Where's The Proof LibOffice of Mendocino Country Sheriff doubled their mrulism Works?

Illegal Smile

Well-Known Member
If deficit spending is good, then why not do even more of it? Why stop here? Let's give all the poor people $100k each so they won't be poor anymore. Let's give everybody free internet and cell phones. Let's build a high speed rail system from sea to sea. Free universal healthcare. Triple the benefits for unemployment and welfare. And social security too?

Is that going too far? Where exactly do you draw the line?
 
We have had a markedly librul government in america for 50 years now. The government has grown beyond imagination. Where are the results?

Fact: The percent of the world's population living in poverty (accoring to UN) has declined by a third since 1980. That is a remarkable accomplishmnet!

Fact: In the same period, how much has the same metric declined in the US? Zero

What are we getting for all the government we are killing our economy to provide? How are we better off now than we were a quarter century ago?
if you cant spell the word then you have no say
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
I won't deny that.... We spend over 20 times what China does on self defense and we are tiny in comparison.... Yet when China ups it military budget, we demand to know why.... we really are an arrogant bunch...

We need to drop all the BS weapons programs that cost us over 100 billion a year in research and development.

True, but it is a pittance compared to how much we spend killing others.
 
we need to build a wall around the country and get back to basics. but the wall around our little camp is growing nicely every year :-) you can come to our place when the shit hits the fan, we are ready, but you must have a skill ;-) already have too many growers and smokers sorry ;-)
 

mame

Well-Known Member
Who is David Sirota?
I knew that was coming. Regardless of which side he is on the data is still valid.
The population of the USA in 1940 was 132 million. the population of 1988 was 246 million. Reagan saved more actual Jobs than anyone ever. in 1982 unemployment was at 10.4%
Using a little math and that table's numbers, the total workforce (including the unemployed, looking for work) in 1932 was just over 54 million. The total workforce in 1982 was ~108 million. Under FDR, 4 million jobs were created prior to the recession of early1938, which saw an unemplyment rate of 19% - so many of those jobs were lost (over 2.5 million) - but then the unemployment numbers dropped again and all those jobs came back by 1940 when the unemployment rate stood at 14.6%.

Overall then, FDR oversaw the creation of 6.5 million jobs and a loss of around 2.5 million for a net total of ~4 million gain in jobs.

Now, Reagan's workforce, at ~108 million, began at 7.6%, rose to 10.4% and then ended at 5.5%. Honestly, not bad at all. Lets see how they compare.. 7.6% unemployment is ~8.2 million, a 10.4% unemployment rate is just over 11.2 million - a loss of about 3 million jobs - and then unemployment steadily drops, ending at a nice 5.5% by the time Reagan left office.. leaving only 5.9 million people unemployed.

That means Reagan's administration oversaw a decrease in 3 million jobs and an increase in 5.3 million jobs for a net gain of 2.3 million jobs.

Note: it seems the table claims that the net gain was 1.5 million, some kind of funny math by him possibly.. I checked my shit a few times haha: 8.2 million - 5.9 million = 2.3 million jobs or including the recession 8.2 million + 3 million - 5.9 million= 5.3 and then 5.3-3=2.3


Now, I know you're ready to say that the recession, happening almost right after Reagan took office - is not his fault. I guess you could say that, because it was actually Volcker (fed chairman, appointed by Carter, then reappointed by Reagan) who induced the Recession with tight monetary policy to battle extremely high inflation. It was also Volcker who was responsible for the gradual loosening of monetary policy once inflation was pushed down. As a result of lower core inflation, profit margins went up. Because the fed had accomplished it's goal and loosened monetary policy(lower interest rates) - investment went up.

The Reagan Tax cuts might have helped, but I'm not sold. If you look at the Bush tax cuts - they largely failed to spur the kind of economic growth that was promised from them.

So your assertion in those strict terms is incorrect. I did however find scattered claims that after Reagan left office his policies have since created as many as 16 million jobs but we aren't counting how many jobs were created today... If we were it would get quite complicated counting the jobs created by New Deal policies today as well (which considering the ever expansion of the health industry)...

On a related note, Reagan may have even indirectly set the stage for the 08 recession ( I know, I'm getting out there now)... He is the guy who appointed Alan Greenspan after all, who has been dubbed by many as the man who... "may be more responsible than any other single human being for the disastrous developments in our nation's economy".
 

medicineman

New Member
What the fuck is librulism? Is that when "liberals" drul/drool? In the first place, Liberal is no worse word than conservative. It is only the conservatives/righties that have palced the "horrible" connotation on the word. Actually we "libruls' are better known as progressives, and I challenge you to downgrade that word, you know, progressive as in the word, "progress", as opposed to conservative which basically means to back to the way it was 250 years ago, Really? Do you "righties really want to back to the days of the signing of the constitution? No cars, no computers, no refridgerators/refridgeration, no electricity, no indoor plumbing, you guys really make me laugh. There's not one of you that would give up any of those items to be "free". Me, I'm all about progress, looking foward to the time when men respect eachother, and helping your fellow human being is not considered highway robbery. When war is a long lost art, and peace really means peace. I realize it won't happen in my life time, and from the appearance of things, we, the human race, may well destroy ourselves before it ever comes to fruition, but I'm hopeful that someday it will happen, real peace.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
So only progressives invent things that modernize our lives? Really? I am 100% positive that great inventors come from any and all walks of life, not just the liberal sect. You really outdid yourself this time pops.
 

mihjaro

Active Member
We have had a markedly librul government in america for 50 years now. The government has grown beyond imagination. Where are the results?

Fact: The percent of the world's population living in poverty (accoring to UN) has declined by a third since 1980. That is a remarkable accomplishmnet!

Fact: In the same period, how much has the same metric declined in the US? Zero

What are we getting for all the government we are killing our economy to provide? How are we better off now than we were a quarter century ago?
I'm pretty sure that I disagree with your original premise. Can you show that we have had a markedly librul government for 50 years? I'm positive that Nixon and Reagan would disagree and almost sure Eisenhower and Bush II would as well. Until you prove your premise, any implications which follow are irrelevant.

Also, I'm not sure about this but UN and US poverty metrics are not exactly comparable.

Another problem with your argument is the assumption that we are killing our economy to provide government. Last I checked our GDP per capita was 9th out of 182 and our nominal GDP was only bested by the EU. Which kind of undermines your "growing government" implies "killing the economy" argument, since the EU is always thrown out there as the prototype of a Western government gone wild.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
i'm pretty sure that i disagree with your original premise. Can you show that we have had a markedly librul government for 50 years? I'm positive that nixon and reagan would disagree and almost sure eisenhower and bush ii would as well. Until you prove your premise, any implications which follow are irrelevant.

Also, i'm not sure about this but un and us poverty metrics are not exactly comparable.

Another problem with your argument is the assumption that we are killing our economy to provide government. Last i checked our gdp per capita was 9th out of 182 and our nominal gdp was only bested by the eu. Which kind of undermines your "growing government" implies "killing the economy" argument, since the eu is always thrown out there as the prototype of a western government gone wild.
stop using facts
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
How bout the first 200 years of the USA, that worked. People were magnitudes more free than now.
You can't compare a pre-industrialized economy to an industrialized one. It's just not the same thing.

Back then being poor often meant you could just take a covered wagon out west and claim some land for yourself. That's not possible anymore.
 

mame

Well-Known Member
How bout the first 200 years of the USA, that worked. People were magnitudes more free than now.
Wow.

The first 200 years of the USA? Disease, low overall quality of living (especially in densely populated areas), not to mention what was the average lifespan 200 years ago? Answer:

http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/haines.demography (includes fertility, mortality, etc... )

You would really rather move to the way it was? :-?

and this,
You can't compare a pre-industrialized economy to an industrialized one. It's just not the same thing.

Back then being poor often meant you could just take a covered wagon out west and claim some land for yourself. That's not possible anymore.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Wow.

The first 200 years of the USA? Disease, low overall quality of living (especially in densely populated areas), not to mention what was the average lifespan 200 years ago? Answer:

http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/haines.demography (includes fertility, mortality, etc... )

You would really rather move to the way it was? :-?
Idealizing the past in a way that never actually happened it the foundation of the republican party. That and tricking everyone into thinking they will be billionaires some day.
 
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