use them.
If the grower has years of experience growing with a quality soil, quality water and only uses organic inputs then I think you will find the majority of growers on RIU in that situation are not PH'ing their water.
I can only speak for myself. I never PH and I often have picture perfect plants going into flower.
My water from the tap has a PH of 8 and has a ppm reading of 400-500 and I cut it with RO to 150ppms.
If you don't believe me start a thread in the organics section asking if growers PH their water and I bet the majority of the best growers say no.

Og grumble · Aug 2, 2018

Kushash said:
Maybe water should be PH'ed when someone is using synthetic nutes in soil IDK, I don't use them.
If the grower has years of experience growing with a quality soil, quality water and only uses organic inputs then I think you will find the majority of growers on RIU in that situation are not PH'ing their water.
I can only speak for myself. I never PH and I often have picture perfect plants going into flower.
My water from the tap has a PH of 8 and has a ppm reading of 400-500 and I cut it with RO to 150ppms.
If you don't believe me start a thread in the organics section asking if growers PH their water and I bet the majority of the best growers say no.

Word. I still ph my water because im paranoid but some of the best organic growers, including clackamas cootz, will tell you that its unnecessary if you have a high quality living organic soil.

Beachwalker said:
I seriously doubt it's true that most long time Growers stopped pHing their liquids. I haven't, for one.

An example: I started growing again 3 years ago, shortly after that I broke my leg, last thing I wanted to do was go mix up newts and pH and all, so when I finally dragged my ass into the garden I had a bucket of water straight from the tap and I put it in three beautiful white widows

3 or 4 days later they were unrecognizable as the same plants, and they continued to get worse for a while too..

Took a month or so to get them back to where they were, and all this from one bad watering!

So if you want to dump just any old water in go ahead, and you'll find out the truth in this matter quickly.

Regarding soil "buffering" your pH:

There's a big difference between all the soil in the world, and the all the soil in your little 3 gallon bucket!

For outside growing, all the soil in the world will buffer your water, agreed.

However all the soil in a little 3 or 5 gallon bucket, not so much, you'll see the difference really fast op, depending on the pH of your tap water, and you won't like it. Good luck!

Nitrifying bacteria do not generally like acidic environments; their numbers (and hence the conversion of nitrogen into nitrates) therefore diminish when soil pH drops below 7. Bacterial slime happens to have a pH above 7. Thus, if there are enough bacteria in an area, the slime they produce keeps the pH in their vicinity above 7, and nitrification can occur.
The same goes with fungi but in the acidic spectrum. So if you have a real organic living soil with real organic inputs and a healthy balanced soil food web the microbes will keep the ph pretty balanced. Now im not saying that newbs shouldnt worry about ph if their bag of commercial soil says its organic. And im definitely not saying you can dump any unknown water into quality living soil. But if you do have high quality living soil, there is room to work with when it comes to ph and the need to be precise (as far as ph, ppm, etc) is out the window.

lawlzcake9000 said:
I don't know the PPMS of my water. I will order a meter tomorrow. I've just been PHing out of the tap and its been at (8.9) and then add nutrients and measure with PH and use Up and down to get to 6.0-6.5.. At first I was doing Fox Farm Big Bloom 1 Table spoon per gallon and then 2 teaspoon of Tiger Bloom. I watered by picking up my plants to see if its really light and water. By then I saw that every 2 days it got dry so I watered it... and just been sticking to that. Am I really watering too much? The soil is pretty dry by day 2.

Like kushash said, you would really be surprised how long these plants can go without water. I have had plants that were fine after almost 2 weeks with no water. Environment should be considered, of course. But if you actually have to water every 2 days you most likely need a bigger container. And with the fox farm nutes you definitely need to be precise so get an accurate meter and ph it to 6.5 everytime.

Og grumble · Aug 2, 2018

also i would never suggest going 2 weeks without watering. Well it was 12 days but still, it was an extreme situation and its not a regular thing that happens in my garden. But it happened and the plants were perfectly healthy.

lawlzcake9000 · Aug 3, 2018

Just watered plants with 6.5 ph. Did a runoff PH and it was at 6.0 . I will get a EC meter later this week. How long do I flush for? Until the runoff PH is at 6.5?

Lucky Luke · Aug 3, 2018

lawlzcake9000 said:
Just watered plants with 6.5 ph. Did a runoff PH and it was at 6.0 . I will get a EC meter later this week. How long do I flush for? Until the runoff PH is at 6.5?

Your not flushing you are leaching the soil of unwanted salt build up.

In coco I believe you leach till the same PH is coming out as in. In soil its approx three times the size of the pot. If its a 10L pot then leach with 30 litres of water.

PURPLEB3RRYKUSH · Aug 3, 2018

Beachwalker said:
That's terrible advice to give Noobs. And its not correct. My pH out of the faucet is 8.9, if I put that in my plants the plants are going to die. Ever hear of pH lockout?

So going by what you say: Today I put in straight tap water at 8.9.

Tomorrow I add my newts and pH comes down to 5.8, you think that's what the plants want, bouncing pH around like that?

..that's terrible advice to give to nubes in particular who might not know better

im in the same boat my taps 8.6, sucks

PURPLEB3RRYKUSH · Aug 3, 2018

Lucky Luke said:
Agreed.

Most long time soil growers don't PH. Go to your local park or gardens and see all those exotic plants....all in the same soil as the natives.

Most bagged soil contains Lime and buffers a fair bit so it can be used for a range of plants.

they don't ph in soil because rain water is a buffer

PURPLEB3RRYKUSH · Aug 3, 2018

Beachwalker said:
That's the same pH as I have, so let me leave you with some advice considering we're working with the same basic water (mines around 100 PPM by the way, check yours when you get your meter)

When feeding plain water bring it down to 6.5, not "6 - 6.5", keep it steady at 6.5 for best results.

When feeding newts, add desired amount of newts, then check and adjust pH to 6.5

These two easy steps will at least take the pH worries out of growing for you, best of luck going forward!

Edit: op, not saying pH is or isn't your issue, as I said in first post need more info, but I will tell you that this is how you want to treat your pH going forward for best results. Square away your pH & PPM when you get your meters and then see if your issue clears up, if not then come back and we'll talk about humidity and other possible issues

Im at 190 ppm 8.6 my tap

Lucky Luke · Aug 3, 2018

PURPLEB3RRYKUSH said:
they don't ph in soil because rain water is a buffer

Its more to do with bagged soil is sold to grow a variety of plants in. Plants in general prefer the 6 to 7 PH range so that's what the majority of bagged soil suites. The buffer solutions in the soil are used to prevent PH from fluctuating within the medium

But I dont see why people use RO water when rain water is free. I run my whole house on rain water.

Vegetable Optimal pH
Artichoke(globe) 5.6-6.6
Asparagus 6.5-7.5
Avocado 6.0-7.0
Beans 6.0-7.0
Beet 5.6-6.6
Broccoli 6.0-7.0
Brussels Sprouts 6.0-7.0
Cabbage 5.6-6.6
Cantaloupe 6.0-7.0
Carrot 5.0-6.0
Catnip 5.0-6.0
Cauliflower 6.0-7.0
Celery 6.0-7.0
Chard 6.0-7.0
Chili pepper 5.0-6.0
Chives 5.0-6.0
Cucumber 5.0-6.0
Dill 5.0-6.0
Eggplant 5.0-6.0
Garlic 5.0-6.0
Gourds 5.0-6.0
Kiwi 5.0-7.0
Leek 5.0-6.0
Lettuce 6.5-7.0
Mint 6.0-7.0
Mushroom 7.0-8.0
Vegetable Optimal pH
Okra 6.0-8.0
Onions 6.2-6.8
Parsley 6.0-8.0
Parsnip 5.0-7.0
Peas 5.6-6.6
Peanuts 5.0-6.0
Peppers 6.0-8.0
Potato 5.8-6.5
Pumpkins 5.0-7.0
Radish 6.0-7.0
Raspberry 6.0-6.5
Rhubarb 5.0-7.0
Rutabaga 5.0-7.0
Shallots 5.0-7.0
Spinach 5.0-7.0
Squash 6.0-7.0
Strawberries 6.0-7.0
Sunflowers 6.0-7.0
Sweet corn 6.0-7.0
Sweet potatoes 5.0-7.0
Swiss chard 6.0-7.0
Tobacco 5.0-7.0
Tomatoes 5.5-7.0
Turnip 5.0-7.0
Yam 6.0-8.0
Zucchini 6.0-7.0

lawlzcake9000 · Aug 8, 2018

Okay let me get this straight.. I just measured my tap and its at 294ppm.. Should I fill up 2 gallon of water, let it sit out for 24hrs and then put all my nutes I have been using again and get a ppm of 1000 for flowering? and PH of 6.5. Thanks.

lawlzcake9000 · Aug 8, 2018

They seem to be getting worse.

Gorilla Mike · Aug 8, 2018

lawlzcake9000 said:
White Widow and Blueberry F23 days..
FFOF Soil
3 Gal Smartpots
I water them with 6.0-6.5 PH
CalMag 5ml
I use FF Trio. I currently water them every 2 days and I'll switch from just water->nutes->water.
Anyone know why this is happening to them? Rust on my white widow and looks like nuteburn on my Blueberry..

Hey Cake!

What’s an FF Trio? FoxFarm? Sorry I’m not into new nute slang. I myself don’t like fabric pots and this may be part of your problem. I don’t understand your picture either. You have healthy leaves and one bad one. What is this supposed to represent? IbcCT has good advice if you believe his theory. It does good by him but I’m totally different. I like watering everyday a little to keep my soil moist. My plants hate it when I try the DRY method. The bad leaf looks like it came from a plant where the lights were too close or they’re not getting enough nutes and water or all 3. I’m not trying to fuck you up with my contrary advice, its just the way I see it. But you fuck us up when you don’t show the whole plant, just a few healthy leaves and one bad one. So, here’s what I would do: just feed the sick plant to your gerbils, or rabbits if you got em and start over. My horses get all the stalk and stem waste and we have the healthiest horses around. Before you start over, think of how you grew your last good crop and copy that. The last time I got a sick plant (which is rare) I was experimenting with a new LED called “Electric Sky” and it killed my whole experimental crop of 4 plants. For our 5000 plants we use greenhouses in summer and an old mine shaft in winter with regular MH and HPS lights. When I called the guy to tell him what his new light did to my little experimental crop he got pissed at me and said I burned the plants by hanging the light too close. I told him I followed his instructions to the “T” Instead of refunding my money back he just hung up on me. That’s why I always have a little experimental grow in my basement apart from my main crop. We can’t afford to fuck around trying new things with the main crop if we change anything in our regular grow. So always record every thing you do for a new experimental crop so you’ll know what you did right and what you did wrong. That’s how I found the best auto-trimmer –by buying every one out there! Now we use 5 Tom’sTumbleTrimmers because they trim perfectly, no resin sticks to them and because they’re not complicated with blades and they never break down or need cleaning and maintenance. So trial and error may seem like a long painful process but its worth it in the end. If those good leaves you showed us are from a different plant or crop, just grow another one using everything you did to grow that good one and you’ll be fine. If you can’t remember, then re-learn the basic fundamentals with whatever medium you choose and start over from there.

Lucky Luke · Aug 8, 2018

lawlzcake9000 said:
They seem to be getting worse.

Looks to me to be a lack of mag and /or sulphur. Have you given any cal/mag or mag/sulphate? If not I'd suggest to mix up a dose of Epsom salts and just use that as the next feed.

If you have been leaching at all remember that nearly everything you did have in your soil got washed away.

I don't do the whole PPM thing and have never owned a meter but 1000ppm sounds high. I'm sure someone with more experience in that area will chime in.

lawlzcake9000 · Aug 8, 2018

Gorilla Mike said:
Hey Cake!

What’s an FF Trio? FoxFarm? Sorry I’m not into new nute slang. I myself don’t like fabric pots and this may be part of your problem. I don’t understand your picture either. You have healthy leaves and one bad one. What is this supposed to represent? IbcCT has good advice if you believe his theory. It does good by him but I’m totally different. I like watering everyday a little to keep my soil moist. My plants hate it when I try the DRY method. The bad leaf looks like it came from a plant where the lights were too close or they’re not getting enough nutes and water or all 3. I’m not trying to fuck you up with my contrary advice, its just the way I see it. But you fuck us up when you don’t show the whole plant, just a few healthy leaves and one bad one. So, here’s what I would do: just feed the sick plant to your gerbils, or rabbits if you got em and start over. My horses get all the stalk and stem waste and we have the healthiest horses around. Before you start over, think of how you grew your last good crop and copy that. The last time I got a sick plant (which is rare) I was experimenting with a new LED called “Electric Sky” and it killed my whole experimental crop of 4 plants. For our 5000 plants we use greenhouses in summer and an old mine shaft in winter with regular MH and HPS lights. When I called the guy to tell him what his new light did to my little experimental crop he got pissed at me and said I burned the plants by hanging the light too close. I told him I followed his instructions to the “T” Instead of refunding my money back he just hung up on me. That’s why I always have a little experimental grow in my basement apart from my main crop. We can’t afford to fuck around trying new things with the main crop if we change anything in our regular grow. So always record every thing you do for a new experimental crop so you’ll know what you did right and what you did wrong. That’s how I found the best auto-trimmer –by buying every one out there! Now we use 5 Tom’sTumbleTrimmers because they trim perfectly, no resin sticks to them and because they’re not complicated with blades and they never break down or need cleaning and maintenance. So trial and error may seem like a long painful process but its worth it in the end. If those good leaves you showed us are from a different plant or crop, just grow another one using everything you did to grow that good one and you’ll be fine. If you can’t remember, then re-learn the basic fundamentals with whatever medium you choose and start over from there.

Hey there,
Yes i am using fox farm trio. Which is tiger bloom, big bloom, and grow big. The pictures you see above this post is the Blueberry Dutch Passion that has all the nutrient deficiencies. The picture that shows the whole tent its the plant on the far right. The middle pic is the one with the rust and the far left is perfectly fine. I have been using calmag 5ml per gallon of water. I have been using lately 2 tablespoon of big bloom, 2 teaspoon of tiger bloom. So do you really think I should toss the plant? Whats the harm in letting it continue its course?

Budzbuddha · Aug 8, 2018

Mix up cal mag in plain water for INBETWEEN WATERINGS ( when not feeding ) ph around
6.3 to 6.5 ... typical spotting .

Rest of plant looks good so it’s not a full problem .
Leaves will not recover so only look for new progression. .

FF Nutes are notorious for salt buildup , concentrate on a lower n , higher pk feed.
Big bloom and tiger . Be aware that tiger is pretty strong so try to keep mixes a little lighter.

I found less is more when running FF ... remember that FF Soil is very charged with amendments already. It technically can run a plant all by itself with little addition , so much so ... I would do TEAS with the soil steeping in a cheesecloth bag in aerated ( air stone ) tap water and water only that.
All thru flowering.

Whats wrong with my plants?

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