What's wrong with socialism?

The Warlord

The Warlord

Well-Known Member
spliffymcstoner said:
America wouldnt know socialism if it kicked it
up its arse in all fairness.

I recall news where the american media were complaining about a redundancy package for GM workers. Baffling



What socialist programs are there?
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Doobs the one saying there are "socialist" programs in america. Thats why I put the term in quotation marks. her words not mine.

I'm simply pointing out that the government run programs she seems to be in love with and want more of suck. They suck bad. We need less of them not more.
 
Iron Lion Zion

Iron Lion Zion

Well-Known Member
spliffymcstoner said:
And capitalism works?

America is the most unequal society on earth, how many millions are there in beverly hills yet at the same time homeless roam around there and the rest of los angeles. No one gives a fuck about them. Some parts of the USA resemble war torn cities in world war two.

We do not practice pure Capitalism.

Capitalism might be good for the minority who benifit but the workers are still trampled on and oppressed.

As for a socialist government looking to control peoples lives and interfere. Read the patriot act, jesus america is the most regulated society ive experienced, there are rules and laws for everything.
This is an example of why we are not a pure Capitalistic society - government is not Laissez Faire ("hands off/free"). On a side note, I am pretty sure out of everything I learned in High School economics, the term Laissez Faire has stuck with me the most.
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:eyesmoke:
 
doobnVA

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
spliffymcstoner said:
What socialist programs are there?
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Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA are our socialized medical care programs. The progressive income tax is a socialist program. Police departments, fire departments, and emergency responders are ALL government workers, which makes these services "socialized". Minimum wages, government grants for schools/businesses, public school system, tax credits for low income individuals, the school lunch program, the school breakfast program, public libraries, heck even electric cooperatives.

This is just what I can come up with off the top of my head. Feel free to add anything I may have missed.
 
doobnVA

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
iivan740 said:
I applaud you, too many people think that in order to be successful they must make lots of money. I believe you are right when you say that success is measured in many ways.

I think that healthcare would be cheaper if the health industry were to implement a capitalist plan. The health industry as it stands isn't about providing services at a reasonable price. There is a lot of bureaucracy in our healthcare system that allows for inflated prices for care.

Heres an example:
Walgreen sells 4x4 FSA approved gauzes for $6.79 per 10 pack (sterile packaging and same brand as most hospitals). If you were to look on your hospital bill that same guaze will be somewhere around $15 for 1. It is hard for me to believe that walgreen is getting better pricing than the hospital.
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the health care industry already does operate under a capitalist plan. Our health care industry is FOR PROFIT, so in order for them to make a profit they jack the prices sky high.

Remove the profit, and in theory, the prices should come down.

Very little of what gets paid into the system actually goes toward the cost of the actual services provided. The rest is basically "overhead" (including those hefty CEO/executive salaries and bonuses) and of course since it's a FOR PROFIT industry - they charge a rate that will allow them a generous profit. and all at OUR expense.
 
ChChoda

ChChoda

Well-Known Member
doobnVA said:
lol@the "free market", where prices should regulate themselves..in theory. So much for that theory, but we sure as hell won't accept any other line of thinking, will we?
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Hell no! If we were so stupid, we'd move to where we were appreciated, by like minded fools. It's only a plane ticket away, right?
 
doobnVA

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
ChChoda said:
Hell no! If we were so stupid, we'd move to where we were appreciated, by like minded fools. It's only a plane ticket away, right?
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You mean somewhere that doesn't have such a wide gap between its rich and its poor, and actively seeks to improve the lives of its less fortunate citizens?

Sounds like a horrible place to live. :wall:
 
ChChoda

ChChoda

Well-Known Member
doobnVA said:
You mean somewhere that doesn't have such a wide gap between its rich and its poor, and actively seeks to improve the lives of its less fortunate citizens?

Sounds like a horrible place to live. :wall:
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Yeah, where everybody is equally miserable. There's plenty of places like that, but, you probably wouldn't have internet access to report back to us. Be sure to write, if you can find a piece of paper and a pen. :roll:
 
DubsFan

DubsFan

Well-Known Member
ChChoda said:
lol@noobVA :mrgreen:
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That is funny.

So you think making something a Non Profit or not for profit changes things. What if instead of the company making a profit those profits were divided up in a pro rated fashion for the purpose of bonuses and payroll.

Have you every ran a non profit? I'm on the board for two. I take no pay. But, at any moment a so called non profit can give themselves raises in order to not make a "profit."

VA, you live in a dream land.

I like what medicare and medicade do but they are the poorly managed. Imagine that. Something ran by the government poorly managed.
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
Medicare .... broke.

Social Security ... broke.

Post Office ... broke.

VA ... sucks.

Government schools ... suck.

Fire Departments ... privatized (voluntary) in rural America.

Police ... OK, I'll give you that one.

Progressive income tax ... Americans live in fear of the IRS.

Minimum Wage ... Locks unskilled workers out of jobs.

Tax credits for low income people .... Theft from the producers to be given to the non-producers.

School lunch programs ... Subsidies to farmers at the expense of everyone else.

Yeppers, Socialism is great. How can we get more of it? :lol:
 
ChChoda

ChChoda

Well-Known Member
ViRedd said:
Medicare .... broke.

Social Security ... broke.

Post Office ... broke.

VA ... sucks.

Government schools ... suck.

Fire Departments ... privatized (voluntary) in rural America.

Police ... OK, I'll give you that one.

Progressive income tax ... Americans live in fear of the IRS.

Minimum Wage ... Locks unskilled workers out of jobs.

Tax credits for low income people .... Theft from the producers to be given to the non-producers.

School lunch programs ... Subsidies to farmers at the expense of everyone else.

Yeppers, Socialism is great. How can we get more of it? :lol:
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Vote Democrat in 2010 and 2012.
 
DubsFan

DubsFan

Well-Known Member
My Obama friends say they don't see it. Well, they do they just refuse to admit the rise up that is going on. The Republicans are on a major move to pick up a lot of seats in 2010...a lot. I have a few friends that are legit swing voters. They all voted for Obama. You know, transparency (where?), GITMO (not closing and still holding military tribunals). Basically all they see is that Obama's terror policy is Bush 101. Thank God.

Really, after a few administrations go by. It will be the Bush terror policy's that will be referenced for decision making. Love it or hate it it's here to stay.

What has Obama changed? What is within his grasp. Not much. He's too busy keeping Pelosi, Reed and Biden out of trouble.
 
Iron Lion Zion

Iron Lion Zion

Well-Known Member
ViRedd said:
Medicare .... broke.

Social Security ... broke.

Post Office ... broke.

VA ... sucks.

Government schools ... suck.

Fire Departments ... privatized (voluntary) in rural America.

Police ... OK, I'll give you that one.

Progressive income tax ... Americans live in fear of the IRS.

Minimum Wage ... Locks unskilled workers out of jobs.

Tax credits for low income people .... Theft from the producers to be given to the non-producers.

School lunch programs ... Subsidies to farmers at the expense of everyone else.

Yeppers, Socialism is great. How can we get more of it? :lol:
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I'm not saying you aren't correct, but just throwing out some reasons that also contributed to these systems failing.

Medicare and SS => Baby Boomers getting up there have helped
Postal Service => Email + computers have helped its decline.
IRS => Don't limit it to just Americans, everyone hates tax collectors.
Lunch Programs => How else can you encourage farmers to produce stuff if they would still lose money after distributing it?
Minimum Wage => Kind of a weak argument - so instead of saying to 50 workers "You get 6.50 an hour and if you suck you are getting replaced," you say "You 100 workers get $3 a piece and you won't have to worry about getting replaced. Which one is worse? I honestly don't think unemployment is terrible, for a nation, not at a personal level - it encourages people to better their skills or further their education, which in turn can lead to a stronger country/economy.
Public Schools => Yah, they do suck... but I went to parochial schools so I will be the first to throw this out there as well.

Not saying you are wrong, but all of those things didn't fail simply because of their socialist set-up.
 
S

sunshine17542

Well-Known Member
doobnVA said:
I've worked in the restaurant industry most of my life. It's not horrible money (working full time at the right place I can pull in $30k a year), but it's very unsatisfying work, and a bit degrading too.
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No work is degrading, this is the pride thing I was talking about. Work=profit
 
iivan740

iivan740

Well-Known Member
doobnVA said:
the health care industry already does operate under a capitalist plan. Our health care industry is FOR PROFIT, so in order for them to make a profit they jack the prices sky high.

Remove the profit, and in theory, the prices should come down.

Very little of what gets paid into the system actually goes toward the cost of the actual services provided. The rest is basically "overhead" (including those hefty CEO/executive salaries and bonuses) and of course since it's a FOR PROFIT industry - they charge a rate that will allow them a generous profit. and all at OUR expense.
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You are wrong, most hospitals operate under a socialized medicine plan. If they decide not to they do not get federal funding. If you can go to your hospital and fill out a form that says that you can't afford care and still get taken care of, then your hospital fits this bill.
Try going to target or a GMC dealer and asking for a form that will allow you to declare that you can't afford a product, and then pick out what you need and be on your way.
 
iivan740

iivan740

Well-Known Member
Maby these cows can help
SOCIALIST
You have two cows.
The government takes one and gives it to your neighbor.
You form a cooperative to tell him how to manage his cow.

CAPITALISM, AMERICAN STYLE
You have two cows.
You sell one, buy a bull, and build a herd of cows.

REPUBLICAN
You have two cows.
Your neighbor has none.
So?

DEMOCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE
You have two cows.
The government taxes you to the point you have to sell both to support a man in a foreign country who has only one cow, which was a gift from your government.

BUREAUCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE
You have two cows.
The government takes them both, shoots one, milks the other, pays you for the milk, and then pours the milk down the drain.

AMERICAN CORPORATION
You have two cows.
You sell one, lease it back to yourself and do an IPO on the 2nd one.
You force the two cows to produce the milk of four cows.
You are surprised when one cow drops dead.
You spin an announcement to the analysts stating you have downsized and are reducing expenses.
Your stock goes up.
 
DubsFan

DubsFan

Well-Known Member
Come to SoCal, SD specifically. If I pay 5 mexicans equally as 5 crackers like myself. The Mexi's get it done. There skilled trade is lacking. I'm talking about the lower level guys. I know plenty of mexicans that do great welding and other trades. But at the lower level the mexicans are better here in SoCal. They just want to put food on the table.

Work does equal profit. These Mexicans are happy to be here. Now if I can only get them to not park on their lawn. There daughters like Gringo's. Ask me how I know :)
 
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