When to start watering to run off coco coir help

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ec121

Well-Known Member
EH40veg said:
No worries mate, thanks for taking the time to explain. I wouldn’t say it was packed to tightly, and it’s 70/30 coco / perlite but yeh I should probably start the seedlings in solo cups next time like you said.

I’ll see how they’re doing in a few hours once the lights go on and see if they need a top over, so would the top over just be enough to get similar 10% runoff yeah?
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They don't ever need to be topped off - you can treat coco like unamended soil and do drybacks, but that's not the optimal way of growing in coco and will lead to soil-like results and it would be better to just use soil if one preferred drybacks.

The "magic" of coco is in its ability to retain air when it's completely saturated due to the characteristics and shape of the coconut fibers, which gives the roots access to both oxygen and water when saturated.

As you know, with soil, once the media is saturated the plant is starved of oxygen - then when the media starts to dry out, it's starved of water and it's a balancing act. No such balancing is required in coco. You just have to make sure your EC and pH is appropriate and you'll never have problems.

What did you decide to do? How's it looking today?
 
EH40veg

EH40veg

Active Member
ec121 said:
They don't ever need to be topped off - you can treat coco like unamended soil and do drybacks, but that's not the optimal way of growing in coco and will lead to soil-like results and it would be better to just use soil if one preferred drybacks.

The "magic" of coco is in its ability to retain air when it's completely saturated due to the characteristics and shape of the coconut fibers, which gives the roots access to both oxygen and water when saturated.

As you know, with soil, once the media is saturated the plant is starved of oxygen - then when the media starts to dry out, it's starved of water and it's a balancing act. No such balancing is required in coco. You just have to make sure your EC and pH is appropriate and you'll never have problems.

What did you decide to do? How's it looking today?
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Cheers mate I didn’t end up topping them off, gave them another day coco was still nice and wet but the leafs are looking pale green / yellow so I’ve upped the feed again to .8 EC, fed them to runoff ended up around 175ml per plant but got about 20% runoff this time instead off 10% compared to the first time when the coco was drier. Will hopefully see an improvement in the next day or 2, other than the yellowing they’re looking good starting to pray towards the light more and seem to be growing a little faster as well.
 
EH40veg

EH40veg

Active Member
ec121 said:
They don't ever need to be topped off - you can treat coco like unamended soil and do drybacks, but that's not the optimal way of growing in coco and will lead to soil-like results and it would be better to just use soil if one preferred drybacks.

The "magic" of coco is in its ability to retain air when it's completely saturated due to the characteristics and shape of the coconut fibers, which gives the roots access to both oxygen and water when saturated.

As you know, with soil, once the media is saturated the plant is starved of oxygen - then when the media starts to dry out, it's starved of water and it's a balancing act. No such balancing is required in coco. You just have to make sure your EC and pH is appropriate and you'll never have problems.

What did you decide to do? How's it looking today?
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They are starting to look better now mate and growing faster to now I’ve been watering them to runoff with some feed, but one of them has some brown rust spots on the leafs, it is a little younger than the rest but I sort of thought it looked like a calcium deficiency from photos I seen. Attached a photo underneath

I’ve also seen people talking about washing the coco/perlite with calmag, do you guys do that as I’ve just got it straight out the bag and put it in the pots. Another reason I was thinking I could possibly be a calcium deficiency or maybe they’re just not liking the stronger feed since they are a little younger and getting nutrient burn, fed them at .8ec
 

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ec121

Well-Known Member
EH40veg said:
They are starting to look better now mate and growing faster to now I’ve been watering them to runoff with some feed, but one of them has some brown rust spots on the leafs, it is a little younger than the rest but I sort of thought it looked like a calcium deficiency from photos I seen. Attached a photo underneath

I’ve also seen people talking about washing the coco/perlite with calmag, do you guys do that as I’ve just got it straight out the bag and put it in the pots. Another reason I was thinking I could possibly be a calcium deficiency or maybe they’re just not liking the stronger feed since they are a little younger and getting nutrient burn, fed them at .8ec
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At this point, you should be around 1.0-1.1 EC and feeding at least once per day. You can raise the pH to about 6.2-6.3, as calcium is more available to the plant in that range and then start lowering it down to about 5.8 or so in a week and ride out the rest of veg there. Also, start measuring your runoff EC.

Are you using reverse osmosis water? Are you giving calmag in addition to Canna A&B?

As for buffering, it depends on the coco you're using. Some coco, like Canna Coco is washed and buffered (even their bricks), so it should be good to go out of the bag. If you're using cheap brick coco, then it should be rinsed of all the salt and the buffered in a solution of calmag before using.
 
EH40veg

EH40veg

Active Member
ec121 said:
At this point, you should be around 1.0-1.1 EC and feeding at least once per day. You can raise the pH to about 6.2-6.3, as calcium is more available to the plant in that range and then start lowering it down to about 5.8 or so in a week and ride out the rest of veg there. Also, start measuring your runoff EC.

Are you using reverse osmosis water? Are you giving calmag in addition to Canna A&B?

As for buffering, it depends on the coco you're using. Some coco, like Canna Coco is washed and buffered (even their bricks), so it should be good to go out of the bag. If you're using cheap brick coco, then it should be rinsed of all the salt and the buffered in a solution of calmag before using.
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Ok mate thanks I’ll see how they do and up the feed and will raise the ph slightly then had it at 6.0, will check the run off tomorrow when I feed again.

and no mate I’m not using tap water but got drops to add to get rid of the bad stuff in the water, put a pic of them at the bottom. And no I’ve not been giving any calmag with the A&B should I give it some?

And yeah mate using canna coco so should be all good then just seen a few people talking about it and wasn’t sure if it was needed or not.

Thanks again
 

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EH40veg

EH40veg

Active Member
ec121 said:
At this point, you should be around 1.0-1.1 EC and feeding at least once per day. You can raise the pH to about 6.2-6.3, as calcium is more available to the plant in that range and then start lowering it down to about 5.8 or so in a week and ride out the rest of veg there. Also, start measuring your runoff EC.

Are you using reverse osmosis water? Are you giving calmag in addition to Canna A&B?

As for buffering, it depends on the coco you're using. Some coco, like Canna Coco is washed and buffered (even their bricks), so it should be good to go out of the bag. If you're using cheap brick coco, then it should be rinsed of all the salt and the buffered in a solution of calmag before using.
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This is another up to date photo I just took, looking a lot better from Monday when I first uploaded though.
 

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ec121

Well-Known Member
EH40veg said:
and no mate I’m not using tap water but got drops to add to get rid of the bad stuff in the water, put a pic of them at the bottom. And no I’ve not been giving any calmag with the A&B should I give it some?
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Do you mean you are using tap water? If your tap water contains calcium and magnesium, which most does, then you likely do not have to add in any additional calmag. What is the EC of the water before anything is put in it?
 
EH40veg

EH40veg

Active Member
ec121 said:
Do you mean you are using tap water? If your tap water contains calcium and magnesium, which most does, then you likely do not have to add in any additional calmag. What is the EC of the water before anything is put in it?
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Yeah sorry mate meant not using RO, using tap water, but my bluelab EC pen says it’s 0 just calibrated it as well. I’m in the UK if that makes a difference
 
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ec121

Well-Known Member
EH40veg said:
Yeah sorry mate meant not using RO, using tap water, but my bluelab EC pen says it’s 0 just calibrated it as well. I’m in the UK if that makes a difference
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Wow, your tap comes out at 0? That's pretty amazing. I haven't used Canna nutes, but you can try to run it without calmag and see how things develop.
 
EH40veg

EH40veg

Active Member
ec121 said:
Wow, your tap comes out at 0? That's pretty amazing. I haven't used Canna nutes, but you can try to run it without calmag and see how things develop.
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I think so mate that’s what my Ec pen says, it’s a blue lab one as well so I think it’s accurate just calibrated it too.

With checking the Ec of runoff does the runoff need to be clean or how does that work since there is bits of coco in the runoff, as I seen you saying on another post you can’t take the Ec from a dirty drip tray?

I fed my plants again today tho with an Ec of 1.0 all around 150-175ml each with about 10-15% runoff, let it drip into the saucers and then poured that into a measuring jug and took the Ec, my Ec out was .9 is that good?
 
medidedicated

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
EH40veg said:
I think so mate that’s what my Ec pen says, it’s a blue lab one as well so I think it’s accurate just calibrated it too.

With checking the Ec of runoff does the runoff need to be clean or how does that work since there is bits of coco in the runoff, as I seen you saying on another post you can’t take the Ec from a dirty drip tray?

I fed my plants again today tho with an Ec of 1.0 all around 150-175ml each with about 10-15% runoff, let it drip into the saucers and then poured that into a measuring jug and took the Ec, my Ec out was .9 is that good?
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Haha, are you referring to my thread? Rather or not thats good thats youre reading and trying to learn. I just thought its funny if it was my thread people mention mine sometimes.
 
medidedicated

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
But yes you want to make sure the tray or what ever is holding the runoff to be clean. They told me that on my thread which I do practice now. Bits of coco not so much Im sure they mean residual salts that arent part of the situation.
 
EH40veg

EH40veg

Active Member
medidedicated said:
Haha, are you referring to my thread? Rather or not thats good thats youre reading and trying to learn. I just thought its funny if it was my thread people mention mine sometimes.
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Haha yeah mate
medidedicated said:
But yes you want to make sure the tray or what ever is holding the runoff to be clean. They told me that on my thread which I do practice now. Bits of coco not so much Im sure they mean residual salts that arent part of the situation.
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But thank you mate will make sure to clean the trays inbetween feedings from now on.
 
E

ec121

Well-Known Member
EH40veg said:
I fed my plants again today tho with an Ec of 1.0 all around 150-175ml each with about 10-15% runoff, let it drip into the saucers and then poured that into a measuring jug and took the Ec, my Ec out was .9 is that good?
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You can just lift one plant up and let it drip into a clean container and measure that. Yeah, you're fine. The EC can be around .3 higher than the inflow and you'll be fine.
 
medidedicated

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
EH40veg said:
Haha yeah mate

But thank you mate will make sure to clean the trays inbetween feedings from now on.
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Well I think yall were talking about when youre measuring the runoff, not every time you feed the plant. If thats what you mean. You just make sure the runoff doesnt mix with residual nutes. if youre testing it.

Like they just said you could even test it some other way on a clean saucer or something similar.
 
EH40veg

EH40veg

Active Member
ec121 said:
You can just lift one plant up and let it drip into a clean container and measure that. Yeah, you're fine. The EC can be around .3 higher than the inflow and you'll be fine.
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Ok cheers mate, what about if it’s under or over?
 
E

ec121

Well-Known Member
EH40veg said:
Ok cheers mate, what about if it’s under or over?
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It will typically be over. No need to do anything if it's up to 0.3 EC higher. Once you've gotten your nutes dialed after a grow or two and your numbers are reliably consistent (keep a log), then you can just periodically check runoff EC or do it when something seems odd.
 
EH40veg

EH40veg

Active Member
ec121 said:
It will typically be over. No need to do anything if it's up to 0.3 EC higher. Once you've gotten your nutes dialed after a grow or two and your numbers are reliably consistent (keep a log), then you can just periodically check runoff EC or do it when something seems odd.
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Thank you mate, they seem to be happier now. Started to add .5ml of calmag per L of water and think they’re liking it.

Should I start to increase the feed more at 1.0 Ec right now, what’s the max I should be pushing a few more weeks into veg once they are bigger?
 
E

ec121

Well-Known Member
EH40veg said:
Thank you mate, they seem to be happier now. Started to add .5ml of calmag per L of water and think they’re liking it.

Should I start to increase the feed more at 1.0 Ec right now, what’s the max I should be pushing a few more weeks into veg once they are bigger?
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Plants use the roots to take up water and nutrients separately via different mechanisms. So they don't suck up nutrient solution like as if using a straw.

This means that if your fertigating practices are proper (e.g., slow and even, without solution going down valleys in the coco that would throw off the runoff EC numbers), then you can glean feeding information from the runoff EC. For example, if the runoff EC is consistently 0.5 EC lower than the inflow EC, the plant is taking up more nutrients than it is water and you can bump up the EC of the feed a little.

I usually top out around 1.2 EC the 3rd week of veg and run it out at 1.2 for the rest of veg. I drop the EC slightly right after flipping the lights and transitioning to flower nutes, then put it back to 1.2 EC and maybe 1.3 in late flower.

They must be much bigger now, yeah?
 
EH40veg

EH40veg

Active Member
ec121 said:
Plants use the roots to take up water and nutrients separately via different mechanisms. So they don't suck up nutrient solution like as if using a straw.

This means that if your fertigating practices are proper (e.g., slow and even, without solution going down valleys in the coco that would throw off the runoff EC numbers), then you can glean feeding information from the runoff EC. For example, if the runoff EC is consistently 0.5 EC lower than the inflow EC, the plant is taking up more nutrients than it is water and you can bump up the EC of the feed a little.

I usually top out around 1.2 EC the 3rd week of veg and run it out at 1.2 for the rest of veg. I drop the EC slightly right after flipping the lights and transitioning to flower nutes, then put it back to 1.2 EC and maybe 1.3 in late flower.

They must be much bigger now, yeah?
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Thanks for explaining that mate, I’ll check the Ec this time in a clean tray, I’ve got them at about 1.1 right now so will see how they do and maybe slightly increase over the next few days. No worries mate thanks so do you not give any higher than 1.3 EC in flower as well I’ve seen people talking about going as high as 2 EC.

But yeah mate looking bigger and starting to see the roots come out the bottom on a couple of them probs won’t be a lot longer until I need to transplant them into medium sized pots. I’ll post a pic up of how they’re looking in the next 10/15 mins when I feed them.
 
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