Whats wrong with my setup? plants are sick can't figure out why! help!

Hey guys this is my first indoor session and i just setup my closet with a 400w hps posted about 2-3 feet from 8 plants potted in 8' containers. I used fox farm ocean forest soil and added a bit of vermiculite (starting to think i should have added perilite instead)

most of them are various kush strains green/bubba/purple

OK so first of all these are clones that i purchased at my local medical dispensary and they were nice and green and healthy when i bought them and already had nice white root systems. They were in rockwool cubes that i just planted straight into the fox farm ocean forest soil.

little by little they started looking worse so ive been adjusting how much fan air is blowing at them, how far the light is, how much water i give them and i can't seem to get a good balance. the room is kept between 76-81 degrees usually. not sure about humidity but i think its pretty dry

at first i thought this was an underwatering problem because the plants started to droop a lot and the leaves started folding in on themselves and drooping down and getting brittle and turning yellow. Also forming little tiny shiny silvery lines on some of the leaves and shiny spots. this was weird because i had been giving them plenty of water. I'm using bay area tap water and the only thing i could check was the PH and it looked like just below 7 although it is kind of a cheap soil tester with probes. So i thought the water was find so i kept using it. Wellthe plants kept getting worse and did some research and found that they were getting too much water (i think) so i stopped watering and let the soil dry out and low and behold they started to look better. and pointing upwards.

They began to look ok but the soil was getting really dry and i was afraid to give them more water because of what happened before so i let i dry out some more only for like a day and a half. So they were pretty dry and last night i watered them with a little bit of B vitamin solution mixed 20% with water and woke up this morning to a dismal looking crop. leaves started to twist and droop again and growth seems like its VERY SLOW. the tips of newly forming vegetation are browning at the very tips like they are being stunted. a couple of them are older than others so they vary is sizes but don't seem to be growing like they should. its only been a week and a half but i figured i would see more growth.

i've had these clones for about a week now. these are what i think could be issues

1. the fox farm ocean forest i used might be a little strong for newly rooted clones
2. i didn't add too much vermiculite about 15% but i'm beginning to think that there isn't proper drainage and the roots are being affected so i keep poking holes in the soil and cultivating the top soil to try to get even distribution.
3. the tap water i'm using has the correct PH but im afraid it might have some other kind of deficiency like too much chlorine or magnesium because to me it looks like chlorosis because they are getting blotchy brown spots and yellowing.
4. somehow humidity might be a factor because i have a small 6" fan blowing right onto them but it seems like it was drying them out more so i tried to move it so it wasn't directly blowing onthe plants.
5. my light source is either too far or not close enough because i keep moving it up and down depending of how sick the plants look. its about 28" from most plants in a 3' x 3' area
6. the plants drooped from overwater then got better when dry then got worse after watering again. and i definitely didn't use very much water when i watered them just to see their reaction and they got worse this morning definitely stunted growth somehow.
7. transplant shock? just shock from replanting the clones causing them to be more vulnerable
8. my grow room is in a closet and because of poor circulation and lack of fans i have the door open at all times and a fan blowing fresh air into the closet so maybe something about not having an enclosed environment is keeping them from obtaining a balanced diet. this is my first indoor setup
9. i keep a bunch of shoes on shelves above my setup in the closet due to lack of space like 10 pairs. perhaps the fumes of the rubber or the used shoes are changing the air in the closet to be toxic to plants? no idea just a thought. and yes i know i am trying to find a place for them asap to keep my grow room clean.


questions:

should i use distilled water instead of tap water when watering plants? trying to keep cost down. are there better or cheap ways to fix my tap water? what is a reliable and cheap multimeter? i've got the lusterleaf 4 in 1 and it works ok. not digital though just simple sensors with 3 metal prongs

should i transplant all my plants in to soil with more drainage? im afraid this will stress the plants even more if i do it now?

my clones came with roots already throughout the rock wool cube does putting it in soil count as transplanting? or just planting. do plants get stressed from this?

does fluctuation of 3-5 degrees seriously affect the plant if it happens a couple time a day?

If i've stunted the growth of the plants will they recover? or should i not waste my time and just buy new plants?

thanks so much for any info that can be given i've invested a good amount of money to be able to grow my own medicine. here's a few pictures.
greatly appreciate any help

they are definitely shrinking so i've taken the fan off them now. not really sure what i should do they look like they are drying up and getting brittle and brown butthe soil is wet. i just poked more holes in the soil for air. the top of the plants look ok but the rest look like its dying. would a transplant make them worse?

and the water ive been using is good enough to drink. tastes fine to me. i even let the water sit for a day before using it and still bad results

also the bottom stems have slightly pinkish/red lines running down them but the new veg at the top has more greenish stems. is this normal ?

O and they have been under 24 hours of constant 400w high pressure sodium for a week and a half
ive been troubleshooting all day and i think i might have found out the problem.

so i kept testing and retesting the PH of my tap water to make sure that it stays around nuetral and found that the water's ph had dropped 1-2 points. i thought this was odd so i checked the ph of water i had left out for a day and it too had dropped in ph.

so i said forget tap water and went to the grocery and bought some arrowhead distilled water to use when replanting.

i had been using a B vitamin solution because i heard this helps with root growth since these are newly rooted clones and i found that this stuff greatly reduces the ph of the distilled water! like 4-5 points! i was astonished and amazed that i had been feeding my plants this water. poor things!!

so i just finished replanting them and i don't have the resources yet to get more perilite so just cut more fox farm ocean forest with the heavy vermiculited soil i was using to try to get a smaller amount of vermiculite in each pot. then i flushed them with distilled water and poked a few holes in the soil and put them back under the light. lets see how they do..

does anyone know if using too much B vitamin solution is really bad for plants and would stunt their growth? and have these kind of affects to the leaves?

i also added a little bit of steer manure to experiment on one of the pots in case this is a nutrients issue. although i've heard that Fox farm ocean forest is packed with nutrients

i plan on putting them on an 18/6 cycle and see if that helps

heres my thoughts. Looks like watering problems to me too. The soil doesnt look evenly saturated to me. Whae you water make sure their is water coming out of the bottom of the pots. when you water water thouroughly and than dont water again until the soil is dry. Those sized pots probaly need watered every 2-3 days or so. I wouldnt recommend using such a powerful light for the time being just use som cfls until they start to take off. Sometimes plants are stunted and takes a couple weeks to get back but the most important thing right now is strong healthy roots. o yeah let your tap water sit out for 24 hours before you water and some of those cantaminants are actually evaporated. Better than buying distilled water all the time take it from me.

yup, over watering sounds like the problem...leavem b theywill do their thing checkem every few days. ur plants are small u dnt have topump them full of everything you can find on the shelf. Also for the waterproblem if you really do have too much Cl in your tap it can be eliminated withvitamin C "C6H8O6." FreeCarbon gladly takes Cl. A long term fix put filter housing under your sink runyour cold water line into it. You can get a carbon filter for it thateliminates the Cl...I’ve tested it and it works

Just used a brita filter! I know plenty of real time growers that do that.

yes, it looks like a bit of overwatering with the humidity being a bit too high. Pipe Dream recommends cfl's for the short term and I think he is right. Untill the roots have a chance to get established in the soil keep em under cfl's. Question, you say the new growth looks fine its just the lower growth thats having a hard time..... what kind of light was the club using for the clones? if they were under cfl then the HPS could be burning the leaves. When you move them from the cfl's try putting them under the HPS for an hour a day and slowly increase over the next couple days.

wut is your ph?

farmer: you have bigger problems then just over watering. though it looks like that as well. you are deficient in some type of nutrient.



Cannabis Nutrient And Deficiency Table





SYMPTOMS N P K Ca S Mg Fe Mn B Mb Zn Cu Over Fert. Yellow Upper Leaves No No No No Yes No Yes No No No No No No Yellow Middle Leaves No No No No No No No No No Yes No No No Yellow Lower Leaves Yes Yes Yes No No Yes No No No No No No No Red Stems Yes Yes Yes No No Yes No No No No No No No Necrosis No No Yes No No Yes No Yes Yes No No Yes No Spots No No No No No No No Yes No No No No No Growing Shoots Die No No No No No No No No Yes No No No No White Leaf Tips No No No No No Yes No No No No Yes No No Stunted Growth Yes Yes No Yes No No No No No No No No No Deformed New Growth No Yes No No No No No No No No No No No Yellow Tips No No No No No No No No No No No No Yes Twisted Growth No No No No No No No No Yes No No No No


NITROGEN (N) Pale plants, red stems, smaller growth. Rapid yellowing of lower leaves progressing up the plant. Add any chemical fertilizer containing N. Treated plants recover in about a week.

PHOSPHORUS (P) Slow or stunted growth, red stems. Smaller leaves that are dark green. Lower leaves yellow and die. Add chemical fertilizer containing P. Affected leaves will not show recovery but new growth will apear normal.

POTASSIUM (K) Affected plants are usually tallest and appear to be most vigorous. Necrotic spots form on lower leaves. Red stems. Leaves appear pale or yellow. Add chemical fertilizer containing K.

CALCIUM (Ca) Lack of calcium in the soil results in the soil becoming too acid. This leads to Mg or Fe deficiency or very slow stunted growth. Treat by foliar feeding with one teaspoon of dolomatic lime per quart of water until condition improves.

SULFER (S) Plants suffering from S definciencies exhibit yellowing of new growth. Mix one tablespoon of Epsom salts per gallon of water until condition improves.

MAGNESIUM (Mg) Lower leaves yellow and may even turn white while veins remain dark green. Blades die and curl upward.

IRON (Fe) Leaves on growing shoots turn pale and veins remain dark green. pH imbalances make iron insoluble. Foliar feed with chemical fertilizer containing Fe or rusty water.

MANGANESE (Mn) Necrotic and yellow spots form on top leaves. Mn deficiency occurs when large amounts of Mg are present in the soil. Foliar feed with any chemical fertilizer containing Mn.

BORON (B) Growing shoots turn grey or die. Growing shoots appear burnt. Treat with one teaspoon of Boric acid (sold as eyewash) per gallon of water.

MOLYBDENUM (Mb) Yellowing of middle leaves. Foliar feed with chemical fertilizer containing Mb.

ZINC (Zn) White areas form at leaf tips and between veins. Occurs in alkaline soils. Zn deficiency can be treated by burying galvanized nails in the soil. Chemical fertilizer containing Zn can also be used.

OVER FERTILIZATION Causes leaf tips to appear yellow or burnt. To correct soil should be flushed with three gallons of water per one gallon of soil.

hang on...lol that doesnt look right.





Over Watering










As seen in figure 10 consumption of nitrogen (N) from the fan leaves during the final phase of flowing is 100% normal.



Figure 12 shows Phosphorus (P) deficiency during vegatative growth. Many people mistaken this for a fungus, but look for the damage to occur near the end of leave, and leaves the color dull greyish with a very brittle texture.

This condition is rare and usually buffered by pH limitations. Excess phosphorus can interfere with the availability and stability of copper and zinc.


Potassium is involved in maintaining the water status of the plant and the tugor pressure of it's cells and the opening and closing of the stomata. Potassium is required in the accumulation and translocation of carbohydrates. Lack of potassium will reduce yield and quality.

Older leaves are initially chlorotic but soon develop dark necrotic lesions (dead tissue). First apparent on the tips and margins of the leaves. Stem and branches may become weak and easily broken, the plant may also stretch. The plant will become susceptible to disease and toxicity. In addition to appearing to look like iron deficiency, the tips of the leaves curl and the edges burn and die.
Potassium - Too much sodium (Na) displaces K, causing a K deficiency. Sources of high salinity are: baking soda (sodium bicarbonate "pH-up"), too much manure, and the use of water-softening filters (which should not be used). If the problem is Na, flush the soil. K can get locked up from too much Ca or ammonium nitrogen, and possibly cold weather.

Usually not absorbed excessively by plants. Excess potassium can aggravate the uptake of magnesium, manganese, zinc and iron and effect the availability of calcium.


Magnesium is a component of the chlorophyll molecule and serves as a cofactor in most enzymes.

Magnesium deficiency will exhibit a yellowing (which may turn brown) and interveinal chlorosis beginning in the older leaves. The older leaves will be the first to develop interveinal chlorosis. Starting at leaf margin or tip and progressing inward between the veins. Notice how the veins remain somewhat green though as can be seen in figure 15.
Notice how in Figure 16 and 17 the leaves curl upwards like they're praying? They're praying for Mg! The tips may also twist.
This can be quickly resolved by watering with 1 tablespoon Epsom salts/gallon of water. Until you can correct nutrient lockout, try foliar feeding. That way the plants get all the nitrogen and Mg they need. The plants can be foliar feed at ½ teaspoon/quart of Epsom salts (first powdered and dissolved in some hot water). When mixing up soil, use 2 teaspoon dolomite lime per gallon of soil.
If the starting water is above 200 ppm, that is pretty hard water, that will lock out mg with all of the calcium in the water. Either add a 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of epsom salts or lime (both will effectively reduce the lockout or invest into a reverse osmosis water filter.
Mg can get locked-up by too much Ca, Cl or ammonium nitrogen. Don't overdo Mg or you'll lock up other nutrients.

Magnesium toxicity is rare and not generally exhibited visibly. Extreme high levels will antagonize other ions in the nutrient solution.


Zinc plays a roll in the same enzyme functions as manganese and magnesium. More than eighty enzymes contain tightly bound zinc essential for their function. Zinc participates in chlorophyll formation and helps prevent chlorophyll destruction. Carbonic anhydrate has been found to be specifically activated by zinc.

Deficiencies appear as chlorosis in the inter-veinal areas of new leaves producing a banding appearance as seen in figure 18. This may be accompany reduction of leaf size and a shortening between internodes. Leaf margins are often distorted or wrinkled. Branch terminals of fruit will die back in severe cases.
Also gets locked out due to high pH. Zn, Fe, and Mn deficiencies often occur together, and are usually from a high pH. Don't overdo the micro-nutrients- lower the pH if that's the problem so the nutrients become available. Foliar feed if the plant looks real bad. Use chelated zinc. Zinc deficiency produces "little leaf" in many species, especially woody ones; the younger leaves are distinctly smaller than normal. Zinc defeciency may also produce "rosetting"; the stem fails to elongate behind the growing tip, so that the terminal leaves become tightly bunched.


Excess Zinc is extremely toxic and will cause rapid death. Excess zinc interferes with iron causing chlorosis from iron deficiency. Excess will cause sensitive plants to become chlorotic.


Immobile elements will show their first symptoms on younger leaves and progress to the whole plant.


Sulfate is involved in protein synthesis and is part of the amino acids, cystine and thiamine, which are the building blocks of proteins. It is active in the structure and metabolism in the plant. It is essential for respiration and the synthesis and breakdown of fatty acids.

The initial symptoms are the yellowing of the entire leaf including veins usually starting with the younger leaves. Leaf tips may yellow and curl downward. Sulfur deficiencies are light green fruit or younger leaves with a lack of succulence. Elongated roots and woody stem. Although it's hard to see in figure 19, the upper stems of this plant are purple. Although many varieties of cannabis do get purplish stems, the trait generally extends the entire length of the plant's stem, and not just near the top as in this specimen.

Leaf size will be reduced and overall growth will be stunted. Leaves yellowing or scorched at edges. Excess may cause early senescence.


Calcium plays an important role in maintaining cell integrity and membrane permeability.

Young leaves are affected first and become small and distorted or chlorotic with irregular margins, spotting or necrotic areas. Bud development is inhibited, blossom end rot and internal decay may also occur and root may be under developed or die back. Deficiency will cause root tip die-back, leaf tip curl and marginal necrosis and chlorosis primarily in younger leaves. Symptoms: young leaves develop chlorosis and distortion such as crinkling, dwarfing, developing a strap-like shape, shoots stop growing and thicken.

Difficult to distinguish visually. May precipitate with sulfur in solution and cause clouding or residue in tank. Excess calcium may produce deficiencies in magnesium and potassium.


Iron is an important component of plant enzyme systems for electron transport to carry electrons during photosynthesis and terminal respiration. It is a catalyst for chlorophyll production and is required for nitrate and sulfate reduction and assimilation.

Pronounced interveinal chlorosis similar to that caused by magnesium deficiency but on the younger leaves.
Leaves exhibit chlorosis (yellowing) of the leaves mainly between the veins, starting with the lower and middle leaves.
Caused by factors that interfere with iron absorption of roots: over irrigation, excessive soluble salts, inadequate drainage, pests, high substrate pH, or nematodes. This is easily corrected by adding an iron supplement with the next watering.
Fe is unavailable to plants when the pH of the water or soil is too high. If deficient, lower the pH to about 6.5 (for rockwool, about 5.7), and check that you're not adding too much P, which can lock up Fe. Use iron that's chelated for maximum availability. Read your fertilizer's ingredients - chelated iron might read something like "iron EDTA". To much Fe without adding enough P can cause a P-deficiency.
Note that when adding iron to the solution, it is often necessary to not use fertilizer for that watering. Iron has a tendency of reacting with many of the components of fertilizer solutions, and will cause nutrient lockup to occur. Read the labels of both the iron supplement and the fertilizer you are using before you attempt to combine the two.

Excess accumulation is rare but could cause bronzing or tiny brown spots on leaf surface.


Manganese is involved in the oxidation reduction process in the photosynthetic electron transport system. Biochemical research shows that this element plays a structural role in the chloroplast membrane system, and also activates numerous enzymes.

Interveinal chlorosis of younger leaves, necrotic lesions and leaf shredding are typical symptom of this deficiency. High levels can cause uneven distribution of chlorophyll resulting in blotchy appearance. Restricted growth and failure to mature normally can also result.
Mn gets locked out when the pH is too high, and when there's too much iron. Use chelated Mn.

Toxicity:Chlorosis, or blotchy leaf tissue due to insufficient chlorophyll synthesis. Growth rate will slow and vigor will decline.


Chloride is involved in the evolution of oxygen in the photosynthesis process and is essential for cell division in roots and leaves. Chlorine raises the cell osmotic pressure and affects stomata regulation and increases the hydration of plant tissue. Levels less than 140 ppm are safe for most plants. Chloride sensitive plants may experience tip or marginal leaf burn at concentrations above 20 ppm.

Wilted chlorotic leaves become bronze in color. Roots become stunted and thickened near tips. Plants with chlorine deficiencies will be pale and suffer wilting.

Burning of leaf tip or margins. Bronzing, yellowing and leaf splitting. Reduced leaf size and lower growth rate.


Boron biochemical functions are yet uncertain, but evidence suggests it is involved in the synthesis of one of the bases for nucleic acid (RNA uracil) formation. It may also be involved in some cellular activities such as division, differentiation, maturation and respiration. It is associated with pollen germination.

Plants deficient in boron exhibit brittle abnormal growth at shoot tips and one of the earliest symptoms is failure of root tips to elongate normally. Stem and root apical meristems often die. Root tips often become swollen and discolored. Internal tissues may rot and become host to fungal disease. Leaves show various symptoms which include drying, thickening, distorting, wilting, and chlorotic or necrotic spotting.

Yellowing of leaf tip followed by necrosis of the leaves beginning at tips or margins and progressing inward before leaves die and prematurely fall off. Some plants are especially sensitive to boron accumulation.

Copper is a constituent of many enzymes and proteins. Assists in carbohydrate metabolism, nitrogen fixation and in the process of oxygen reduction.

Symptoms of deficiency are a reduced or stunted growth with a distortion of the younger leaves and growth tip die-back. Young leaves often become dark green and twisted. They may die back or just exhibit necrotic spots. Growth and yield will be deficient as well.

Copper is required in very small amounts and readily becomes toxic in solution culture if not carefully controlled. Excess values will induce iron deficiency. Root growth will be suppressed followed by symptoms of iron chlorosis, stunting, reduced branching, abnormal darkening and thickening of roots.

Molybdenum is a component of two major enzyme systems involved in the nitrate reeducates, this is the process of conversion of nitrate to ammonium.

Often interveinal chlorosis which occurs first on older leaves, then progressing to the entire plant. Developing severely twisted younger leaves which eventually die. Molybdenum deficiencies frequently resemble nitrogen, with older leaves chlorotic with rolled margins and stunted growth.

Excess may cause discoloration of leaves depending on plant species. This condition is rare but could occur from accumulation by continuous application. Used by the plant in very small quantities. Excess mostly usually does not effect the plant, however the consumption of high levels by grazing animals can pose problems so she might not be too good to smoke.

Sodium seems to encourage crop yields and in specific cases it acts as an antidoting agent against various toxic salts. It may act as a partial substitute for potassium deficiencies. Excess may cause plant toxicity or induce deficiencies of other elements. If sodium predominates in the solution calcium and magnesium may be affected.

Silicon usually exists in solution as silicic acid and is absorbed in this form. It accumulates as hydrated amorphous silica most abundantly in walls of epidermal cells, but also in primary and secondary walls of other cells. It is largely available in soils and is found in water as well. Inadequate amounts of silicon can reduce tomato yields as much as 50%, cause new leaves to be deformed and inhibit fruit set. At this time toxicity symptoms are undetermined.

Cobalt is essential to many beneficial bacteria that are involved in nitrogen fixation of legumes. It is a component of vitamin B12 which is essential to most animals and possibly in plants. Reports suggest that it may be involved with enzymes needed to form aromatic compounds. Otherwise, it is not understood fully as to its benefit to plant growth, but it is considered essential to some animal health issues.

looks like P ( phosphorus def. )