Which Version of Legalization Do You Prefer? Please Read Propositions And Then Vote!

Which legalization proposition do you prefer?

  • Proposition A

    Votes: 8 44.4%
  • Proposition B

    Votes: 10 55.6%

  • Total voters
    18

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
looks like a tie:clap:....lol
:)

It'll probably stay that way or pretty close either way.

I would love to live in a world where Ernest's proposal worked out (except for the part where the cops are informed of all personal grows ofc) and voters would support unlimited growing and legalized black market sales while corporate America just decided to leave this 15 billion dollar per year market alone.

That would be just great. If we all lived in utopia that would be the perfect law. But unfortunately we do have to consider the practical realities of American life when thinking about legalization.
 

Ernst

Well-Known Member
How are you going to stop illegal grow ops with a law?

Only when it costs more to produce Cannabis then it fetches in the market will illegal grow ops go away.

Remember also that California votes no on Commerce.

So Everyone are you in California or not?

Dan your turn.. What Part of the State are you in?
 

Ernst

Well-Known Member
So far the control poll I posted in parallel shows the results of most favor for the people first.

This is a tie here and it has no actual statistical information to help us except your list of who voted for what.

What are you doing with the list of people and how they voted Dan?

You people will notice I don't select the report the names of who voted and how they voted in my polls. I am concerned with statistical results rather than political data.

Kind of interesting that Dan and another poller do.

Just asking a question.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
How are you going to stop illegal grow ops with a law
I'm not. I have no intention to do so. In fact what I proposed makes illegal grow ops harder to stop since it bans law enforcement communication.

I'm not advocating additional enforcement against the black market. No reason to IMO. If we legalize sales the black market will sort it self out.

Why would people want to risk getting sent to prison when they can do the same thing and not have that risk?

Only when it costs more to produce Cannabis then it fetches in the market will illegal grow ops go away.
Or when you give those who grow illegal a reasonably simple way of growing legally. What I proposed does that.

Remember also that California votes no on Commerce.
No, they didn't. Nothing in your proposal stops commerce either. It just allows corporate America to write the commerce law and control commercial cannabis in California.

And that is the real thing Californians voted no one. Corporate monopolies, not small businesses.

So Everyone California of not?

Dan your turn.. What Part of the State are you in?
I'm pretty nomadic.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
So far the control poll I posted in parallel shows the results of most favor for the people first.
And the other poll I posted says that people would rather have cannabis sales as part of a legalization ballot measure rather than have corporate America write the rules like you support.

What are you doing with the list of people and how they voted Dan?
I don't even know how to access that information and even if I did I would be respecting the sanctity of the voting booth.

You people will notice I don't select the report the names of who voted and how they voted in my polls. I am concerned with statistical results rather than political data.

Kind of interesting that Dan and another poller do.
Now you're outright lying again Ernest. If your arguments were really that strong you wouldn't need to be dishonest to convince people to side with you.

Have some integrity.
 

Ernst

Well-Known Member
Bans what? Law enforcement communication? That is a riot. The Federal government will not go quietly into that good night.

You are all about making money. That's it.

Oh and by the way my second poll has more options and it is smoking this one.
Sounds like this contest is a bad idea.

Lets say you win this contest. How will you convince all of Stanislaus county to vote yes and all the other counties that voted no to vote yes?

Remember win or lose California votes no on Cannabis commerce.

How does your contest change that?
 

Ernst

Well-Known Member
Isn't the idea that we don't need to fear the police if it is legal for us?

You still have us fighting the police. By the way even you post man has to report if you have a garden. That wont change.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Bans what? Law enforcement communication? That is a riot. The Federal government will not go quietly into that good night.
Why is that a riot? They are the feds, not the Iraqi republican guard. They may not go quietly into the night, but they couldn't convict people based on information they got from local law enforcement or the case would be thrown out. Why is that amusing? I'm sure it wouldn't be amusing if you were the one on trial.

Lets say you win this contest. How will you convince all of Stanislaus county to vote yes and all the other counties that voted no to vote yes?
As clearly laid out in my proposal, supporting legalization would mean supporting funding for local schools. That will not only get the vote of some non-voters but it gives a reason for communities to support local collectives.

It's a win-win for everyone.

Under your proposal everyone besides growers gets a big "fuck you". That's unnecessarily combative considering you need the votes of other people besides growers to pass a state law.

I don't see why we can't have a form of legalization that helps everyone and creates relationships. We don't have to piss off non-smokers. In fact we need to convince them to support us. Telling them it'll be legal to throw up a 40light commercial grow house next door to them and not giving them incentives doesn't bring people together.

Remember win or lose California votes no on Cannabis commerce.
propaganda is really unnecessary here Ernest. This is informal polling with no real consequences. Like I said, if what you are saying was really that good you wouldn't need to resort to deception to convince people.
 

Ernst

Well-Known Member
Well I am now chatting on two other sites so I will check back tomorrow.

I actually feel for you. I hope you keep your 6 to 7 count for B high.. Enjoy.

The main thing is you are thinking.. That we are all thinking.

Be well..
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Isn't the idea that we don't need to fear the police if it is legal for us?

You still have us fighting the police. By the way even you post man has to report if you have a garden. That wont change.
I don't trust the police. I'll keep having that attitude until they prove they can be trusted. I know better.

The last thing I want is to apply for a permit to grow for personal use so the cops can come over and inspect my grow. I'm just not that trusting of police officers.

I understand they have hard jobs, are under a lot of pressure, and all that good stuff. But to trust cops to come over your house to check out your grow is foolish.
 

DelSlow

Well-Known Member
Ernst, I do not live in California. I was born in Hawaii, but not living there now. While I realize the initiative will only be for California (if it gets on the ballot) I don't think this is a California-only issue. Cali got the ball rolling with mmj, and then other states followed. Good or bad, states follow each other. There seems to be an anti-mmj feeling in the country (could just be me) but I think there were quite a few raids in multiple states a few weeks ago? And then I read about Montana trying to repeal their mmj laws (WTF :wall: )

Anyway, I'm rambling now. We are all intelligent individuals who just want to grow/smoke/sell cannabis without being fucked by Uncle Sam. But we all have to give a little to get a little. There are more people than just us potheads and the world doesn't revolve around us (even though we all know us stoners are the most intelligent, most cool, most hungry folks)

I'm pretty sure you and your cool kitty can get by with the small amount of 8 pounds for personal use. Very nice cat btw.
 

DelSlow

Well-Known Member
Oh and I think you guys have it pretty good in Cali. They don't tax medical sales do they? Well, Hawaii is currently trying to get dispensaries passed. 20k for a dispensary license, 10k for a growing license, 10k for an edibles license. All sales would be taxed 30%.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Oh and I think you guys have it pretty good in Cali. They don't tax medical sales do they?
There is no state tax, but taxing is legal at the local level. Some counties do, some don't.

Well, Hawaii is currently trying to get dispensaries passed. 20k for a dispensary license, 10k for a growing license, 10k for an edibles license. All sales would be taxed 30%.
Sounds harsh. Totally worth it though. Hustle them elbows and you can get it! That fee will pay for itself easy.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
I actually feel for you. I hope you keep your 6 to 7 count for B high.. Enjoy.
You're missing the point. It isn't about who wins or loses. Depending on who decided to click on the thread it could just as easily be 8-6 in favor of your proposal. The fact that my proposal is slightly ahead isn't important.

The point is that people aren't against cannabis being sold in stores. When they voted against prop 19 they weren't voting against people earning a living off of growing and selling cannabis. What they were against was corporate monopolies, gigantic pot factories where bud are treated as manufactured products instead of flowers.

What you should be getting out of this isn't who's "winning". It's that the presumption that people are voting against legalization because it allows for stores where cannabis is sold is false. When you say "people voted against cannabis commerce", you're wrong. That isn't what they were voting against and I think this thread demonstrates that.

If what you were saying about people voting against cannabis legalization because it contained commerce law, you'd have people objecting to it right here. But no one other than yourself is objecting to it.

People actually care about the details of cannabis law. It isn't as simple as you're trying to make it. Give people a little credit. They are capable of understanding the details of a ballot initiative and will vote accordingly.

Simply spouting off one liners like "we need cannabis freedom, but business!" isn't enough. It's not enough to spout off things in soundbite form. You have to have well thought out positions and consider what's best for everyone, not just you.

Like it or not dispensaries are now an important part of the legalization movement. By alienating them you're alienating the most well funding group of legalization supporters in the state. To pass a ballot initiative, you need the funding and organization they can provide.

By dismissing commerce you're only hurting your cause. If we really want legalization it has to be done by bringing people together, not by polarizing them. What you support is polarizing. You should be thinking about how you can bring people together instead fighting to get what you want and ignore what everyone else wants.
 

DelSlow

Well-Known Member
me too. Kapiolani medical center. Moved to the mainland before Jr High though.
Right on. Same hospital as my brother. I lived in Hawaii my whole life, up until a month ago. Not gonna get into details but I'm currently in the south. I get a lot of weird looks from these haoles. Being brown, long hair, unshaven, slant eyes (I don't really look like anyone here lmao)

Let's just say I'm hoping to get home soon :leaf:
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Right on. Same hospital as my brother. I lived in Hawaii my whole life, up until a month ago. Not gonna get into details but I'm currently in the south. I get a lot of weird looks from these haoles. Being brown, long hair, unshaven, slant eyes (I don't really look like anyone here lmao)

Let's just say I'm hoping to get home soon :leaf:
Took me a while to get used to the cold rain, always wearing shoes, shitty fruit, etc. I still can't live too far away from the ocean. It's like reverse island fever.
 

DelSlow

Well-Known Member
I think people voted down prop 19 because of the monopolies that would have been created, the new laws created (jail time for older kids smoking with younger kids), and the insanely low amount of 1 ounce. I am a horrible grower, but give me a 5x5 and I will def. pull more than 1 ounce.
 

DelSlow

Well-Known Member
Took me a while to get used to the cold rain, always wearing shoes, shitty fruit, etc. I still can't live too far away from the ocean. It's like reverse island fever.
You can take the boy from the island, but not the island from the boy.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
I think people voted down prop 19 because of the monopolies that would have been created, the new laws created (jail time for older kids smoking with younger kids), and the insanely low amount of 1 ounce. I am a horrible grower, but give me a 5x5 and I will def. pull more than 1 ounce.
There were a lot of mistakes in it with the limitations and the confusing language. I doubt the average non-smoker knows the difference between growing 25sq ft or 100sq ft, so there is no reason to have such a strict limit. Same with the 1z limit.

Also people weren't even sure if it reduced medical limits on growing/possessing. It should have been more clear and less rigged for big business.
 
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