When Does Life Begin ...

shimmer

shimmer

Well-Known Member
HotNSexyMILF said:
I've stated before that I don't think abortion should be outlawed, it isn't the Federal gov. business (here in the U.S) it's a state's issue. I don't think women should be thrown in jail or killed for abortions, I don't even think they should be illegal- I just think abortion is a symptom to problems with society, I don't want to FORCE women keep their children, I want society to move back to the point where the women WANT to keep their children.
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I am in complete agreement with you, but i fear it's too long a way back. It's narrow minded men who would impose legislation that controls womens' right to choose that i find sinister. I'm not saying that if i got a woman pregnant i wouldn't express my opinion, but i would respect hers.
 
ZenMaster

ZenMaster

Well-Known Member
shimmer said:
I find it a little ironic that people who object to abortion on religious grounds are so concerned about it. Surely it's a win win situation for you bible bashers. The 'evil' mother is banished to hell for the sin, thereby sparing you any ill-feeling in paradise and allowing you to enjoy the music of the unborn on earth lute society without risk of her presence. Surely even the most wrathful version of a christian God wouldn't have a beef with a 'soul' who never went near a vagina before marriage, and in fact was incapable of committing a sin at all.
Mind you, maybe you would bump into her. Perhaps your lord would grant her a ticket into heaven for having the foresight to spare the little potential person the suffering of being brought into a cruel world; a world whose cruelty would only be exacerbated by the fact that their very own Mother felt that they would not be able to offer them a decent existence on said world, and instead bought the innocent 'soul' a one way non-stop ticket to hang eternally with the divine?
I suggest for all you christian men who want to have business in womens' bodies, that you use the real, tangible, fit for purpose tools(tongue, cock,fingers etc), God gave you, and to keep your inapropriate, meddling, inherited and unexamined ideas where they belong(church).
See you guys at the concert.
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It is better to be born than unborn, the petty insolent excuse for having an abortion to save the child from the horrors and unpleasantries of the world is undeniably hollow. I find it a little ironic with this righteous noble decision is actually a guise for the mother's agenda only. Advocates against abortion are more than mere religious driven rhetoric however you cannot fathom all reasoning for you are unable to comprehend morality apart from religion-its all the same pot of crock to you since you are so one dimensional. Being so mono-driven will incur your slur of ignorant hate speech toward God and of life protecting servants, its truly a shame that you cannot comprehend the argument of pro-lifers. Judging by your unyielding ignorance, reasoning with you is futile to most sane people so thus you will mainly go unchallenged-save for me. It is hypocritical to judge everyone who values the life of unborn children with religious vigilantes; rest assured there is a percentage that are however you are labeling everyone that. They are the extreme factor on one side and the stereotype on the other side of the fence are the godless heathens. You must recognize that there are more than one facet to everything and until you do you will remain narrow-minded and typical.
 
Big P

Big P

Well-Known Member
i dont understand why people cant do the logical thing and just comprimise.


say as long as its in the fiirst or maybe second month then abortion is legal because the child is not "really" developed, but illigal any later than that

then only allow it later, only if the mothers life is at risk, bam end of story



that makes a lot of sense
 
B

Bongulator

Well-Known Member
Mmm, I don't know that you can call something the size of a sesame seed (the size a fetus is through the bulk of the first trimester) a child. I am adamantly opposed to the killing of *children*. When I think of children, I think of legs and arms and a brain and the ability to think. A first trimester fetus is no more a child than Terry Schiavo was a person. She was a body with a beating heart, but without brain there is no personality, no person-ness. No brain, no person. No person, no rights.

Think about the future. At some point we will have full regeneration capabilities. Accidentally chop off a finger, you'll be able to grow a new one. But you'll also be able to grow that cut-off fingertip into a new person too. Would doing so then become a legal imperative? I mean, it's just a fingertip, has no brain. Yes, it's also a *potential* new human being, but so will be any body part. Every time there's an accidental amputation, we'll have to grow both parts into human beings?
 
natrone23

natrone23

Well-Known Member
I think it is totally reasonable to compromise like panda said, few months after conception their could be some kind of compromise on a cut off date, if the mother dosn't make a decision by than too late too bad, But I dont know if there can be compromise since one side believes stem cells are humans and wants to save them too..........Zen what about a compromise?
 
ZenMaster

ZenMaster

Well-Known Member
natrone23 said:
I think it is totally reasonable to compromise like panda said, few months after conception their could be some kind of compromise on a cut off date, if the mother dosn't make a decision by than too late too bad, But I dont know if there can be compromise since one side believes stem cells are humans and wants to save them too..........Zen what about a compromise?
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Hmm, it would be a start ;)

I'm not against cases of incest or rape however this is the one of the main arguments encountered by pro-choicers (anti-lifers), but the case number of this is very very low and shouldn't be the rallying cry for the entire movement.

What really gets me about it is that some people use it as a form of control. I know this one girl who has had 13 abortions. What I am really adamant for is responsibility. I think more people in this country/world should take responsibility for their actions. They made a boo-boo and should deal with the consequences, and if they are really really against raising a kid, at least put it in adoption.

Also, I do agree with it should be more a states issue than a federal issue. In fact, more states rights and less federal all the way.
 
Big P

Big P

Well-Known Member
ya it makes sense as its not really developed



this is an 8 week fetus.





dont ask me were I got it i just saw the grossest thing when i fond that pic above. its a pic of an 11 week fetus that was aborted in a doctors hand. its tiny

but im tellin you this pic is one of the sickest things I have ever seen im serious close to puking no doubt,

so dont click if you dont want to see it

**GRAPHIC LINK YOU ARE WARNED**

http://www.davidmacd.com/images/fetus08.jpg

**seriously dont click its too disturbing***
 
B

Bongulator

Well-Known Member
The 'anti-lifers' are the ones who (in Owellian fashion) call themselves 'pro-life'. History bears this out. When abortion is illegal, the number of abortions does not decline, but the number of dead girls increases. So the 'pro-lifers' are the ones who are trying to assert control over the bodies of young women in order to cause the deaths of more young women. You can argue the theological aspects all you like, but that's reality, and reality is what we all have to deal with every day we wake up.
 
misshestermoffitt

misshestermoffitt

New Member
Has anyone but me ever noticed that the anti-abortion people are also the ones who don't want sex education in the schools? They only want abstinence taught and want abortion outlawed.

Let me inform you that ignoring sex won't make it go away.

Anyone agree that education leads to prevention?
 
H

HotNSexyMILF

Well-Known Member
Oh stop spreading untrue filth. Nearly 100% of the pro-lifers in here don't even think it should be illegal or a crime- we just DON'T AGREE WITH IT.
 
ZenMaster

ZenMaster

Well-Known Member
Bongulator said:
The 'anti-lifers' are the ones who (in Owellian fashion) call themselves 'pro-life'. History bears this out. When abortion is illegal, the number of abortions does not decline, but the number of dead girls increases. So the 'pro-lifers' are the ones who are trying to assert control over the bodies of young women in order to cause the deaths of more young women. You can argue the theological aspects all you like, but that's reality, and reality is what we all have to deal with every day we wake up.
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How will there be more girl deaths?

Dying from child birth with current technology is very low.

Maternal death - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The number today in the United States is 11 in 100,000, a decline by orders of magnitude.

Plus with the C-Section, chances are even lower.



 
Dankdude

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
HotNSexyMILF said:
Oh stop spreading untrue filth. Nearly 100% of the pro-lifers in here don't even think it should be illegal or a crime- we just DON'T AGREE WITH IT.
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Thank you HotNSexyMILF, I do not think is should be a crime or illegal, at least on a federal level. That was decided back in the early 1970's and thus made the law of the land (federally) I do however thing that it still should be left up to the states to decide the legality on the State level.
And even then, there should be exceptions in cases of rape and incest.
 
tipsgnob

tipsgnob

New Member
Dankdude said:
Thank you HotNSexyMILF, I do not think is should be a crime or illegal, at least on a federal level. That was decided back in the early 1970's and thus made the law of the land (federally) I do however thing that it still should be left up to the states to decide the legality on the State level.
And even then, there should be exceptions in cases of rape and incest.
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then the doctors in states where it's legal can charge whatever they want for an abortion...only the wealthy can afford them...and the poor folks hit the dark alleys and die from staph infection and septis(sp).....
 
Dankdude

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
You may be correct in your assumption, but let's get real, how much chance do you ever see it passing in any state?
Not much, they tried in South Dakota in the last election and the referendum failed miserably.
 
misshestermoffitt

misshestermoffitt

New Member
The state or federal government should not try to regulate peoples body parts.

The already try to regulate everyone's lungs by making pot illegal. That's is how we all came together in the first place. We reject the idea of the state trying to regulate our lungs. These are my lungs and if I want to fill them with marijuana smoke then that is my and only my business.

On a side note, I begged an OB-GYN to take out my uterus because of extremely horrible periods. They refused to remove it. Now lets say my husband and I have sex, the condom breaks and I get pregnant. Should the ob-gyn pay me child support? That is the person that refused to take it out. I'm still using birth control methods, but would it still be my fault I was pregnant?
 
Stoney McFried

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
I don't know...I have the same problem.I don't go to the ob anymore.I'm done suffering because of my vagina.I absolutely hate pap smears.I get so mad getting them, I don't know why, I just feel violated, even though that's the doc's job.Try taking evening primrose oil caps.After a month, it should help.But count on taking them from now on to have a lasting effect.
misshestermoffitt said:
The state or federal government should not try to regulate peoples body parts.

The already try to regulate everyone's lungs by making pot illegal. That's is how we all came together in the first place. We reject the idea of the state trying to regulate our lungs. These are my lungs and if I want to fill them with marijuana smoke then that is my and only my business.

On a side note, I begged an OB-GYN to take out my uterus because of extremely horrible periods. They refused to remove it. Now lets say my husband and I have sex, the condom breaks and I get pregnant. Should the ob-gyn pay me child support? That is the person that refused to take it out. I'm still using birth control methods, but would it still be my fault I was pregnant?
Click to expand...
 
shimmer

shimmer

Well-Known Member
ZenMaster said:
It is better to be born than unborn, the petty insolent excuse for having an abortion to save the child from the horrors and unpleasantries of the world is undeniably hollow. I find it a little ironic with this righteous noble decision is actually a guise for the mother's agenda only. Advocates against abortion are more than mere religious driven rhetoric however you cannot fathom all reasoning for you are unable to comprehend morality apart from religion-its all the same pot of crock to you since you are so one dimensional. Being so mono-driven will incur your slur of ignorant hate speech toward God and of life protecting servants, its truly a shame that you cannot comprehend the argument of pro-lifers. Judging by your unyielding ignorance, reasoning with you is futile to most sane people so thus you will mainly go unchallenged-save for me. It is hypocritical to judge everyone who values the life of unborn children with religious vigilantes; rest assured there is a percentage that are however you are labeling everyone that. They are the extreme factor on one side and the stereotype on the other side of the fence are the godless heathens. You must recognize that there are more than one facet to everything and until you do you will remain narrow-minded and typical.
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Wow! That's some angry shit. In my opinion abortion is always tragic, and something that on a personal level i do not subscribe to. But no man can understand the dynamics of a woman's feelings with regard to such a dreadful choice. Thus, they should butt the fuck out. I can't imagine any sane woman wanting to have an abortion, i have comforted friends who have been through it and it's not pretty. You do not have the low down on existence as far as i can see, and i don't quite know why you have to be quite so vitriolic given that according to your beliefs i will be roasting in hell for eternity pretty shortly. One advantage i do have by not being locked into a prefabricated belief system is the chance to learn. When you know something for sure, what's left to learn? I think if most christians really believed what they espoused then maybe this poor tired place would be in be in much better shape after 2000 years of it.
 
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